Help: Need a DAC - USB or PCI Express card?

[joms]

Hi,

 

I am a bit new to this computer audio thing and I'd like to ask your suggestions/recommendations on some items.

 

Basically I have a powerful/fast 2009 PC and I want to put a good audio system in it. I will be using either .wav or lossless files to be played by my computer. For speakers I am thinking of getting the Audioengine 2 or 5 (unless you know of a better one in that price range). I am also looking into subs and my brother told me to get the velodyne impact 10 to pair with the audioengines. I'm not into that earth shattering bass. I like the one that blends in musically and can go down.

 

In this regard, I would like to add a good DAC to make my audio system perform a bit nicer as Ive read that the DAC in all computers suck.

 

By the way, I am used to listening to sweet and warm music (jazz/pop) on my father's audio system (Conrad Johnson / Jadis / B&W 801) so I would want something to that degree. Of course I know the sound quality of my computer won't go anywhere near it but I'd just like to point out that I'm more into Sound quality rather than gaming/etc. I'm more into sounds that are laid back, sweet, dark and the like. I'm also more into vocals than instruments. Although I love the punch of a soft and low bass.

 

To summarize:

 

1) Can you recommend a good DAC for around $200-$250

2) If you can recommend an alternative to the Audioengine with a price range of $200-$300

3) If you can recommend a good subwoofer for $200. I need the subwoofer to be small. (around 10" height). Are the Velodyne Impact10 good for music? My dad uses the B&W 801 and I love its bass.

 

So far I am looking into:

 

1) Musical Fidelity V-DAC

2) ASUS Xonar Essence STX soundcards

(If it is between this two, which would you choose?)

3) Nuforce Icon UDAC ? (read mixed reviews on this)

 

Thanks very much

 

[Tipper]

Hello joms.

Given you say deep bass isn’t so much of a priority might you not be better off forgetting about the sub and concentrating your recourses on better speakers?

You mentioned games so I’m assuming you’re looking to use your PC for more than just straight audio?

My feeling is that a sound card may give more versatility and higher specification for the money spent than an outboard Dac.

An outboard Dac tends to be the better option when you already have Hi Fi components and primarily want to listen to music.

There are quite a few competent Dacs in the price range you mention these days. Any particular reason you mention the V-Dac as opposed to the E-MU o4o4 or the basic HRT Music Streamer for example?

 

 

[det_wizard]

I think your best option is the ASUS Xonar as it’s very impressive for the money, although I herd it in an ITX based computer powered by a linear PSU - which really makes a difference to the sound.

 

[joms]

well, bass is not a priority but I still want it there so a subwoofer is still a must. Anyway what "better" speakers do you have in mind to replace the Audioengine? They are powered speakers right? I don't want to use an external amp as I don't have the space for it.

 

The reason I mentioned V-dacs as against the EMU/HRT is because I've read good reviews on it in amazon and in stereoreview. Are the EMU and HRT better than the VDAC? Or is there a general USB VDAC favorite in computeraudiophile?

 

[Tipper]

Right, no other Hi Fi would tend to push me towards on onboard sound card. The Asus STX has a very good reputation and I believe it’s in the Cash List (best choice) here at CA.

Despite all the Dac talk you can find here, onboard sound cards are quite capable of producing excellent sound if they are set up correctly.

 

Subwoofers; I have to be honest here and say I’ve not been very impressed with subs in general.

There are good Subs, but they need very careful matching to the main speakers, they tend to be fussy about where you put them, often difficult to successfully drive from a soundcard or the amps in the active speakers and the good ones tend to cost more than you want to spend.

 

Basically a sub needs to move a large volume of air to produce the low frequencies.

In general they fall into two categories:

a) Big box with short throw driver; the driver cone has a large area and can scoop a lot of air and therefore doesn’t need to move a great distance in a linear fashion to create a decent sized wave.

b) Smaller box with long throw driver; the coil in this type may move up to twice the linear distance as the short throw

 

The big box short throw variety seem to work out cheaper mainly because there are quite a few bass drivers that can be adapted for sub use in large enclosures. But, we are talking 10” to 14” cones here and obviously boxes that have the volume to make use of that kind of cone area are big.

You say you’re a bit tight on space. That means you need a physically small sub and that in turn means long throw which in turn means expensive.

Why?

The coil attached to the cone surrounds a pole. The smaller the gap between the inside of the coil and the outside of the pole the better; it’s normal a few thousands of an inch. As the coil travels up and down the pole in response to current, if it wobbles, it touches the pole and this makes a really horrid noise apart from anything else. A long throw driver may have to travel a couple of inches in as near to a perfectly linear motion as possible. Next consider that at the outside of the cone is the suspension and this is all that guides the cone and coil. To get all these parts, coil, cone and suspension to travel in a linear fashion while pushing against air pressure takes a lot of doing; exact suspension, stiff enough cones but still light enough to not require a huge amounts of power, etc, etc.

Sorry about the lecture

 

There are plenty of people who consider 70Hz to be adequate bass response. A number of the better quality speakers some of the contributors to this forum have don’t go much below this frequency and they find this fine to listen to.

Subs are great when you need bass in the range of 30Hz and below; above these kinds of frequencies I would suggest people are better off buying a pair of speakers that perform at this level.

May I suggest you find out what bass frequency is good enough for your needs before you decide a sub is a must.

So, if you forget about a sub, your budget is around $500 for a set of active speakers.

Q acoustic 2010 68Hz

Quad 11L 50Hz

Are two other suggestions you might want to consider.

Most of all, at least go and listen to a pair of whatever you consider buying.

 

 

[joms]

I see. Thanks for the reply. I'm now looking into both the speakers you've suggested.

 

In any case though, if i audition the front speakers and still determine that they lack some low-end (in short, i still decide to get a sub), how do I connect the sub to my system? Via the ASUS STX soundcard? (how?) or via the onboard soundcard of my motherboard? (does this still function side by side with the ASUS stx?).

 

The audioengine 2 doesnt have a bypass RCA out or a sub-out...`

 

check the image of the back of the audioengine 2:

http://audioengineusa.com/site/images/full6_a5.jpg

 

[joms]

After checking the speakers that you've mentioned, it indicated in their website that both of them, Q acoustic 2010 and Quad 11L, are not powered speakers. I need powered speakers as I don't have any more space for an amplifier and such.

 

Do you know of any "powered" bookshelf speaker that sounds better than the audioengine 2?

 

Thanks

 

[bigpapi007]

Depending on placement, I use nearfield active monitors, KRK Rokit 5 speakers. They approximately 2 feet from my head. I am using an old Angstrom 200 surround sound pre-processor which incorporates an excellent sounding dac. I connect from the computer with firewire to an M-Audio firewire to spdif converter. M-Audio also makes some excellent sounding speakers for computers. My subwoofer is a Martin-Logan Grotto that cost about $700. Or you can get a KRK 10 inch subwoofer for about $400, which I plan to do. The cheaper 'audiophile' subwoofers are not very good and should be avoided. Better to spend more on the speakers for better bass.

 

[Audio_ELF]

There is (or at least was) a powered version of the Quad 11L.

 

The best place to check out powered speakers if your local pro shop. A lot of companies make them but they are not well known amongst audiophiles.

 

Eloise

 

[bikemig]

I am very new to this as well and have a pretty similar set-up. I have a mac mini hooked up to my tv. The digital out from the tv goes to the mini. I like the nuforce icon a lot. I bought it because it was cheap and I wanted to try a dac out. It made a difference to the sound quality of my music (all of which is lossless). In any case, I think you want a dac with a volume control (which the nuforce has) since I do not believe you can control the volume from the computer once you go with a digital output. I also have the audioengine A5s and I very recently added a powered subwoofer that was on a blow out (klipsch ksw 10). The audioengines are excellent; I've been very happy with them. I have RCA cables going from the audioengines to the sub. I'm still playing with it but I have mixed feelings about the sub. It adds some good sound but getting it to work with my set-up has provided some issues. Thumbs up with the nuforce and audioengine A-5; jury still out on the sub.