Optical Network Configurations

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Just installed PPA TCXO clock modified Q1900M along with PPA RAM into my NAA

 

1. PPA v2 USB card in leftmost PCI-e

2. Intel x520 NIC with Intel Singlemode SFP module configured to iSCSI boot

3. PPA TCXO clock is mounted on lower right and connected via white cable

4. No SATA or any hard drive/flash drive of any type

5. PicoPSU powered via 12v LPS

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If anyone is deploying a 10 fiber network, you may need to incorporate legacy 10m/100m/1g copper ethernet. This switch will aggreggate the copper network and uplink via a 10g fiber connection. Also allows connecting your NAS via 10g while the rest of the network is 1g etc:

Mikrotik CRS226-24G-2S+IN Review - You want one (or more)

 

My own network is Brocade/Foundry but if I didn't already have my equipment, I'd strongly consider this, hence the post.

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Thanks for the heads up and pictures, Jabbr!

 

Is there actually any SQ advantage in using 10gb SFP's over regular 1g per se?

 

Which Pico model is most suitable for the Q1900M?

 

My NAS has a 10g connection, NAA 1g. I haven't compared SFPs because the Intel is dual 10g/1g. I use the 150-XT picoPSU.

 

I somehow doubt it. But if you're moving big files around a network, nice to be able to take advantage of the added bandwidth of these 10gb NICs.

 

At least, that's what I've been thinking about.

 

Right. For an audio network 1g should be fine. The expense is the 10g switch.

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Yes. In fact it's getting hard to find 1g cards these days. One of the reasons to start this thread was to document what works with what because, for example, although 10g nics & switches are not required to work with 1g they often do ... there are SFPs which do 1g only, 10g only and dual 1/10g.

 

I've tried a Mellanox Connectx-2 card but it worked intermittently for me ... and got very hot so perhaps the heat sink needed to be remounted? That said trying to get iSCSI boot to work on it required another layer of software (iPXE -> DHCP -> iSCSI) and so the Intel x520 worked for me better all around.

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If I didn't already have a Brocade 1g switch with 10g uplink, I would get this:

 

Amazon.com: Mikrotik CRS212-1G-10S-1S+IN Layer 3 Cloud Router Gigabit Switch OSL5: Computers & Accessories

 

Not only is the price very reasonable, it has a 10G SPF+ port, and so the 1G local network can have a shared connection to a 10G network for say, NAS access.

[jabbr]

Wouldn't this be better, given extra SFP+ port, and basically same price?

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RSNN17G

 

Both are useful for slightly different purposes: the above has copper ethernet ports and so can be used to connect 1g copper network to 10g fiber. The one I referenced has SFP (1g) ports and a single SFP+ (10G) port, being able to provide a 1g fiber network with the ability to uplink to a 10g network ... hence an advantage over the Diablo at a better price.

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No ideological integrity -- it's all about getting the best sound:)

 

My network is end to end fiber from workstation running HQPlayer to NAS to NAA. I have cable modem internet which connects to the network via FMC as well as a legacy copper Ethernet network that connects to the fiber network by a dedicated copper switch with a 10gbe fiber uplink.

 

If you aren't prepared to go full fiber then you can get a benefit via FMC and hybrid copper fiber ... why this helps can be explained technically but regardless many people hear a result.

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.. just to summarise: My take is that these cards actually make more of a SQ difference than expected or previously discussed here! I would therefore recommend their use in the most critical places (eg audio pc)

 

The only proviso is that my system is a lowish bay trail Celeron (albeit quad-core), which might benefit more from the slight resources saved by using an optical LAN card, than would a system with more powerful CPU.

 

Yes

 

Most of the cards to checksum offloading etc. so save the CPU work, and thus generally improve performance. e.g. iSCSI

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John Swenson was discussing copper not optical Ethernet. Different PHY!

 

FWIW my NAS has a 10g connection but NAA only 1g ... the Intel SFPs are dual 1g/10g so you can mix and match. I am using 1g for audio machines because that switch is LPS.

 

The PPA is a reclocked cheap switch ... still waiting for him to send my reclocked SFP switch...

[jabbr]

+1

 

There is a benefit of reducing the copper Ethernet cable length if the equipment uses "green Ethernet" which can reduce power for shorter cables.

 

Optical Ethernet can go kilometers with single mode.

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Thanks for the responses.

 

I have the process started by ordering a switch, the TP-Link converters and the Cisco receivers. I need to determine the cable lengths but can do so while the rest of the items are shipping. Also need to look at the power supply needs for each of the boxes.

 

Going to hold off on the Mellanox card for now to see what gains I get before having to open up my music server.

 

Very reasonable to first see how much of a difference it makes in your own system before making too many changes.

 

Its really too bad there isn't anything like the Cubox that accepts an SFP connection. There are actually FPGA/ARM chips e.g. Altera that can directly accept the input from an SFP.

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What about something like this?

 

http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/10/24/gigglebits-hackable-arm-fpga-router-comes-with-an-spf-cage-and-5-gigabit-ethernet-ports-crowdfunding/

 

That's great! This board looks like it could be a direct fiber input NAA, and output I2S from programmed pins.

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You can do it this way. The product looks like a variant probably made in the same factory as the one I am using. There is the thought, however, that you should avoid all copper Ethernet into the switch itself, and so another alternative is to connect the copper devices with FMCs. If you are worried about extra LPSs, I think you are better off using an FMC with a simple SMPS as opposed to copper Ethernet, particularly for those FMCs connected to the NAS etc. This is all likely system and user dependent, so it really depends, but if you are getting a significant improvement with LPS (as many people are), then the only copper wires going into your fiber switch should be from the LPS

 

 

Just a quick update for anyone interested plus I would like to bounce a few things off the experts.

 

For the optical switch, I have on order one of the inexpensive ones:

 

Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 10 ports 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet Fiber Switch with 8 Gbit SFP ports and 2*10/100/1000Mbps RJ45

 

It has two RJ45 connectors so I was thinking that I could attach my NAS (port 1) as well as my Airport Extreme (port 2) which acts as a wireless connection to my home network & Internet. By doing so, I can avoid adding one of the TP-Link converters for the NAS. I am assuming that the switch performs the same function as the TP-Link converter. The optical switch will be in close proximity to these two pieces so very short Cat6a cables can be used.

 

I also have on order one of the Mellanox cards for my Linux music server. The card was only $18 on ebay (so what the hell), again avoiding one of the TP-Links converters for my music server.

 

So the only TP-Link converter needed will be used for the Cubox-i (NAA). I have 3 TP-Links converters on order so I may end up with extras.

 

I still need to order the fiber optic cables but wanted to get my placement of the various pieces confirmed before deciding on length of cables. Probably also need a few short runs of Cat6a cables but can wait to see how everything checks out.

 

Any comments from the experts about this configuration are welcome.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that by avoiding the two TP-Links converter also avoids two additional power supplies. So I would only be adding one additional power supply from what I have now.

[jabbr]

Is it a problem that it has wifi on board?

 

Not sure, likely interface can be turned off. Looks like the Zynq 7000 has builtin I2S and runs Linux, so possible a very simple board could be made with an SFP module, the chip and an SD card for OS.

[jabbr]

Thanks, man

 

Tonight I finally got to add an optical card to my control pc, so it now is: control -> audio pc directly via optical cable and no copper or FMC's. Storage HDD is local (sata), so no nas.

 

The result is a big step up in SQ, coming from a blacker background and greater composure and clarity. I can definitely recommend swapping fmc's for cards.

 

Really happy with the result!

 

Nice. I think that if the fiber switch has a good clock and LPS or battery supply then there may actually be a benefit to reclocking the Ethernet ... at the very least not worse:)

[jabbr]

First post: first mistake: (sorry) Post meant to reply/respond to Jabbr.

 

Thanks for all of your posts on this subject, - I have learned a lot. I am thinking of using two TrendNet TEG-082WS switches that have two MM fiber connections and 8 Gigabit RJ45 Ethernet ports: instead of media converters at the audio rack. With the potential for 5 to 7 RJ45 Ethernet devices in the audio rack: that could account for a lot of media converters. Hence my question, are you realizing significant SQ benefits by running either battery power or linear power supplies on your FMCs?

 

There are many ways to do it. Firstly be sure that the switch you mentioned has enough capacity for you because the 2 SFP ports are shared with 2 of the RJ45, so you will have 6 RJ45 ports free.

 

There are degrees of goodness. Some people prefer to keep the copper and fiber separate. I started running 2 FMCs on the connection to my NAA and heard a significant benefit. Putting a battery on the FMC closest to the NAA also yields benefit. I also have benefit from switching my own system to fiber, which means a fiber switch and a fiber NIC. Both of mine are LPS. Batteries are cheap. You could get an extra battery and listen to it on various FMCs and if you hear a difference, then leave it there. If you don't hear a difference, then try it somewhere else etc., worst case you have an extra spare supply for your iPhone/android etc.

 

As I upgrade areas, I move equipment to other places, so now I have an FMC between my cable modem, and internal network, as well as between wireless router, and internal network. Does it make an SQ difference? Frankly who knows.

 

The thing I would also do is to use vibration isolation (rollerballs) on every piece of equipment that has a clock, i.e. computer, NAA, FMC, switch, DAC.

[jabbr]

Should just work.

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Still waiting for his -- in meantime I'm doing a neutrino myself ... 12v LPS for this just arrived and it's ready for me to hook up

[jabbr]

Seems logical, thanks.

 

Guess the ppa upgraded oem Diablo went off the back burner?

 

Still waiting for his -- in meantime I'm doing a neutrino myself ... 12v LPS for this just arrived and it's ready for me to hook up...

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What I do is use a separate switch for copper and connect to the fiber switch either:

A) via an FMC

B) via an optical uplink port i.e. Use the single SFP slot to connect to the fiber switch.

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I use cheap OM3 off ebay without problems, it usually turns out to be Corning:) Target price is $1/m roughly. Possibly SFPs ... some gunk could get in the holes for example, but the other problem I've seen with some of those Mellanox cards is that they can get rather hot. I used a card that worked intermittently for that reason. You could try reseating the heatsink, perhaps the goo is all dried out etc.

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Regarding those super thin OM3 cables, you can order from fiberstore.com and request a thicker jacket (3.0 mm) LC-LC Duplex 10G OM3 50/125 Mulitmode Fiber Patch Cord | Fiberstore -- I learned the hard way that the thin cables can turn into a tangled mess when trying to string through by attic...

[jabbr]

For example, - would it be better to just run fiber along side Ethernet

 

Not sure the application or config you have, but what I do is keep the main switches in my basement near my NAS with home runs throughout the house. In my bedroom where it would be just too much trouble to run a fiberoptic cable, I hook the existing cat 5e to an FMC and then to an SFP switch from where it is distributed to audio devices. I am sure there are specific situations where that device fits the bill but its price starts to approach the 8 port SFP switch ... you can also just add an RJ45-SFP module if you need more copper ports.

[jabbr]

Well then it appears that its not the network ... which was essentially entirely replaced ...

 

if redbook plays ok, but only stutters when upsampling, then likely a problem with the guy doing the upsampling...

[jabbr]

Something that was working isn't now-- to figure these things out I use (mentally) a technique where each "network" that is having the problem gets a color and the intersection if these networks contain the suspects.

 

By "network" I don't mean "Ethernet" rather:

 

A) all connected devices participating in play from NAS

B) all connected devices participating in play from streamer

 

Now you've swapped out ?all Ethernet devices, so what else is in common?

 

 

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