Verification of JRiver to foo_asio for DSD conversion

[mlgrado]

Yes, you stole my next question, as that is why I asked about foo_DSD_Asio...rethinking maybe it was a lighter plugin. Nice. Thanks.

 

Yes, I have no idea what OP is asking, as foo_Asio seems to be a weird choice for wanting to do DSD in JRIver. But he seems so doggedly determined for no one to question him that I gave up after mentioning WDM and seeing his responses to others.

 

 

NOT a weird choice.

 

ASIO PROXY (foo DSD plugin) is so much more advanced than anything JRiver can do. Multiple choices of modulators, choice of DoP or Native based on sample rate. Upconversion of PCM to every DSD rate up the DSD512. ALSO upsampling or downsampling of DSD without decimation to PCM to any other DSD rate!!!!!!!

 

And EVEN MORE IMPORTANT is the quality of the conversion. Go over to DIYHIFI.ORG which is an industry back room that several top brand, well known audio designers hang out and bitch about things. You will find a test of JRiver's DSD conversion. It sucks. Linear Phase Oversampling filter with tons of ringing. ASIO PROXY is SIGNIFICANTLY better. Oh, and speaking of Oversampling, something else you can do with ASIO PROXY is select the oversampling rate before delta sigma conversion. Or not have any at all before the modulator. SAMPLE and HOLD from NONE all the way to 8X.

 

EXTREMELY excellent option for DSD playback via JRiver. It is the BEST option this side of HQPlayer.

 

 

Now, back to what the OP is asking. JRIVER is not going to tell you what ASIO PROXY is doing. As far a JRIVER is concerned, it is outputting a bitperfect signal. The only way I know what is happening is via the iFi control panel. It shows exactly what rate is REALLY going to the iDSD DAC when using ASIO PROXY. For instance, if I am using DSD256 via DOP, it shows 705 khz as the output format. If I do that same via Native, it shows 11 megahertz. You in theory COULD do DSD512 over DoP, but the Dac would need to support 1.4MHZ PCM. But DSD512 in NATIVE ASIO works just fine.

 

The other way to know is if your DAC has indicators.

 

 

SORRY OP... I totally understand your question.

 

I WOULD suggest this, though. If you are using the ASIO PROXY foo_DSD plugin with Jriver, and you have set the parameters, and everything is WORKING, (that is you are getting sound) I would say it is doing exactly what you are asking it to do in the settings.

 

 

ANOTHER NOTE/TIP... the latest version of ASIO PROXY will not output multiples of 48khz as DSD if you use 'DSD' as the output. You MUST use DoP for those sample rates. You can only use 'DSD', which means native ASIO output, for rates that are a multiple of 44.1 khz. Not really a big deal... I just set 44.1, 88.2, 176.4, 352.8 to be converted via DoP at DSD256 rate. (Can't do DSD512 via DoP with the iFi iDSD.) Then for 48, 96, 192 and 384 I use 'DSD' or native. Not that it matters. You could choose all DoP. Probably the audio fool in me that says if I can use native streaming I must. There was A TIME when you could output ALL rates via NATIVE ASIO. But that means some non standard DSD rates... I.E. 64 x 48,000 is 3,072,000 hz. Not all DACS can handle these non standard DSD rates. One solution that ASIO PROXY will NOT use is to convert 48 khz multiples to 44.1 khz multiples THEN modulate. That is probably what JRiver does. That adds and extra step that is a potential drop in fidelity. But, if you want back the convenience factor of using Native ASIO for all PCM rates, (for instance to use DSD512 with all rates) you could turn on the JRIVER internal resampling engine and convert everything to a 44.1 khz multiple there. It would get sent out from Jriver to ASIO Proxy and now you can bypass using DoP. Myself, I would rather just use DoP and be limited to DSD256, than introduce the Jriver resampling engine into the equation. It is the poor quality of that engine that is a major reason for using ASIO PROXY in the first place, right?

[mlgrado]

Hi all,

 

here is PCM to DSD conversion quality comparison by Eurodriver (based on his listening experience) I 100% agree with:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index6.html#post337112

 

After I compared JRiver's conversion and ASIO proxy (foo_dsd_asio) in JRiver environment, from that time I am using only foo_dsd_asio in JRiver.

 

So YES, ASIO proxy foo_dsd_asio can be used outside of Foobar2000 environment. It is not part of Foobar2000 and it has separate installation. It creates virtual ASIO output device foo_dsd_asio which can be set for example in JRiver as ASIO output device (instead of ASIO device of your DAC).

 

ASIO proxy device foo_dsd_asio can be configured:

- what to do with incoming digital audio stream (convert PCM o DSD or convert DSD to PCM or upsample DSD)

- which ASIO device should be the processing output sent to (here your DAC ASIO device is set)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27698[/ATTACH]

 

Yet one note about Foobar2000: ASIO proxy device foo_dsd_asio is not required to be used in Foobar2000 to be able to listen to DSD (SACD) material. Foobar plugin foo_input_sacd provides that support and that's the thing which is Foobar2000 specific, not the ASIO proxy.

 

ASIO proxy is used to convert (DSD to PCM or PCM to DSD) and to upsample DSD material (DSD to DSD). If a Foobar2000 user doesn't need these conversions while listening to DSD material, then there is no need to use foo_dsd_asio with Foobar2000.

 

ASIO proxy foo_dsd_asio and Foobar plugin foo_input_sacd have the same author Maxim Anisiutkin and they are provided for free. Here you can see the things are provided as separate download: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/

 

 

It isn't just confirmed by listening experience. It has been objectively measured as superior. ASIO PROXY has a measurably better PCM oversampling filter compared to JRIVER DSD conversion

[mlgrado]

You'er using foo_dsd-asio in JRiver? And it works at DSD256 via JRIver?

 

BTW, foo_DSD_asio is not foo_asio (OP subject) so not sure what we're discussing here, and what the OP is trying to do with non-Jriver plugins.

 

Not to keep beating a dead horse. But yes, foo_dsd_asio works with JRIVER. Its called ASIO PROXY. Works all the way to DSD512

 

And to answer another question you posed... it isn't restricted to any software. It can be used with any software that has ASIO compatibility. As long as the output is being routed via ASIO, it works. Which would include streaming services.