Audio Grade Router and Switches in RMAF with SOtM

[plissken]

Deal lord. 

 

Research clock domain boundaries. You could put a 25Mhz unobtainium clock on NIC or router and it's not going to make an audible difference. 

 

Is the clock on the PCIe bus made of unobtanium? How about the clock driving the FSB (Front Side Bus) that the CPU and RAM adhere to? Is that made with unobtanium.

 

This TCXO is 100% bullshit for networking components. 

[plissken]

5 hours ago, d_elm said:

Read the first post and follow the links in the thread

 

 

An upgraded clock can make a difference if it is followed in the chain by good clocks.

 

And here is my response to the entire misunderstanding that is portrayed:

 

 

Q: What happens to the hyper accurate clock when I disconnected the cable and the music still played. 

[plissken]

26 minutes ago, ismewor said:

most of the audio folks saying power cord won't make a different. And look at it now.

 

And now it still doesn't... 

[plissken]

 

 

 

4 hours ago, d_elm said:

If a data stream stays in the digital domain then clock jitter is handled by the circuit design.  It is when the data stream is processed by a DAC the upstream handling can become important for the generated analog signal.  In the thread I linked to many people describe their findings.  One finding is that good upstream clocks make a difference but only if not followed by a bad clock.

 

All I see is a thread full of people that don't understand how buffered systems, clock domain boundaries, FiFo buffering works.

 

So if we use your assertion that it's cumulative clocks then what about all the clocks on the routers between here and www.tidal.com

 

Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address
  0                                           ########.cinci.rr.com [192.168.0.117]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  1    1ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  192.168.0.1
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  2    8ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  142.254.147.213
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  3    9ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  be63.lsvnkyfb01h.midwest.rr.com [74.128.8.17]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  4   13ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  be20.lsvqkydb01r.midwest.rr.com [65.29.31.24]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  5   25ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  be24.clevohek01r.midwest.rr.com [65.189.140.166]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  6   32ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  bu-ether17.vinnva0510w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.70]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  7   30ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  0.ae1.pr1.dca20.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.210]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  8   29ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  24.27.236.44
 

 

But yet I've read posts about how Tidal sounds just as good as playing a local file. 

 

I'll come out to anyone's setup and take a .wav file and make one copy local storage, another over a network and using foobar ABX plug in show you that this is 100% bullshit. 

 

I'll give you $2000 if you can hit 18/20  and if you can't just pay my travel expenses. 

[plissken]

The T/O XCO argument being forwarded is one of Jitter. Not leakage currents. 

[plissken]

7 minutes ago, marce said:

perhaps one of the main contributors to simultaneous switching noise (the main background noise of any microprocessor based system) is DDR memory, that's why DDR3 has spread spectrum ability.

 

I went into perfmon on a Windows 10 machine with almost everything that I could disable process wise, well disabled, I showed all the caching operations that was still going on.

 

There is just a ton of system activity.

 

Quote

The clocks on PC's are critical, the routing of the clocks is critical, changing one is not just plugging another clock in on the end of a piece of wire... The chances are the length of wire and possible return path discontinuity will add as many problems as it is supposed to solve. Why do we put clocks as close to the input pins as possible, shortest routing (except DDR3+ where the clock is the longest signal, but routed as a diff pair with minimum skew, 0.25mm), minimal vias, minimal impedance changes in the signal path... 

 

I pointed this out in another thread when they showed modified switches with a TXCO on a separate assembly with what looked to be about 16 inches of round trip lead wire. 

 

 

[plissken]

24 minutes ago, d_elm said:

Just a question, what happens to noise generated by the switch (or downstream FMC), either from power or clock ?  I hear it downstream in my DAC.

 

Years ago I took a TRS to XLR cable. On the XLR side I floated Ground (pin 1). You could hear mouse movement, HD access, Cache fill (using a RAM Disk). 

 

It was a system that was purposefully designed incompetently.  You should do the same thing with your DAC that I did with my cable: I fixed it. In my case it was to solder pin 1 backup. In your case it would most likely be a new DAC. 

[plissken]

Ok. Bye.

[plissken]

Bottom line is the OP asked a question and has gotten into a huff because the answers don't fit the preconceived answer they already had when they asked the question. 

[plissken]

Just let me know when you want to do this blind

[plissken]

12 hours ago, Special Snowflake said:

Well said. This is probably why Uptone uses a low jitter clock in the isoregen. Thousands of audiophiles can’t be wrong. 

 

BenchMark Audio showed this to be false. They wired up a 100 foot cable to their DAC, it was loaded with errors and the audio it was producing was pristine. In a hobby were a $2000 DAC is low cost for many it shows that this isn't hard to accomplish.

 

I can drive two DAC's concurrently. As long as they are a properly designed DAC I would like to to pick the one with the ISOR vs one with just a nice, short (my USB cable is 1.5 foot) cable. 

 

Yes, thousands of audiophiles can indeed be wrong. 

[plissken]

57 minutes ago, Special Snowflake said:

What about the theory that jitter gets “baked” into the audio? Even when the Ethernet clocks run at a different frequency than the audio clocks. And try not to burst any bubbles around here because when a grown man hears a change, that means there was a change. Audiophiles are the only species known to be immune to the power of suggestion. 

 

That theory is quite easily debunked. Let's see if people can figure out where the jitter in this video is introduced. 

 

 

 

[plissken]

1 minute ago, Special Snowflake said:

From what I hear 

 

Yep that's always suspect now. 

[plissken]

Just now, Special Snowflake said:

I don’t mean with my ears. I’m over 40 so my ears can’t be trusted. I only trust the ears from the under 20 crowd. 

 

You have my condolences. On which part I'll leave to you. 

[plissken]

8 minutes ago, Special Snowflake said:

Yes hard to argue with hard data:

 

 

 

Having 20Khz hearing isn't the same as knowing what to listen for. Why don't you show me all the hard data you have on 20 year old people not liking Benchmark vs something else. 

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Special Snowflake said:

This data shows a 20 year old could poke the tweeters out in their speakers if they want to hear on par with a 60 year old. 

 

Very few 20 year olds are buying separates at all. This is all Benchmark makes. That’s a dying boomer era trend. 

 

Since a lot of speakers will hand over duties to the tweeter in the 2500-3500 Khz range and the bulk of content is typically under 12Khz....

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Special Snowflake said:

 Very few 20 year olds are buying separates at all. This is all Benchmark makes. That’s a dying boomer era trend. 

 

Very few 20 year old's purchase much high end of anything... Here's the thing: They don't stay broke and in their early 20's forever.

[plissken]

2 hours ago, Special Snowflake said:

Yeah and by the time they have any money to spend, the only place you’ll find separates is at antique shops. 

 

Be sure to let all the players in this space know this and make sure to turn the lights off this industry on your way out.

 

[plissken]

19 minutes ago, ismewor said:

They are the people who purchase DAP and headphone for sure. and they is a huge market and some price are higher than high-end.

 

Very few ≠ None at all

 

I had a high end setup when I was 17 comparatively speaking.  Agreed with you on the Headphone side of things. A lot of competition and great performing cans for not a lot of $$. 

[plissken]

On 10/31/2017 at 2:43 PM, ismewor said:

Buffer is just a storage. the accurate timing, jitters correction is the key.

 

Buffers correct jitter. Why do you think they call them 'buffers'. Look it up.