T+a dac 8 dsd

[Miska]

The Amanero guy was trying to download the package... without he is kind of stuck.

I am aware of your server problems. When will you be able to have it online again?

 

The file is back now. I thought that he had already got it so I didn't put it back when I rebuilt the server.

 

Anyway, if he needs help or has any questions, he should email me directly. I can help him, I want to get this stuff working...

[Miska]

It'd be nice to simulate DSD 512 on HQP to get the server load.

 

I'll think about adding a dummy "freerunning" backend to HQPlayer at some future version for measuring playback speed without actual output....

[Miska]

Could you also consider a feature like "when source material is PCM, upsample to DSD512 and when source material is DSD, upsample to DSD256"?

 

What would be the point of doing so? I would rather not add too much more complexity to HQPlayer settings, it is already quite complex. Also testing all the possible combinations is becoming challenging.

[Miska]

As an example, my xeon 1265L is fast enough to upsample all PCM resolutions with -2s to dsd512 while simultaneously using matrix processing. It is not fast enough for doing the same thing with dsd source material. However, dsd to dsd 256 does work in this configuration. With this feature I could take advantage of the biggest output mode for every filetype the cpu is capable of and it would probably save you much time when people ask you if their cpu is capable of this or that.

 

GPU could help on this, have you considered that option? For example the GTX 1070 coming soon could be an option for that.

[Miska]

so in term of processing power for HQP a I7 6700 ( 65W) + a GTX 1070 could be as powerful as a I7 6700K alone ?

 

It is not really possible to directly compare the two, because GPU has different strengths and cannot be used for everything. But it helps especially on running convolution filters and part of other stuff too. So for cases where the CPU is fast enough to reach DSD512 under certain conditions, GPU offload can help achieving DSD512 under some other conditions too. It is kind of relatively inexpensive way to add extra boost to an already existing machine. I'm using it to help run matrix processing to 8 channel DSD256 output with exaSound e28 on my Win10 machine.

[Miska]

Maybe the value and performance is in these newer and cheaper DACS.

 

My personal thinking is that DACs should focus on doing the actual D/A conversion process as well as possible and leave out DSP stuff. Doing so can both make the DAC better and relatively cheaper and utilizes the unbeatable price/performance ratio of computers for doing the DSP part.

[Miska]

Now chipless audio playback becomes possible at a better price point. I do wonder how much of the smoothness is due to the HQP upsampling algos vs. chipless path.

 

You can of course try it out and measure and what not...

 

Also with chipless R2R ladders if you like. I have Metrum Musette for that purpose...

[Miska]

So that's kind of the issue. You can do up through DSD256 via DoP, assuming the playback computer and the DAC are up to it

 

Well, you can do DSD512 using DoP and HQPlayer on OS X as long as the DAC is up to it...

[Miska]

Would be interesting how you find the Metrum ladder compared to T+A via NAA.

 

I would say NAA makes pretty tiny difference compared to the difference between the DACs...

 

But you certainly want to run Metrum with upsampling. Even just for jitter performance. Difference is in tens of dB's.

[Miska]

How do you like the Musette musically?

 

It sounds a bit too flat for my taste... But it certainly performs the best when used with closed-form filter.

[Miska]

How to upsample PCM to 256DSD?

I use Brooklyn DAC with my audio pc. when i ticked to alt dsd in setting,no sound came out.

now as my current setting, it came out as 32bits/384k when playing PCM and for DSD, it came out as its native DSD format of files.

 

AltDSD is only for Playback Designs and Merging DACs.

 

Select "SDM" as output format in the main window (drop-list on the right). If you also want to upsample DSD, uncheck the DirectSDM in DSDIFF/DSF Settings dialog.

[Miska]

No prob - I generally have left my previous DACs on as well.

The Auralic Vega had a "sleep" mode which also kept the clocks warm. It sounds like the T+A does as well.

 

So my problem remains, I have to RDP into the PC to restart HQP unless there's a workaround. This happened with the Vega as well. Miska suggested I try the WASPI driver, but that's not an option with the T+A

 

Configure your computer's power button to initiate shutdown. And make Windows auto-login and launch HQPlayer at start. Then you can easily power down the computer too when you power down the DAC. You just need to remember to power up the two in correct order.

[Miska]

Please don't equate me to to the T+A DAC8 DSD, in good or bad.

 

Sure it certainly works great with HQPlayer and is one of the most optimal DACs to be used in combination with HQPlayer. (for DSD512, iDSD Micro works too at much lower price point)

 

If you want to equate me to some DAC, then my DSC1 is the correct one, in good and bad. And sure it has lot to be improved, as I manage to find time to work on the next version. Not to be compared to any commercial product though.

[Miska]

I wonder why the price is so high in USD. It is priced 2750 euro which is $3072 in USD. But it is sold for about $4000 in US.

 

If you look at price of US products in Europe, the price difference is similar. For example in Finland, there's 24% VAT added on top. Distributor usually adds 30% profit margin and dealer adds another 30% profit on top. So you need to check shipping costs, customs, taxes and number of hands between manufacturer and you.

 

And we are not yet talking about cars which seem to get extra tax and customs treatment everywhere!

[Miska]

I would generally advice against leaving equipment on, because electrolytic capacitors have fairly low MTBF and one can quickly reach end of life for those by keeping devices powered up 24/7. So far what I've seen, most equipment with electrolytic caps begin to get failures between 3 to 5 years running 24/7.

 

I have all my stuff connected to power filters and to extension cord with a switch and multiple connectors. I switch everything off using the extension cord's switch when not necessary to keep those up. Also saves electricity.

 

I have split power filtering into domains. All devices with SMPS are behind different power filter than the ones with linear PSU. This usually means sources being on one filter and amps and such being the other one. Most DACs have LPSUs so end up on that side.

[Miska]

Anyone knows what is the current status of getting microrendu and t+a dsd dac support native dsd512 ?

 

I wouldn't expect such thing to happen. Technically it should be possible, but I'm not aware of any activity on that front.

[Miska]

T+A may have custom firmware, so the standard one doesn't necessarily fit. At worst, flashing wrong firmware could permanently damage the hardware...

 

So just be careful and don't burn your hardware...

[Miska]

"It is possible to update DAC8DSD. If Amanero offers a new firmware, of course we first want to proof the functionality in combination with DAC8DSD. SYS port is not used."

 

OK, great! It sounds like T+A is open to upgrading the firmware if/when the new firmware begins to work...

[Miska]

That makes it very exciting, as I dont only want to upsample and the latest R2R PCM is special!

 

What kind of PCM rates does it support and does it do some upsampling? You know, RedBook to NOS R2R results in really horrible performance...

[Miska]

PCM to 384khz.

No up sampling whatsoever. Only native rate playback AFAIK.

 

OK, so it is best to be always fed at that 384k then...

 

I guess Phasure NOS1a is the only one that can take in higher than 384k? (Metrum also tops out at 384k)

[Miska]

Maybe difficult to say or speculate, but do you think PCM384 would actually be preferred over DSD128 (DoP) with current Amanero/Linux limitation through microRendu and this new Lampi DAC?

 

No, 384k is still doomed to have the typical PCM ladder performance problems. Just like Metrum has.

 

Lower the rate, more horrifying the technical performance becomes though.

 

At 44.1/48k you get severe roll-off above 10 kHz plus huge amount of image frequencies above 22.05 kHz plus lot of intermodulation products back to the audio band.

 

For example, look at Metrum Musette playing 19+20 kHz IMD test tone @44.1k sampling rate:

 

[Miska]

Of all people Jussi, I am surprised that you forget the iFi micro iDSD accepts 768K.

 

I was thinkin/talking about R2R ladders, although didn't explicitly state that...

 

I got one of those on sale (it's pretty good) and I was using HQP last week to compare DSD256 (from my Mac via DoP) to PCM768. Was surprisingly close, though some of that may have been because DSD256DoP with your better modulators is pretty taxing to my quad-core i7 Mac mini (still running older HQP version pre-pipeline option).

 

You should update your HQPlayer to latest versions!

 

Technical performance of the iDSD Micro is certainly better at DSD256/DSD512. But feeding it at 705.6/768k PCM already provides 2x faster rate than the on-chip digital filters can do (352.8/384k).

[Miska]

Actually pretty amazing since they didn't even review it the way most of us find best; with everything upsampled to DSD512

 

There are clear reasons for that... For example software companies rarely buy advertising on print media. In addition I for example don't have official US based distributor/resellers.

 

Overall major audiophile print medias largely try to pretend computers and software don't exist because they want to think everything in terms of hardware. As a result they try to pretend such possibility doesn't even exist. I'll draw a mark on the wall when some major audiophile print media even mentions existence of such possibility. I don't think computers, software and internet music streaming are going away, quite the opposite. Yes, I do realize AudioStream - their sister internet media is dedicated for such things. But somehow I feel AudioStream and InnerFidelity are kept distant in a way. If it's good or bad, I don't know.

 

To me, computers and software are audiophile components as much as a DAC or amp too!

[Miska]

Actually they are afraid of being drawn into a market (mainstream computers and audio devices) where profit margins are so much lower than on the high end audio market. But this is inevitable as the digital signal path spreads along the playback chain and the sound quality differences decrease.

 

Maybe... In many cases software products have much more expensive R&D, but retail price and margin is much lower. Through normal two level retail chain HQPlayer license for example would cost at least somewhere around 250€. Also the technical complexity of computers and software is much higher than traditional analog audio gear. Maybe HQPlayer will break even some day in future...

 

But I don't think digital signal path spreading more through the chain would make sound quality differences smaller, quite the contrary when it comes to DSP algorithms. The sound quality differences just move from hardware design to software design.

 

Windows or Mac OS of today is exponentially more complex than it was 20 years ago, same applies for audio software.

[Miska]

I'll draw a mark on the wall when some major audiophile print media even mentions existence of such possibility.

 

I guess I have to do that now... I've today read the Stereophile's DAC8 DSD review and it actually spends one short paragraph to mention HQPlayer and upsampling to DSD512! <3 Thank you Jon Iverson!

 

As a side note, JA's measurements cover only half of the DAC - the PCM side.