Article: Dutch & Dutch 8c Loudspeaker Review

[firedog]

Another interesting and thorough review. I’d love to be able to hear a pair.

 

There was another comparison review of the Kiis and the 8c recently posted by a user in Australia who auditioned both in his home. His impressions were similar to yours, but his conclusion was the opposite. 

He preferred the bass of the 8c, but felt the mids and high end of the Kiis allowed him to hear detail better, especially when he sat 3-4 meters away. 

 

This could be a room related difference, or as Mitchco said, just a matter of taste. 

In any case, it is great that both speakers are on the market and give consumers a choice. Hopefully there will be more speakers of this type and maybe some that are more affordable. 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

Definitely a cutting edge product that flies in the face of the mix and match philosophy.  I suspect it will work best in the streaming mode if the source is digital as it avoids extra AD and DA conversions.  

If it is anything like the Kii, you may surprised how little difference that makes. The A/D/A conversion in the Kii, is transparent - or very close to it.  There are Kii owners using it with a turntable as the source and they say they are quite satisfied with the result. 

[firedog]

10 hours ago, joergchm said:

So many thanks for this stellar detailed review! I’m really tempted to give the 8c now a detailed „test run“ and compare to my Accuphase/Martin Logan combo....!

 

Do you know any way to control the volume of the 8cˋs with a „real“ remote control instead of the webinterface? It’s really hard to pitch a system to my wife without a real remote control ?

You'd need something like the Weiss INT203 or 202 (I'm not familiar with exactly the inputs/outputs needed for this and the 8c to match up, but that's the idea) that will transfer a signal and has a remote volume control. You should ask an 8c dealer what they recommend.

My guess is that you can find something in the pro audio world that will do the trick and not cost thousands. 
I'm with you, don't want software volume control.

[firedog]

6 minutes ago, H_Space said:

@mitchcoWould you trade your current rig for the D&Ds if you could?

I think I might need to sell off my entire inventory so I can buy these. 

I suggest you find a way to audition them and decide. I haven't heard them, but once I auditioned the Kii Three I sold my system and bought the Kiis.

[firedog]

29 minutes ago, hifi_swlon said:

Was there any reason Kii Threes were used as a main comparison, and not the Devialet Phantom Golds which I read your review of? I’m just curious since no one seems to compare the 8c to the Phantoms, yet your Phantom review was favourable and they’re quite a bit cheaper.  The Phantoms aren’t for me but just curious as there’s not much ‘pro’ feedback. 

 

Does anyone have more info on D&D plans to make a proper physical volume control? I’ve heard rumours but nothing solid. On paper these speakers are perfect for me and I’d love to demo a pair, but that would be a deal breaker for me in a home environment where there’s no mixing desk! Using an outboard DAC or digital volume control seems counter intuitive since the speaker has everything built in already. 

 

As a general question, are there custom stands and can they be fixed to the stands? I have a young child and would be worried about them getting knocked over and hurting someone or worse (or no doubt damaging the speaker)

I think no one compares them because everyone who has heard either the Kii or the 8C and the Phantoms says the Phantoms aren't in the same leaque, in terms of SQ....

As far as I know people who want a physical volume control or a remote - not software - volume control for the 8C are doing exactly what you suggested - buying an outboard box to add in to the setup. BTW, the same thing happens with the Kiis. If  you want a HW volume control or a HW remote - you buy the Kii Control. The difference is that the Kii Control is made to work with the Kii system and gives you all sorts of other advantages beyond volume. 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, asiano said:

Any thoughts on which speaker - Kii Three or Dutch & Dutch 8C - processes digital audio better?

 

My only use for either speaker is to stream digital audio files (Hi-Res FLAC, DSD, etc) via Roon and the processing capabilities of the speakers are an important consideration.

Depends what you mean by "processes digital audio better". Both speakers have that exact function as their central function. They both take a digital signal,use DSP,  convert it to analog, and output a DSP'd "cardoid" analog output with limited room interaction and time alignment of the driver signals to your ears.

Do you literally mean something about the "processing" or are you asking how they sound? Give us a better idea what you are asking.

[firedog]

1 hour ago, asiano said:

I apologize for not being clear.

 

I'm curious about which product has the better DAC and implementation as, at least for the Kii, the incoming format has to be converted since it accepts DSD and various PCM sample rates. I'm not even sure if that can be ascertained as everything is so tightly integrated in these products. With standalone DACs, even those with the same DAC, there tends to be a difference in sound.

Both products have specialized DACs and amps which are made specifically for them and don’t exist on their own. So your question doesn’t really apply. The only questions would be: do I like how they sound?; do I like how they sound when fed analog?; and do I prefer one to the other? 
Both speakers convert incoming formats - they have to in order to do all the DSP. Exactly how they do what they do is proprietary. I think you should care about the results, not the details of the process: if you knew some of the details of the process would that really tell you something about which one has a “better process” and which one sounds better? I don’t think so.

Audiophiles tend to latch on to such details as if they actually tell you something about the resulting SQ. They don’t. 

[firedog]

8 minutes ago, coot said:

Thanks Chris, but sadly Berkeley is is WAY above my pay scale. More exploration needed.

There are lots of converters of good quality starting at about $100 and going up to the price of the Berkeley. They also are often found on sale second hand. Even my $130 iFi DAC can function only as a USB to SPDIF if desired. No problem finding one if you look. If you need USB/AES those also exist. 

[firedog]

4 hours ago, mensink said:

With just some subtle EQ the two could be made to sound very similar on most program material - to the extent that I might not be able to distinguish them in a proper blind test.

I'd like to see the adjustments you'd make to each speaker to do that.😉 I appreciate you saying you might even be able to make the indistinguishable in a proper blind test. 

[firedog]

4 hours ago, anaudiopro said:

Your review just made it VERY difficult for me to decide on the 8c's or the Kii's. I am a mixing/mastering engineer. Would you favor one over the other for that task?

You don't have any ability to in store or home audition either one? There are definitely dealers who will give you a home audition. 

BTW, I'm sure you could't go wrong with either one. It's more a matter of which sound you prefer. 

[firedog]

8 hours ago, ralfs said:

 

Have you had a chance to listen to Kii Threes with BXT? I wonder if adding the BXT module would fix the "dry" sound.

I have no idea if we are talking about the same thing, but I give mine a slight boost (half a db) between about 100-400hz. I just think music sounds better that way. Not just through the Kiis.