Mutec MC-3+

[Miko]

Wow! I spent pretty much the whole day reading all 42 pages and i am impressed. I will be placing an order for (2) mc3usb's!! Looking forward to joining in the discussion. I am also very impressed with the fact that Julian is active on this board and can offer factory advice. So Hello everyone!!

[Miko]

Thanks! And I hope everyone had a safe and happy Christmas.

 

Now that I am going to add this double stack of sonic goodness, it brings up a project I have been neglecting. I would like to get a Mac mini for my computer source and I wanted to try the new music player software from Mark Levision (the man) and his current company Daniel Hertz

https://www.danielhertz.com/master-class-software

 

Julian, have you any experience with this software? I figure you might or know of someone since ML moved to Switzerland.

 

One more question that I don't remember seeing as being asked.

 

Since these only have 1 bidirectional USB port, in theory with 2 stacked, you could use 1 for source input and use the 2nd to output to the DAC.

 

I do also want to purchase a new DAC, my Tascam was never intended to be my reference. I'm looking at the new R2R linear compensated NOS Holo Audio Spring.

 

Thank you for your time...

[Miko]

Hello,

But you get a "license dongle"!! I mean how many music players can you think of at any price that includes that feature?? I swear if Mark Levison was a Fish and Chips guy in London you'd be paying dearly for lunch.. although I would think the fish would be of the highest fidelity....

 

In all fairness, yes it is expensive but I thought the digital implementation of the audio palette was intriguing enough to want to try it.

 

I think I understand now, I was confused with the term bi-directional. I have 2 sources, a pc with JRiver that I would output to the Mutec via USB and a Oppo 103 with the Audio Praise Vanity HD Card that outputs all 8 channels via Spdif.

 

So I can connect the pc to the 1st MC3 with USB then connect the MC3 to the next MC3 with a BNC Cable. Then AES or whatever you think sounds the best to my Tascam DA3K.

 

I wanted to try the Holo Spring DAC. So that is why I was wondering about USB output. But then again I don't think it'll matter as Spdif can handle 192.. I can play those high Rez formats and DSD directly from my Tascam.

 

Thank you...

[Miko]

I finally pulled the trigger on a mc3+USB... should have it in the system in a few days.. anything new to talk about? This thread kinda went dead.

[Miko]

Mutec spent a lot of time working on the power supply. It is something I haven't seen improved upon yet. I've been studying the mc3 for awhile and decided to finally purchase one myself.

[Miko]

If you plan on spending that kind of $$ on multiple mutecs's..why not just get a Deqx? Solve a lot of your problems and you wouldn't have a ton of equipment and cables...sound better then a minidsp too...

[Miko]

Oh yea.. if you haven't looked into a Deqx then I would suggest you do. You can run multiple crossovers and individual drivers.. it has a built in DAC and pre if you want.. speaker and room correction. It's just the thing for people building custom speakers. I spent a lot of time studying them as I wanted to incorporate it into my set up. 

 

I went with with a JL Audio CR-1 to use with my mains and subs.. although I still may get one for the room/speaker correction.

[Miko]

Has anyone tried the external word clock option with their DAC?

 

I know a couple other people have the Tascam DA3K, I do too.. my MC3usb should be here in a couple days. I'm interested in trying the word clock with my Tascam.

 

anyone try?

[Miko]

Just installed my MC3+USB and Holy Crap!! the sonic leap my system just took is real and shocking! This thing is awesome!!! Wow.... I need to adjust my Speakers to take advantage of this. I thought the Singer SU-1 was pretty good.. This is many, many levels past that.

 

I'm using a WIreworld Silver Starlight USB cable, Then a Gutwire Synchrony 2 SE AES/EBU cable out to my Tascam. I'm waiting for my new RCA cables to arrive.

 

For example, I'm listing to Fleetwood Mac "Family Man" from Tango in the night @ 192/32 Up-sampled from the remastered 96/24 album.

The space and definition is incredible. I am listening to it like it's the first time. The mid range leanness i thought was because i wasn't dialing in my crossover correctly is gone. There is real weight and body now. My SoundLabs are absolutely humming....

[Miko]

I had the Singxer SU-1... using the AES/EBU output was good. More separation and the music quality went up about 25-30%

 

replaced that With the Mutec and I would say the SQ jumped to 75% better. You know how you read reviewers talk about the "inky black background that the music seems to eminate from"?

 

It's like the SU-1 was on the edge of the event horizon and the Mutec plunged me squarely down the center of that inky black hole.

 

This is the first time my computer playback didn't sound like computer playback. I haven't even adjusted my system to fully encorporate the increased resolution and...I just hooked it up.

 

Zero hours break in... the results are tangible from straight out of the box and on my shelf.

I think I will buy another one or two... I'm that impressed... 

[Miko]

Hello,

 

No, I really have no actual real world experience with any of the so called "de crapifiers" I spend a good amount of time reading and learning. I was very interested in Mutec awhile ago, then decided the hype was overblown and didn't purchase one. Instead, I bought a SU-1 figuring I could save a substainal amount of money and achieve the same if not equal results.

 

After spending 3 weeks tweaking my system and doing all that I could, I felt as though something was missing. A quick visit to some friends who own very refined analog systems including Reel to Reel left me perplexed.

 

I came home, listened to the same tracks I just listened to on record, and one track that was an actual master tape and tried everything in my digital power to bring that feeling of life into my system and fell short of the mark. Upsample/downsample/native sample(?) played with filters and then I thought "ahh, it must be my pc.. the great Satan!" 

 

I pulled out my CD/DVD-A/SACD/XRCD and fired up my highly modified Oppo and let the discs spin. Feeding the digital outputs directly into my equally modified Tascam DA3K I inched closer to the reference sounds I heard.

 

Thats when I decided to pack up the SU-1 and send it home along with a Musical Paradise D2 that was buggy and ultimately broke down. I had a moment of clarity and knew the path to audio nirvana would include a drive by of Teutonic proportions.

 

Revisting my old notes, I went ahead called upon the fine folks at Markertec and they quickly sent along a MC3USB in Black. Very high quality USB cable? Check, top notch AES/EBU cable? Check! System went over and all settings optimized? Check! I even went one step further and picked up a 1tb M.2 SSD and external enclosure. I transferred all my music to it cleaned up my PC's HDD and installed the Mutec.

 

The driver install went with out a hitch, in mere moments I had sound coming out and sat down to see if the hundreds and thousands of posts were indeed on the mark. Without any additional tweaking I went ahead and mounted my audio assault with benchmark tracks.

 

After just a few minutes I realized that I am hearing excellent sound. I made a couple of quick adjustments and settled in for awhile and let the music flow. With JRiver set to play random tracks I was repeatedly delighted and impressed. When the track "Dryve" by Techmaster P.E.B. started I felt the power of four 10" subwoofers unleashed like never before. 

 

I felt it hit me and my whole body shook with delight. That's a very explosive and excellent test of a systems ability to reproduce the ultra low bass and my system with the Mutec delivered sub 20Hz slam that was epic and satisfyingly rumblistic!

 

Steely Dan's latest release is a overlooked treasure. Pixaleen was dynamic and detailed. Godwhacker was substantial and akin to a Thanksgivings Day Feast hosted by Romans who were nice enough to set up a vomitorium! 

 

Part two to follow!

[Miko]

I know the lights on the MC3USB are bright and numerous. For those among us who don't want to switch them off, here is an excellent tweak: http://www.lightdims.com/

 

I use it on all my stuff..I wish I would have come up with idea....Here is a pic of my tweaked MC3...

[Miko]

They do work well.. what I do is use a xacto knife. I pick up whatever size I need off the sheet with the tip of the knife and then place it perfectly over the light. Then press it on and slip the knife out.

 

I've always wondered if all these companies that use LEDS know that they are about 1000x's brighter then they need to be. 

 

Now all my equipment is softly illuminated and more "analog" looking. Here is a picture of my system in it's current iteration. I am in the process of moving it all to the right side wall and mounting the TV on the wall. Maybe mounting both subs on the wall too.. 

 

I've had a chance to play with different positions and behind the mains don't sound nearly as good as when they were in front of them.

[Miko]

2 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

Wow, came here looking into the Mutec and feel like I've fallen down a rabbit hole. Hard to believe how long the chain of devices and cords is getting for people (adding other reclockers, power supplies, etc.). And then DIY modifying too! - I wonder if I can just crawl back up to the light and forget I was ever here.

 

In some systems like mine, using a standard issue HP PC the Mutec was an incredible improvement in sound and provided a way via USB to pipe my files from PC to system.

 

I'm not a disciple of power cords...but I can say right out of the box and as soon as I played the first song I knew I had a keeper.

 

Like any hobby, you can get as extreme as you'd like. There's certainly no shortage of snake oil being peddled and promoted by unscrupulous companies and online/print magazines.

 

It can be overwhelming and that's no accident. Information overload is a well known and used tool for manipulation.

[Miko]

The dirty little secret is most recording studios mix, record at 96k.. very few do 192k and only a small handful record in hi rez I.e. DSD.

 

the equipment is terribly expensive so these places are not tearing out 5-6 figures worth of stuff to replace it with the same stuff that offers no real reason to do so aside from a small amount of additional headroom.

 

This whole hi rez upsampling, native DAD et al is pure marketing hype to sell product with the promise of better sound.

 

Fact is, the current redbook standard was based in part to be compatible with the recording equipment available at the time.

 

It's taken 30+ years for us to finally get decent sound out of CD and now I'm supposed to rush out and buy the latest and greatest DAC/transport because it can magically create "musical filler"? 

 

Upsampling is simply creating additional samples by approximation. You cannot recreate something from nothing. 128 x 0 = 0

 

That is why 2x/4x/100x oversampling doesn't sound good. You are injecting artificial recreated signal which is missing phase and timing cues or contains phase and timing cues in error. Which in part is giving rise to the current buzz word "dither" 

[Miko]

1 hour ago, pam1975 said:

Mutec is releasing shortly an external 10Mhz clock (above 3K euro though). 

 

I'm not sure it would be of much use in a home audio system. That money could be better spent cascading multiple Mutec's together no?

 

Has anyone tried the external clocking feature with a DAC? I don't see in the owners manual a way to reclock and externally clock at the same time.

 

Besides, Mutec already has the iclock..

[Miko]

I think for the price of 3 MC3's, I'd rather do that then one word clock that's really designed to be used in studios to sync multiple digital devices together.. I can't see how that could be better then a fleet of MC3's...

[Miko]

Hmm.. maybe if I could find a lightning to aes/ebu cable? And then I'd need a portable battery pack.....I maybe could answer yes ?

[Miko]

18 minutes ago, r11bordo said:

I'm looking Mutec in order to challenge and perhaps replace a Singxer F-1 and a dxio Pro3z. Regarding the used hifi system, the result provided by these interfaces is quite different. 

 

I bought a Singxer SU-1 and had it for about 3 weeks. I replaced it with the MC3USB and the difference was instantly noticeable.

 

I have found that the AES/EBU connection always sounds better (in my system) then SP/DIF. And I have a very expensive top of the line Kimber SP/DIF Kable..

 

My system has lost the digital sound and has become much more analog in its presentation without the attendant shortcomings of analog.

 

The Singxer products do what they are designed to do. They are also reasonably priced. I think in the right application i.e. non critical / low resolution / budget or 2nd system they would fit the bill perfectly.

 

No amount of tweaking à la Kitsune and his power supply upgrades in my opinion can elevate the SU-1 up to the level of the Mutec.

 

In fact, I've been so impressed with the performance of my Mutec that I am going to purchase another one and cascade them.

 

I've read that four is about the practical limit for cascading them. I'll be trying 2 very soon.

You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain stepping up to Mutec.

[Miko]

So the question is: is it better to use a external clock to your DAC instead of reclocking?

 

I'm trying to figure out why in a home audio system we would need an external word clock.

 

In a studio, you have multiple digital devices that need to be synced up. At home you'd have a transport and DAC.

[Miko]

Grimm Audio has a white paper or two detailing the reason why atomic clocks and external clocks are sorta pointless in home audio.

 

Like most things in this hobby, once you've reached a certain point, improvements become incremental.

 

The move to a ssd drive to house my music library was a noticeable and welcome improvement. I bought a 850 evo 1tb ssd and a external enclosure. I use a dedicated USB 3 port and my music loads instantly. No matter what the format. From MP3 to quad DSD it starts immediately and I think it sounds a touch better.

 

The Mutec has been to date the most jaw dropping improvement I've had since purchasing the (now defunct)  BSG Tech Qol.

 

It makes expensive dedicated media servers a useless waste of money. (Although I do think the Aurender W20 is frikin kick ass, but no way am I shelling out that kind of Chedder)

 

My plan is to keep adding Mutec's... I'd like to ultimately have 4. Is anyone currently running multiple Mutec's?

 

I agree, the added cost of an external clock vs the "maybe" incremental improvement vs cascaded Mutec's does not seem worth it.

 

Wouldnt an external clock defeat the whole reclocking scheme anyway because your reclocking w/ a external clock?

[Miko]

I agree, but then how much of that improvement is negated by another power supply and set of cables? I have a DAC with word clock inputs (Tascam DA3000) I have yet to try that option as most external clocks are just too much $$ to play with.

 

 

[Miko]

On 4/26/2017 at 5:19 AM, One and a half said:

 

The MC-3+USB's LEDs can be switch off in one go, if you wish.

Press the Menu + Select buttons together, and only the Power and lock LED will light up.

 

Yes, that's true. Although I do like the light show when everything else is off. 

[Miko]

" A converter with a “slow” narrowband PLL mated to a low-jitter internal oscillator won’t change much in sound between running off its internal clock or a high-quality external one. A converter with a “fast” wideband PLL, which is often employed to reduce the jitter of the paired internal oscillator, can sound better with a high-quality external clock. On the other hand, a converter with a “fast” PLL mated to a low-jitter oscillator might actually sound worse when running off an external reference that exhibits more jitter than the internal oscillator. "

 

Thats the point... and why I thought the MC3USB was the answer to dealing with all that crap... no doubt I'm sure a few hardy souls will pony up for the new clock... but to me, I'm thinking why? Way too many variables to take into account and it skews the cost to benefit ratio... at $1,100 the MC3 is akin to a sore penis.. you can't beat it. 

 

 

[Miko]

As long as they keep the prices competitive.