MQA is Vaporware

[jbwhite]

In light of this, do you suppose this information is incorrect or outdated?:

No, I'm back to the Roon is in a unique position statement. They win on a technicality. Roon can guarantee end-to-end control over the signal with Roon certified DACs, and no one else can.

 

I'm sure MQA loves this, because it's another revenue stream without compromising their "end-to-end" marketing ploy.

[jbwhite]

None of us know. I'm betting the "new development" had to do with multi-room and other aspects of Roon that don't exist for a software like Tidal desktop.

 

Agree completely none of us know. But I'll take your bet.

[jbwhite]

This is what I posted over on the PS Audio forum. Dulai was responding to all the news about the Aries MQA support being pulled because MQA figured out it wasn't a DAC.

 

timlumley:

Can

@danny

also give his comments what impact this will have with MQA’s integration with Tidal?

I can not. My hands are tied. @R1200CL summed it up well:

 

 

R1200CL:

What a mess.

 

 

miguelito:

I’m confused at this point… Will Roon support MQA? ETA?

It is our plan to support MQA. And because of Roon Certified USB DACs and RoonReady, we are in a unique situation to do something with MQA that no one else is. I can’t speak to this any further, but things are rolling.

 

On another topic, you may have noticed Auralic has announced it is reverse engineering MQA.

[jbwhite]

Here is what I posted over at PS Audio a while ago.

 

Auralic made an interesting announcement a few days ago.

“To those who do not have MQA certificated DAC, dont worry, we are also working on a private software based MQA decoder to send signal to your DAC using AURALiC’s latest upsampling algorithm. (Disclaimer: this is not going to use any MQA property software code.)”

 

You know, this really is getting rather tiresome posting everything twice. Maybe you should leave your forum once in a while and see what's out there. (I don't know how to do emojis, but I hope no one is offended. I prefer civility.)

[jbwhite]

Good luck deploying that commercially. It's an invitation for a patent lawsuit.

 

They are a Chinese company. Good luck trying to enforce software patents in China.

[jbwhite]

In all my experience as a songwriter/musician & the experience of my friends on major labels, & anecdotal experiences throughout the industry, - compression is a decision made outside the artistic process made by the record label, the record label's marketing team, & the radio & entertainment broadcast industry. The mastering engineer works exclusively at the behest of the label; and does not interact with the artist outside an extraordinary circumstance. IME, if a record label executive doesn't "hear" that compressed sound, - they send the test disk back to the mastering engineer at the pressing plant, or back to the "clean-up" third party mastering engineer's computer, - and tells them to "fix" it.

Cheers,

Certainly makes sense to me. That's the way I've always assumed it worked. I have no direct experience, but nothing else is logical. I think this is why a lot of people in the industry are pissed off.

[jbwhite]

Then they'll get import and sales banned in the US through the ITC. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

Maybe, again we'll have to wait and see. I just posted because I thought it might be of interest. Sorry for polluting your site.

[jbwhite]

Maybe, again we'll have to wait and see. I just posted because I thought it might be of interest. Sorry for polluting your site.

At least I'm not feeling rejected again. A little confrontation and everyone is paying attention again.

 

(I guess the emoji didn't work).

[jbwhite]

Where's crenca? I'm starting to miss him.

[jbwhite]

Sure, they might let it slide, though that hasn't been Meridian's way in the past. Time will tell.

 

One option they might get away with is shipping them without MQA support and providing a firmware update for users to download themselves from China. I don't think MQA/Meridian would start suing individual users. Only the RIAA and MPAA do that.

 

It's software in their player, not hardware. They don't have to ship anything. Of course if Donald got pissed off he could put sanctions on China and prevent them from shipping hardware.

[jbwhite]

I agree with that too. There are lots of loopholes.

 

Reply to plissken. My bad.

[jbwhite]

It doesn't matter if it's software or hardware. Using it in the US without a patent licence is illegal. Import of hardware with infringing software installed can be blocked and goods confiscated. A patent troll by name Sisvel used to put on a show every year at CES where they'd get federal agents of some sort to march in and collect the displayed products for which they hadn't been paid licence fees for some mp3-related patents. Needless to say, that was somewhat embarrassing for the targeted companies.

 

If Auralic are putting the MQA decoder in a PC application, there's of course little anyone can do about it.

No, it's an ipad and iPhone app.

[jbwhite]

Time will tell, of course, but do we have another bet?

[jbwhite]

I'm as guilty as anyone else for steering this thread off topic. Mea culpa.

 

Let's get back on track with MQA discussions.

 

Thank you Chris. Now I can go back to work.

[jbwhite]

If you've half a mind to post in this thread, that's all you need.

 

Thank you. I'm glad someone can laugh at themself around here! It is what gets us through all this, you know.

[jbwhite]

Read this Bob Stuart interview. You have to parse the words carefully, because after all, he is marketing his product. You can't blame him for that as long as he's not being deceitful. You can then form your own opinion.

 

And yes, you must have enough trust in Stereophile to believe they are not in on the conspiracy.

MQA and Warner: the Real Scoop | Stereophile.com

[jbwhite]

Clearly there are some cases where work is done to restore a master with some effort to reverse engineer some ADC failings. In the case of the Universal catalogue might be a batch convert from whatver 24 bit masters they have; certainly he has not specifically indicated that details of the originally ADCs (mastering software? plugins?) were provided or compensated for.

 

In neither case is it specifically stated that the original artist has approved the final MQA version.

 

Agree completely. I never drank the Kool-Aid.

 

Except it is the Warner Catalogue, not the Universal Catalogue. And a batch conversion is *exactly* what they did.

[jbwhite]

Do you have any facts on that, like a link ?, thanks

 

No links. Just my takeaway from everything I've seen from Bob Stuart, including Chris' interview a long time ago. I think it is all very transparent.

[jbwhite]

well transparent is like VW claiming their mileage, don't believe everything you think you read or hear. I think I;ll just wait till the Master Car Salemen himself Stuart tells the world one day what we all want to know. Right now everything is basically speculation.

 

Like I said, if he's being deceitful it's wrong, no discussion required. I'd also recommend reading Chris' interview from Apr '16. I think Chris has promised an interview in the future also. I'm looking forward to reading it.

Do you really believe there should be some agency to monitor all marketing and deciding if it's a clear and unambiguous represention of the product they are selling? Heaven help us.

 

You are entitled to whatever opinion you hold. As I said before, read what's out there and form your own opinion.

[jbwhite]

Stuart tells the world one day what we all want to know.

 

Also, exactly what is it "we all want to know?" I've been confused about that since I started visiting this thread.

Thanks in advance. Maybe Chris can put that in his interview.

[jbwhite]

well transparent is like VW claiming their mileage, don't believe everything you think you read or hear. I think I;ll just wait till the Master Car Salemen himself Stuart tells the world one day what we all want to know. Right now everything is basically speculation.

p.s. If the world believes it has been duped, deliberately misled, and they resent it....that's what is called a blundered marketing campaign that will kill the product. Kind of like that "New Coke" campaign.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

[jbwhite]

well since we all have been speculating in this thread what we think we know, maybe one day Stuart will tell us, like you noted maybe Chris will obtain the answers in some "interview".

 

I sure hope the MQA users of Tidal and those that purchased these certified dacs haven't been duped as that would be bad for the music streaming and download industry as a whole and your example of "New Coke' is spot on.

As I've said many times, we'll just have to wait and see. I have a "buyer beware" attitude, so I don't feel so terrible about people buying MQA DACs. But yes, I think that's one of the nice things about capitalism. (See my first post here - I became a CA member to post that because I thought I had something to contribute). Now I'm a little sorry I got sucked in - I have better uses for my time. But I'm just "A Stubborn Kinda Fellow."

 

Link provided.

 

 

And no, I'm not Marvin Gaye trying to promote MQA because I want people to hear it just like in the studio.

 

Or Ella Fitzgerald "Is it Live or Is It Memorex" thinking maybe MQA is a step up from casette tape.

 

I'm really David Byrne. "Same as it ever was.....Same as it ever was...etc."

 

Sorry, no links for me or Ella.

[jbwhite]

Did I win

 

Did *I* win?

[jbwhite]

And everyone knows Paul is dead. So why couldn't Marvin and Ella be alive?

Here's the link.

http://www.paulreallyisdead.com/reviews.html

 

David

[jbwhite]

There are many open questions regarding MQA, such as:

 

- pro/con of full hardware decode vs software+hardware decode vs software only decode

- why are 44.1 and 48k tracks upsampled when running the software decoder?

- does the hardware MQA decoder also do custom upsampling of 44.1K material, or does it just leave that to the DAC upsampler?

 

A bit wider than just technical MQA stuff, other open questions include:

- what about room correction?

- why did miniDSP get denied a MQA licence?

- how will it all work in Roon?

- why are there upsampled tracks on Tidal Masters? Isn't the whole point of MQA avoiding that?

 

I'm sure there are other questions as well.

I think everything in your "open questions" section is pretty well covered in Chris' Apr '16 interview.

 

Maybe he'll cover the rest in the upcoming interview. Most of this is either very new, or hasn't been released yet - I believe that makes it "Vaporware."