How do you store DFF ( untagged ) files?

[bogi]

I tried doing "change default" with the "open with" from a Virtual CloneDrive program I have (never an issue cuz ISOs were never a context subject before) to something else but when I choose ISO2DSF.exe it doesn't show up in the iconic list of choices.? I changed it, for now, to JRIver, but wondered what else to choose. It's a nit; no big deal.

 

I cannot reproduce your issue. I tried in both in Win8.1 and Win7 and the behaviour is the same: When I set other program as default program, iso2dsf remains in the list of default programs in 'Open with' -> Choose default program. Then when I will change it back to iso2dsf, the bold context menu 'SACD ISO to DSF per track' appears again.

 

It seems to me AddContextMenuItem.bat didn't succeed on your computer. Try to run it once again, or check the registry. This is example registry content in my case:

 

C:\Users\P>reg query HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\iso_auto_file\shell\ISOtoDSF /s

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\iso_auto_file\shell\ISOtoDSF
   (Default)    REG_SZ    SACD ISO to DSF per track
   Icon    REG_EXPAND_SZ    %SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,176

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\iso_auto_file\shell\ISOtoDSF\command
   (Default)    REG_SZ    "H:\tools\ISO2DSD\iso2dsf.exe" "%1"


C:\Users\P>

[bogi]

Basic answer appears at the 1st page of this thread, look at my easy experiment with hexadecimal file comparer: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/how-do-you-store-dff-untagged-files-21780/#post352256

The same DSD content is coded differently in DFF and DSF files, so complete new file has to be written.

[bogi]

My regedit looks identical. Regardless, I tried something new and went to my start menu and used the global "default programs" setting app. Now it works as "SACD ISO to DSF per track". Thx

 

I could add your case in the PDF guide. Did you use the 1st (Set your default programs) or the 2nd option (Associate a file type or protocol with a program) in Default Programs?

[bogi]

Jussi, dff2dsf.exe still crashes in the case of DST input file. I sent a link to a DST file to your mail.

I sent you another mail related to the 'id3v2 blob' topic.

[bogi]

Update:

* some ISOs are not being extracted, but rather sent through in 1-2 seconds as if they were successful, with simply a cue file created. These same ISOs are successfully extracted via Jesus's GUI.

* some ISOs are creating nested subfolders (artist, then artist album). That is a pain but can be dealt with.

* some ISOs subfolders do not contain cue or text files when finished (even though dos prompt/messages are the same, of course).

 

In the case that album artist string or album title string is too long, I need to truncate it. In the version 1.0.0. I am creating output folder named "<album artist> - <album title>" under the folder, where SACD ISO is placed. I am thinking about using only <album title> as the output directory. <album artist> is probably part of the parent folder name, where ISO is placed. Truncation will be still necessary in special case, when <album title> is too long.

[bogi]

My ISO2DSF is based on other usage ideas than a classical GUI app. I didn't create a GUI app because I don't want it for this task. I have always a file browser open, I am happy with my 2 click solution. The cfg file is not subject of frequent change. My tool can be incorporated into higher level scripts for a set of ISO files. The flexibility to start it from command line and the possibility to use it in higher level scripts are the main points for me. I have no intention to convert it to a classical GUI application.

 

If you want Jesus to change his tool, contact him. He can change his GUI easily to incorporate Miska's dff2dsf. He uses different way of implementation than I. I think for his tool it is suitable to use his way of implementation for the new option if he wishes to do it. We can discuss, anyone who wishes can contact me.

[bogi]

I incorporated Ted's findings in the new ISO2DSF version v1.1.0. You can download it here:

https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B1IZPbDClIn6RlQtRW1nMFZ2V0E

Please read the updated PDF document.

 

Ted, your CUE sheets were helpful to address issues with very long metadata strings and untypical characters in them, which are not allowed in file/directory names. Thanks for testing.

 

Please let me know, if you have any issues, questions, suggestions.

[bogi]

Miska just sent me corrected DFF2DSF. Both things work:

- detecting input DFF files in compressed DST format

- tagging the resulting DSF files using external file

 

It does mean, that in the next ISO2DSF version I will be able to generate tagged DSF files without the need to use external tagger like MP3TAG. That will again speed up processing.

 

Thanks, Miska!

[bogi]

Stephanie, I'm glad you succeeded to make ISO2DSF working!

 

Miska is author of dff2dsf.exe command line converter and I am author of ISO2DSF tool including the context menu interface. So your questions are related to me.

 

The ZIP archive of ISO2DSF contains PDF guide ISOtoDSFv110.pdf. The installation part of the guide contains the points you are asking for. If you have a suggestion to improve the guide, please let me know.

[bogi]

Stephanie, I see your point. I think it would be easier to start with my archive ISO2DSF_v1.1.0_Win7_Win8.zip and then add dss2dsf.exe and sacd_extract.exe to it.

 

This is my change proposal:

 

INSTALLATION

 

 

1. Unzip this archive to any directory on your computer.
    
    
   
2. Download sacd_extract from https://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/list
   Open the downloaded archive and copy sacd_extract.exe to the same directory you used in the step 1.
    
    
   
3. Download DFF2DSF tool from Signalyst
   Find dff2dsf.exe in the downloaded archive and copy it to the same directory you used in the step 1.
    
    
   
4. In Windows Explorer, go to the directory, where you installed all the files. To create 'SACD ISO to DSF per track' Windows Explorer context menu item for ISO file type, run AddContextMenuItem.bat.
    
   

[bogi]

Don't extract all the Bogi versions, just the one you need (i.e click on Win32, don't unzip the parent folder).

 

Ted, you meant 'Don't extract all the Miska versions' :-)

[bogi]

Therefore I wrote "Find dff2dsf.exe in the downloaded archive and copy it to the same directory you used in the step 1."

The .exe file appears in the win32 subdirectory of the archive.

 

Edit: I will add a picture of the installation folder to the guide. That will be easiest to understand.

[bogi]

paul3000h, try to lower the value of parameter $albumtitle_length in iso2dsf.cfg

 

Thanks for your suggestion to improve the documentation, it will help me to update the guide.

[bogi]

The small thing is that I had to write "Press <Return> to close", or change the implementation.

 

I'm not sure with your finding, that the cause was DFF2DSF. Your 1st "black" picture shows, that sacd_extract was started, but exited unexpectedly during processing of 1st track. Till that time point DFF2DSF was not yet invoked. It is started when all tracks are extracted by sacd_extract.

 

I observer that behaviour when I tested sacd_extract alone. It's some bug in sacd_extract, when the last optional parameter for output directory is used. I added the $albumtitle_length parameter to the iso2dsf.cfg file after I noticed this behaviour. Shortening the output directory helped in the cases I tested..

 

Previouslly you most probably extracted other ISO files, not that one which now caused your troubles. The issue with sacd_extract <outdir> parameter si not systematic. It occurs only with ISO's where artist or album names are very long strings.

[bogi]

You are the 1st who reports click issue, it's important to know what's the reason. The known click issue of sacd_extract is only one of possibilities.

 

DFF and DSF files are of different formats. Different DSF encoding and different headers. So their size has not be the same for the same track.

 

Foobar uses CUE sheet, generated by sacd_extract, when you run the Sonore tool.

My ISO2DSF generates CUE sheet too. Therefore I'm surprised it didn't work for you with DSF files. Could you please attach here the CUE sheet with shorter filename?

[bogi]

paul3000h, the issue with CUE sheet si now clear. I have it already corrected, but the vrsion 1.1 doesn't contain yet the correction.

Please test the CUE sheet issue with ISO2DSF v1.1.1: https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B1IZPbDClIn6TEQyaFZuUkM1Uzg

 

About the tick issue, it's about many different tools including the playback software and settings, for example DSP plugins. Ted summarized many possible causes here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/how-do-you-store-dff-untagged-files-21780/index4.html#post356594

[bogi]

paul3000h, if you have downloaded the previous (v1.1) version of Miska's dff2dsf.exe, try it, if it has any relation to your issue. If would be good to know.

[bogi]

Cue sheet and txt appear identical using v1.1.1 and identical appearance in Foobar ie no tags just the Titles (read from the file names) as before.

 

I hope you are really testing with 1.1.1, because the code for generating CUE sheets is changed against 1.1.0. Please verify that carefully.

Please look at lines containing FILE in the generated CUE sheet and compare the filename in that lines with real filenames of DSF tracks. Please give here an example for one track. The file names in the CUE file should not contain other characters than alphanumeric, spaces, underscore and dash. I convert other characters to spaces.

[bogi]

Thanks. The CUE file is as I expected. No cfg file change.

Please try to drag&drop the CUE sheet into Foobar playlist. In this way it works for me.

 

I have question about your DFF tracks. How were they exactly created in Sonore ISO2DSD?

Did you choose DSDIFF Edit Master, or Philips DSDIFF? Is that one DFF file, or DFF files per track?

[bogi]

If I drag/drop .cue into foobar the tracks appear as cue extension ie I am playing from the cuesheet, see pic.

 

DFF tracks created in Sonore as Philips DSDIFF. 1 DFF files per 1 track.

 

Thanks. The CUE feature works how I implemented it. I use the column 'Codec' instead of 'Extension', then the correct audio file type is showed for CUE files.

 

You used the 'Philips DSDIFF' option. When I do it, set of DFF files is generated in album subdirectory and CUE file is generated in the ISO file directory (not in the album subdirectory). The generated CUE sheet is the same as for the 'DSDIFF Edit Master' option. It indexes a big DFF file, it doesn't reference track DFF files (only one FILE reference in the CUE sheet). The generated CUE is therefore usable only with the 'DSDIFF Edit Master' option. It's so in my case, so I'm not sure now, if we use the same sacd_extract (it's part of Sonore ISO2DSD). Could you pelase post here the CUE sheet, generated by Sonore ISO2DSD? It could help me to find the difference.

 

If you did tagging the DFF files in Foobar manually or using online services like freedb, that could be explanation for the difference. Foobar is able to tag DFF files, although no standard exists for that. To verify, if your DFF files are tagged, try to drag a DFF file from Windows Explorer and drop it to a playlist. If metadata will show in the corresponding columns, then your DFF file is tagged.

[bogi]

Also, for anyone else with similar problems I am now playing all SACD's direct from the iso's with perfect results, ie silence between tracks, having meticulously tagged them all with Foobar so in future could very easily and fairly quickly copy the Foobar .xml tags to DSF's (in Foobar as the tags are Foobars own solution).

 

Could you please give me an example, where do you find those .xml files? This topic is new for me, I would like to be more familiar with it.

[bogi]

I then write the tags (in properties same as for all files, wav, flac, dsf etc) Foobar then writes a xml file into the same folder as the iso is in. See example attached. Remove .txt as xml files barred.

 

Thanks for clarification. So your DFFs are probably tagged and that was the reason why they show differently in Foobar than untagged DSFs.

 

In the next version (which I will prepare probably during this weekend) I plan to implement automated tagging of the resulting DSF files.

[bogi]

Hi Bogi, I have 2 feature requests for ISO2DSF.

 

1. It would be great if there were an option to keep the dff files created on the way to dsf.

 

2. Limit folder name length

 

many thanks, Stephanie

 

I will do.

1. is easy to achieve, I will add an option into cfg file

2. is already implemented - see the last cfg file parameter

 

Now the album folder name (subfolder of ISO folder) is max. 100 characters by default, but you can lower it using that parameter.

[bogi]

if you try to do a DFF extraction without the DST checkbox checked (which Bogi defaults to in command line mode, aka the -c argument) the extraction will fly and finish in a few seconds, but the resultant DFF tracks may well click!!

That's 1st time I hear that DFF can also click. till now it was said that the click issue is related to sacd_extract -> DSF.

 

It's for me hard to understand the logic of English formulation "without the DST checkbox checked (which Bogi defaults to"

My ISO2DSF script always uses -c switch (convert DST to DSD) because Miskas DFF2DSF doesn't support DST.

 

I just spent the last hour or so comparing a Laura St John -Vivaldi ISO, which doesn't click as an ISO, doesn't click in Bogi's DFF or Miska-converted DSF output, doesn't click in Jesus's GUI with DST checked, but clearly clicks when extracting to DFF with no DST decompression. If you check the box you will get identical results to Bogi. So Paul's files may not be apples to apples.

 

Do you mean the clicks are related only to DST (compressed) SACDs? Are they related also to pure DSD ISOs (those which don't contain multichannel tracks)?

Or do you mean the DST checkbox has effect also in the case of DSD albums ???

 

No efforts to use Miska DFF2DSF conversion will remove those clicks if the DFF extraction was done incorrectly up front.

 

Incorrect extraction is meant the extraction with the DST checkbox unchecked. In the case of DST (compressed) album Miska's DFF2DSF cannot be used ... Thats leads me again to think, that the DST checkbox has effect also for uncompressed (DSD) SACDs.

 

Ted, please explain.

[bogi]

Weird I know, but I heard them myself today..clicks in DFF when not decompressing DST. And then, in that case, using Miska's converter is of no real use cuz the clicks are already there in DFF and remain there in DSF.

 

Make sense now?

 

This part still doesn't make me sense. Miska's converter cannot be used to process DST, because it doesn't accept DST, but only DSD input. But you observed clicks only with DST. You didn't mention any clicks related to DSD - the only format DFF2DSF can use.

 

If the clicks are specific for DST format and don't occur with DSD, then Miska's DFF2DSF is not helpful in removing clicks. I didn't try if Audiogate is able to convert compressed DST from DFF to DSF.

If Miska's DFF2DSF doesn't address the click issue, then my ISO2DSF brings no advantage over Sonore ISO2DSD.

 

My basic questions are:

Are the clicks specic for DST? Do they never occur with DSD SACDs?

Is that ''DST click' specific for sacd_extract? Does it depend on player SW?