HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[musicjunkie917]

So I have a Holo Audio May KTE DAC coming soon. I currently use HQPlayer Embedded on a sonicTransporter i9 and an ultraRendu acting as an NAA. The May will support up to PCM 1.536MHz. The ultraRendu is limited to PCM 768kHz. 

 

With my old DAC, I was using HQPlayer to upsample both PCM and DSD to DSD256 (poly-sinc-ext2, ASDM7ECv2). Is that a good idea with the May KTE? Or does upsampling all PCM to PCM 705.6kHz/768kHz sound better? Or, to get the best sound out of PCM, do I really want a new endpoint that supports up to PCM 1.536MHz?

 

Thanks!

[musicjunkie917]

1 hour ago, luisma said:

You need to decide by yourself what you like best if PCM or SDM, try both.

For max PCM I would do any endpoint in which you can load Jussi NAA latest image, don't know if you can load that in the UR but his image is fantastic

 

 

I will certainly listen for myself. But, I don't have an NAA that can do PCM 1.536MHz so I can't listen to that for myself. Also, my old DAC was not a NOS DAC and accepted PCM up to 384kHz only. It did its own internal upsampling with PCM and DSD. That's why I was soliciting opinions.

 

The ultraRendu already uses a minimal OS so I don't suspect that running Jussi's NAA image, even if it were possible, would improve sound quality.

 

So, anyone with opinions of upsampling everything to DSD versus upsampling DSD to DSD256 and PCM to PCM 768kHz and PCM to PCM 1.536MHz, please post!

[musicjunkie917]

8 minutes ago, Bertel said:

I should also note that, like you, I upsample everything to DSD256 (also with poly-sinc-ext2 and ASDM7ECv2) because as Jussi showed in his measurements that‘s the sweet spot of Spring/May. For me this sounds excellent, no need to change anything.

 

 Thank you for the replies!

 

Where does Jussi show these measurements?

[musicjunkie917]

20 minutes ago, Bertel said:

I think that's where he started:

 

Awesome! Thank you! Thank gives me a lot of good information with which to start my testing.

 

I will set the DAC bits to 20.

 

I know that Jussi normally says that you want to set the max volume to -3dBFS. I set mine to -6 as my Thriller SACD would increase the limit count when set at -3. With the May being 6 dB quieter with SDM compared to PCM, do I still need to adjust the max volume to -3 or -6? I am not sure the two are related....

[musicjunkie917]

@luisma

 

Like I said, I don't think the ultraRendu will work with Jussi's images...I could be wrong though! I think I will email Jussi and see what he thinks. Since the ultraRendu boots off of a MicroSD card, it might just work. 

 

But, it appears that does not matter. I assumed the PCM and DSD rate limits listed on the Sonore web site were hardware limits. I did not know that those limits were based on what Sonore could test and not what should work. It's nice to see that the ultraRendu should support both DSD1024 and PCM 1.536 MHz based on other user's usage data.

 

I really do appreciate getting feedback from others on what they like and why. It give me ideas on where to start with my evaluations.

 

Initially, I will setup my system to play PCM as PCM and DSD as DSD while burning in the DAC. I want both the R2R ladder and the DSD resistor network hardware to be exercised and burned in so I can fairly evaluate both when it comes time to do critical listening. I know the May has a reputation for needing many hundreds of hours of use before it is fully burned in.

 

During burn-in, I will listen to PCM upsampled to 1.536 MHz using LNS15 and poly-sinc-ext2 and DSD upsampled to DSD256 using ASDM7ECv2 and poly-sinc-ext2. I'll play with a several different filters for both PCM and DSD.

 

I don't do well with quick A/B testing. I don't have a problem hearing differences. But, I can't always say with certainty that A is better or worse than B. I like to listen over a period of several days to a week. This means I will have many enjoyable hours of listening while I figure out what I like best.

 

Thanks!

[musicjunkie917]

3 hours ago, 1laraz said:

Are you saying that the new USB card is inferior to the old one due to increased noise from the Altera chip? Ho can the the clean 5V supply from the source-end help, if it will still be polluted by Altera chip?

 

I would not worry about that. This what Tim from Kitsune said about the new card:

 

"Better sound quality and far better support for dsd1024 and pcm1.536mhz."

[musicjunkie917]

The shield and the pin 4 ground wire are not necessarily connected. Most cables I have seen have the shield connected to metal casing of the connectors and a separate wire connection pin 4 at either end. I have not seen pin 4 connected to the shield wire or the metal casing on either end.

[musicjunkie917]

14 minutes ago, Franzschubert said:

That's fast.  I was told 4-5 weeks just to build the unit.  

 

I think he is talking about the USB card......not the DAC.

[musicjunkie917]

4 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

I don't think holo ever said the new usb card sounds better. 

 

Tim from Kitsune said this:

 

"Better sound quality and far better support for dsd1024 and pcm1.536mhz."

 

The first three words of that quote would suggest the new card sounds better. Of course, that is not anyone from Holo Audio in China...but, Tim does represent them.

[musicjunkie917]

My May KTE shipped today....I should have it by Wednesday!

[musicjunkie917]

15 minutes ago, TJHUB said:

When did you order it?

 

November 18....

[musicjunkie917]

On 12/20/2021 at 12:28 PM, JohnDonaldson said:

Has anyone got a Rendu working correctly with a May at 1.535mhz? I am getting highly distorted sound using my opticalRendu?

 

On 12/20/2021 at 12:59 PM, Bertel said:

I had the Holo May KTE running at 1.536MHz with the Signature Rendu, if that counts, without any issues

 

I just tried an ultraRendu at 1.536MHz with my new May KTE over USB and it has issues.....regular dropouts...and it is not because of a lack of processing power. I am using HQPlayer Embedded installed on a sonicTransporter i9. 768KHz works just fine.

 

Has anyone had success with an ultraRendu at 1.536MHz?

[musicjunkie917]

So, the May plays DSD at a lower sound level than PCM. Has anyone come up with a "PCM gain compensation" number that makes PCM and DSD play at the same sound level?

[musicjunkie917]

6 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

Do you have the latest USB card?

 

It's a brand new May KTE. Yes, I have the new card.....

[musicjunkie917]

17 hours ago, musicjunkie917 said:

So, the May plays DSD at a lower sound level than PCM. Has anyone come up with a "PCM gain compensation" number that makes PCM and DSD play at the same sound level?

-6 seems to be just about perfect….

[musicjunkie917]

7 hours ago, JohnDonaldson said:

To stop my dropouts, I changed Buffer Time for my opticalRendu from Default to 100 ms in HQPlayer Settings. Other values may also work.

 

I tried that and it made things worse. I suspect the opticalRendu has more capable hardware and is able to do 1.536MHz while the ultraRendo cannot. 

[musicjunkie917]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

-6 dB is the accurate figure. Also documented in HQPlayer manual...

 

Thanks, Jussi. 
 

I really enjoyed using HQPlayer with my old DAC, the PS Audio DirectStream. But, I didn’t understand how phenomenal it is until I got my May KTE. Impressive. Very impressive!

[musicjunkie917]

Now that I have over 400 hours on the May KTE, I decided it was time to compare the USB and I2S inputs to each other. My May KTE has the newest USB module. Note that I am using a sonicTransporter i9, an ultraRendu, a Matrix SPDIF 2, and HQPlayer Embedded. 
 

After a couple hours of comparative listening, I think the USB and I2S inputs sound virtually the same. If anything, I might like the USB input ever so slightly better. It’s so close I can say that I would be perfectly happy listening to either.

 

I noticed no improvement in sound stage depth, width, height, instrument and voice isolation or location when going from USB to I2S. I mention this because I find it hard to believe that the old USB module could be better than the new USB module as the new USB module is every bit as good as I2S in regards to the sound stage. 
 

Also, I am preferring all PCM and DSD content upsampled to DSD256 using the ASDM7ECv2 modulator and poly-sinc-ext2 filter. 

[musicjunkie917]

46 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

With the PLL on I find the same. All the digital inputs sound indistinguishable

Yes, I had the PLL on. I did not have occasion to test the other ports as I need the bandwidth that only USB and I2S provide. 

 

46 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

Nice that there's no need to fuss/worry about the digital source.

Yes, that is nice. Now I can sell the Matrix and it’s LPS and buy more music or something nice for the wife!

[musicjunkie917]

36 minutes ago, mrwiggles said:

Fellow MAY owners: having a problem with my new streaming setup using the MAY. I have a Bluesound Node connected to the MAY’s COAX input so my wife and I can stream Apple Music for music exploration. However, when we start a song the MAY goes into a long ‘LOCKING’ process and we lose much of the beginning of the first song (seems like it takes upwards of 10-15 sec). Any song after that in a playlist streams fine. But starting and stopping music results in this long wait for the MAY to grab the stream. Any suggestions to resolve this? I also have an Intel NUC connected via USB for Roon/HQPlayer streaming and it locks and starts immediately.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

 

Turn off the PLL.....

[musicjunkie917]

Regardless of what you do, you still want the DAC bits set to 20 if you send PCM to the May.

[musicjunkie917]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

While we at Sonore have not been able to test this ourselves, multiple users on this thread have reported that PCM streaming at 1.5 MHz works with the Sonore Rendu models and the new USB interface in the May, (and I would; suspect in the current models of the Spring 3 which have the latest USB interface, right Holo Audio users?)-so you should be fine with a Sonore Rendu.

I assume you would be using HQPlayer, so I would also recommend you try DSD 256.  

I have been unable to get the ultraRendu to work at 1.5 MHz with my May KTE and it has the latest USB module. I bought my ultraRendu a long time ago so It is not the newer version that is sold now. 

[musicjunkie917]

5 hours ago, ted_b said:

First let me say I love Sonore products, Jesus, Barrows and the rest of the team.  I'm sure you can get them to help you figure it out.

 

I love the SGC and Sonore stuff. The products are well designed, work, and the support has always been great. I would much prefer to stay with the ultraRendu I have. Currently, I actually prefer the May KTE being fed PCM and DSD upsampled to DSD256. The ultraRendu handles that beautifully. But, I would certainly like to be able to listen to PCM at 1.5 MHz any time I feel like it.

 

I am not sure what Sonore can do....@barrows has said that PCM at 1.5 MHz is untested so it is unsupported.

 

5 hours ago, ted_b said:

Another option, as I've posted ad nauseum, is to plop down $500ish total and buy an Intel Fitlet2 (as your HQPlayer NAA running HQP OS with the core HQPlayer turned off) with optical SFP board, a Mikrotik switch (to replace whatever you have), a couple of SFPs on Ebay, and whatever length of fiber you need from switch to fitlet2...and voila, you have 32fs PCM via an HQPlayer NAA with a great black background.

 

I don't think I want to do the optical thing. I am wired Cat6e through my house and I don't want to stick a switch next to my audio gear. I doubt the Fitlet2 is as quiet as an ultraRendu.....and I like how easy the ultraRendu is to manage. But, that may be my only viable options. That or the Up Board....

[musicjunkie917]

17 minutes ago, barrows said:

Do you have the new USB interface in your May?  My understanding from other users (we have not tested this internally) is that Rendu's do allow for PCM 1.5 MHz rates with the May with the latest USB interface.  I am certain that 1.5 MHz will not work with the previous USB interfaces on the May as those interfaces require an Intel based source.

 

Yes, I have the new USB interface......my ultraRendu reports this back:

 

Holo Audio UAC2.0 Gen2.1 Enhanc

 

I have an old ultraRendu and any time I select PCM 1.5 MHz, I get buzzing and noise and dropouts when playing.

[musicjunkie917]

27 minutes ago, barrows said:

So far we are aware that users have reported success with playing PCM 1.5 MHz to the Holo May, with the new USB interface (should also work with the new Spring 3 and new USB interface) via the Sonore Signature Rendu SEoptical, and the opticalRendu.  I am not aware of anyone having success with the ultraRendu, but that does not mean such is impossible.  If one has an ultraRendu and would like to test 1.5MHz playback, be sure to upgrade to the latest software using the v.1.8 SD card for a valid test.

Unfortunately, out of the 100s of DACs on the market, only a very, very few can even play these rates, so the testing of such is problematic for us.