Building NAA for HQplayer

[dekipeki]

Hello, I would like to connect my powerful computer running windows 10 , roon bridge and hqplayer in room A to my standard windows 10 computer in room B connected to my dac and amp and also running Roon with my library on an attached ssd drive

 

The 2 computers are physicaly connected with etjernet cable to the same internal network powered by orbi netgear repeaters (wifi 6)

 

I just downloaded naa for windows and run it with admin on computer in room A

I launched naa on computer B with dac on and connected with usb cable

 

Well in room B I launched hqplayer but it cant find naa endoint in settings ...

 

On computer in room A I can see the attached screen in cmd line

 

It is not working...

 

How is it possible to makenit work in my config ?

 

I deactivated the windows firewall and didnt help. Even the antivirus didnt help either. Thank you so much if you can help ! I cannoct connect computer A to B with etjernet cable, they are too far apart... :-(

 

Deki

[dekipeki]

Many Thanks !!!

 

Yes Networkaudiod running on the dac side of the moon/system, with it's ASIO driver installed (sorry for the confusing initial description)

 

In my case. the problem should be the Bridge function. (I will test it this evening)

 

You are correct I wont need the Bridge function anymore as I would be able to play directly from roon to the hqplayer. Just in case is there a way to deactivate Roon Bridge (other than becoming a process killer) or should I uninstall it from my computer ?

 

Problem 2

In room A, I have another Dac (marantz hd dac 1) with it's asio driver installed and connected with USB to the powerful computer running hqplayer and have a strange behavior: when I power my DAC Hqplayer won't connect to the asio driver of the dac.

 

I always need to connect the Wasapi Driver first (limited to 192K)  through hqplayer setup to be able to then reset it to the Asio driver (going up to DSD 128). As if the activation of the Wasapi driver "wakes up" the Asio driver saying "hey Asio you have to wake up ! ":-)

 

Did you ever hear about/encopunter such an issue ? It is not specific to hqplayer I think, as Roon by itself (Roon bridge in my case) says that it can't get it's hand on the asio driver ...

 

I didn't have this problem with my previous computer, it is when I changed my computer for a powerfull NUC that this issue appeared first ...

 

If I run the Qobuz app and select Wasapi driver for output it also seems to wake up the asio driver and plays (of course resolution is limited to 192K)

 

Maybe you have an insight on this behaviour ?

 

Have a nice day !

 

Deki

[dekipeki]

No recent updates to the driver from marantz, I already reinstalled it to no avail, in anycase I have a workaround by engaging the wasapi driver first.

 

I guess that maybe I have too many drivers: questyle cma 12, ifiAudio GoldBar, RMe fireface UC, marantz, Sony pha3 ... I will try to remove the unuaed ones.

 

On the NAA front: 

 

1) I stopped Roon bridge on computer A running hqplayer.

 

2) Then I launched again networkaudiod on Computer B connected to my Questyle Dac (connection OK)

 

3) Then I lauched hqplayer on computer A and tried to set up connexion to naa on computer B, but when I choose NAA I can see no device avalaible ...

 

I am stuck and cant use the naa function. :-(

 

5) I also stopped the windows antivirus on both computers but with no positive result... 

 

what could I try more ?

 

Maybee boot the NAA image from a usb key on computer B and move Roon core to computer A. But I guess it is not optimal to run Roon and hqplayer on the same computer even if it is powerful ?

 

Any idea or help I would appreciate very much.

 

Thanx

 

 

[dekipeki]

15 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I have Marantz HD DAC 1 as well, but I don't even remember anymore if I have ever tried it's ASIO driver (or the device with Windows in general). Have they made any updates to the driver recently? Maybe some Windows update has messed it up. You can also try to reinstall the driver. Since Windows now comes with UAC2 driver (since Windows 10 update), it sometimes "steals" the DAC first before the DAC's own driver is loaded. When that happens, ASIO driver naturally doesn't work.

 

It works faultless nowadays with Linux though. Initially it took some time to gain native DSD support on Linux.

 

I found a workaround for this problem, in fact it was Roon Bridge "stealing" the Asio Output. Just by deactivating Bridge it solves the problem and I can directly access to the asio driver from hqplayer after powering the dac. But well if I want to use the Bridge functionality to play directly on the DAC I still have to perform the older workaround by connecting the Wasapi Driver and then switching back to Asio ...

[dekipeki]

Ok thank you I should have known, thank you Miska ! The problem with the Asio driver is now solved ! :-)

[dekipeki]

On 4/17/2023 at 10:37 PM, Miska said:

 

The DAC in question has ASIO driver? If not, you need to change networkaudiod's backend to WASAPI by modifying the startup .bat

 

Either computer has more than one network interface enabled? Please see Control Panel -> Network -> Manage Network Interfaces

 

Also check that network type for both machines is "internal network" instead of "public network". Otherwise firewall would be blocking traffic.

 

 

Typically NAA is a low power device without anything else running than NAA. I would run Roon on the same machine as HQPlayer rather than on the same machine with NAA.

 

You could just try NAA OS and/or HQPlayer OS on your NAA machine first, without moving any Roon things just to see if it works that way or not.

 

I just tried the NAA boot image. I used the x64-ramfs latest image.

 

First I had to disable secure boot to be able to boot from the usb media.

 

Then the boot from the flash drive seemed like it was successful but stopped at a login request

(1st image beelow)

 

When turning the dac on or off nothing happened on the screen (it stayed on login) but I was able to see the naa on the other computer in the "Output Devices Settings" screen when selecting the NetworkAudioAdapter backend setup but it was not referenced as usb port, ... so I dont know if that would work ?

 

When I tried booting the flash drive on another machine, it seemed more successfull because when I turned my dac on and off the system reacted immediately notifying me the dac was connected and disconnected (2nd image beelow)

 

What could be the problem on the first machine ? (An elitedesk HP usff) while the successfull one is an Intel NUC 11

 

Thanx

 

Deki

 

[dekipeki]

In the meantime I solved my problems thanks to your help. In fact when I booted the naa image the usb was disconnected so it was normal that there would be no connexion. After correctly connecting the usb cable, I was able to play to the NAA usb connexion from the more powerfull pc to the naa. 

 

Of course that wasn't without problems of its own , as I am experiencing pauses in the music but I imagine it is a network issue... I will try to solve it later ...

 

Now I have migrated my roon library to the most powerfull pc and it works flawlessly in pair with hqplayer or in standalone. I can play directly from Roon directly to my dac or through hqplayer to my dac.

 

I also installed Bridge on the Old machine in case I want to play music without hqplayer ...

 

Thank you very much for taking time for answering my questions ! :-)

 

I was wondering if there could be a gain by flashing the naa image on a usb 3 flash drive rather than on a usb 2 one (as I did) ? 

[dekipeki]

Thank you for the insight I just ordered those a sandisk 32gb extreme pro and a digitus card reader with aluminium casing :-)

 

I will share my experience with those !

 

What could be the reason for the repeated pauses while listening on the naa side ? (obviously some network related stuff) what should I look for to troubleshoot and improve that ? 

[dekipeki]

Hello Miska ! Here is my network config ...

[dekipeki]

On 4/23/2023 at 12:36 AM, Miska said:

 

This is pretty straightforward and should work fine as such.

 

Are the dropouts frequent/systematic? Or more randomly spaced? How frequent?

 

WiFi can be unpredictable at times, especially depending on nearby neighbourhood. But then there can be other aspects as well in high speed network, such as as flow control issues.

 

It is also beneficial to check through locally connected DAC with the same settings, that speed of the HQPlayer computer is not the limiting factor. Other tasks (such as Roon), running on the same machine as HQPlayer can also make a difference.

 

 

Thank you Miska ! :-)

 

The phenomenon I experience is the following, when playing a song from Room2 and listening with NAA usb stick in Room 3 where my dac is, from time to time but like 2-3 times in a song the playback stops lets'say at 1:03 and there is no sound for 3 seconds and then the song starts again at 1:06, it is to say like the song is conituously playing but I can't hear it for 3 seconds in Room 3.

 

This happens on songs that are on the SDD in "Room 2" and when playing thru hqplayer (I use android hqplayerd control app v4) or playing thru Roon content that is on qobuz. By the way, It is such a pitty that the hqplayer app doesn't allow Qobuz access, in that case I wouldn't need Roon. In fact I mostly use Roon because it is simple to integrate Parmetric Eq's for my different headphones.

 

The situation was better when I inserted a router that has flow control enabled (the famous buffalo BS GS2008)

I also ried to play with the buffer time in hqplayer settings, putting it too high a value (250ms) had not the desired effect on the contrary, 100ms looked like the safest bet...

 

Another thing that I experienced is when I installed a VPN software I was not able anymore to see the NAA in "Room 3" from hqplayer in Room 2- The VPN software wasn't active but it was running in the background. After uninstalling it I could see the NAA again ...

 

Well in the meantime I had also installed a torrenting app (popcorn time) and uninstalled it too, so I dont know which one of those solved the problem, but I have read that it was known that VPN software could affect NAA access ? Maybe I will try installing one after another to check wich one of those is the culprist.

 

Have a nice day enjoying good music ! :-)

 

Deki

[dekipeki]

By the way, It is such a pitty that the hqplayer app doesn't allow Qobuz access, in that case I wouldn't need Roon. In fact I mostly use Roon because it is simple to integrate Parmetric Eq's for my different headphones.

What do you mean? HQPlayer does support Qobuz natively.

 

Hello Miska !

 

I was talking of the hqplayer control v4 android app. Not the standard hqplayer client app that is installed with hqplayer... of course being in another room than hqplayer wont allow me selecting and playing the desired songs on my NAA usb flash endpoint using the standard hqplayer client.

 

Mainly I use Roon for this purpose but you told me it is better not, because it could be part of the dropouts I am experiencing.

 

So I tried to use the android control app v4, it worked but that app wont connect to qobuz so it cant replace Roon in that aspect.

 

I will try diminishing the the time to 10ms. I wrongly thought you needed to expand it when experiencing dropouts ... surely that will help !

 

Thank you

 

 

[dekipeki]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That is a third party control app, I cannot comment much about what it does or doesn't support. That is up to Ales to decide.

 

 

Of course it allows you to do precisely that.

 

But I would need another computer with hqplayer client installed that would be in the listening room ? 

 

Room 2: big boss PC with hqplayer running and connected to naa in Room 3

 

Room 3: little pc running naa from usb flash drive connected to usb dac and my headphoned (so as it is used to run Naa from flashdrive I cannot run hqplayer client on it)

 

How do I do to control the music from Room 3, l need another PC running hqplayer client ?

[dekipeki]

10 minutes ago, bogi said:

For HQPlayer Client you need a computer or tablet with Windows, macOS or Linux OS.

 

HQPDcontrol can run on Android or iOS.

 

HQPWV you can run on any device incl. phones which contains web browser. Server part could then run on your HQPlayer computer. I see it was not updated 2 years.

 

Only HQPlayer Client of the above three supports Qobuz natively.

 

There is also a possibility to use a Remote Desktop or VNC type of app on your phone to remote control HQPlayer Client running on HQPlayer computer.

 

If you run HQPlayer Embedded then you can use any UPnP Control Point, including mobile apps like mConnect Player or BubbleUPnP. These mobile apps also support streaming from Qobuz, Deezer and maybe more.

Thank you so much @bogi for giving this very extensive feedback, I appreciate it very much. Thanks to your feedback I can see all the alternatived and for the moment I ended by using a remote dektop dektop app as you suggested. :-)

 

Dekipeki

[dekipeki]

21 hours ago, Miska said:

 

What do you mean? HQPlayer does support Qobuz natively.

 

 

Yes, having proper 802.3x flow control is pretty much mandatory. Otherwise there is too much packet loss and resends.

 

 

You should normally leave it default. If the network is  challenging, using lower values like 10 ms may help.

 

 

Yes, that is quite usual, as the VPN has default route or higher priority (lower metric) and discovery multicasts end up there instead of local network.

 

Thank you @Miska The reduction to 10ms proved to be the right move, now I am listening with no dropouts at all enjoying hqplayer.

 

Thank you very much fomucaking time to reply to my questions and to give me your insight. :-)