Mutec MC-3+

[*progear]

Hello everybody,

 

I took home a brand new master clock from the studio for the Sunday to check on its reclocking ability in my home setup. It's the new Mutec MC-3+, probably the first one that shipped to Scotland. What can I say - it is really good.

 

Test setup:

imac -- modified Hiface2 -- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mutec MC-3+ -- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mytek 192 DSD

vs imac -- Mytek 192 DSD via Firewire.

 

The improvement (better bass definition..) felt quite dramatic to my ears and therefore I think the Mutec is absolutely worth the 675 pound it cost. I also attached it to my satellite receiver (optical in) and the improvement there was simply breathtaking. The Mutec also bested the Big Ben we have in the studio and btw, over here you'd get two Mutecs for the price of one Big Ben.

I was so impressed with the little Mutec that I keep thinking about getting one myself.

I only toyed around with the reclocking function, yet with the Mutec one could also clock the Hiface Evo and the Mytec and still reclock the signal.

I am not sure whether the Mutec would improve the sound of DACs of the likes of Meitner or Stagetec, but to the more affordable high-end DACs it might be an upgrade worth considering.

It is a great piece of gear.

 

MUTEC - Professional A/V and High-End Equipment - MC-3+

[*progear]

Oh,

 

just found that test setup is incorrect; it should say:

imac -- modified Hiface2 -- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mutec MC-3+ -- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mytek 192 DSD

vs imac -- Mytek 192 DSD via Firewire.

vs imac -- modified Hiface2 -- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mytek 192 DSD

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Hi Ulli,

 

I just skimmed through these twenty pages of the thread you quoted; quite interesting in places. Since we now do have two Mutec MC3+ (the BigBen is history) I think I could perform a cascade test in the near future. Obviously you Germans got the toy first, but I still find it amazing that the thing has not created more of a stirr on this forum.

[*progear]

Hi Ulli,

 

I managed to kidnap the two Mutec MC3+ yesterday and put them to the test this evening.

 

test setup: modified Hiface2 -- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mutec MC-3+-- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mutec MC-3+ -- Apogee Wyde Eye -- Mytek 192 DSD -- ADAM S4X-H, files at different sample rates, Samplitude.

 

With the second Mutec the sound got even crisper, bass and soundstage more defined, simply brilliant. Very impressive. The Mutec is a gem.

 

What made you aware of this nice box? - just a couple of weeks after it was released here in Germany.

 

A collegue of mine surfed the Mutec page, we were in the market for another clock for a project studio, the new Mutec seemed cheap and that is why we gave it a try. Meanwhile we have sold the Big Ben, the Mutec is such a bargain...

In our studio we are quite fond of German audio gear. We love Schoeps, Brauner, Sennheiser/K&H/Neumann, Beyerdynamic, RME, SPL, KS Digital, ME Geithain, Adam…

[*progear]

I know I'm going to hate myself for asking, but why string two MC-3+'s together?

And how are they connected to one another?

 

Hi Joel,

 

I connected the gear by SPDIF cable. Apparently the reclocking gives you a better signal and re-reclocking can improve that even further.

 

Hope that helps.

[*progear]

Just found this video:

[video=youtube;4q-T4XnUCeE]

 

They talk about the new 3+ USB.

Beneath 3+ USB there is a new Mutec 10 MHz clock - will have much better spec than any Rb clock I know ,-)

 

Ulli

 

Wow! This sounds very interesting. Studio clock/reclocker plus USB converter at a very attractive price point. Any idea how much the 10M is going to be? How do you know about specs?

 

Best regards

[*progear]

Mutec MC-1.2 Bi-directional USB & Digital Audio Interface along with the MC-3+ Smart Clock recently ordered.

 

Hi Bill,

 

good choice. The new gear will certainly be fun. Please report!

Weren't you tempted to wait for the MC3+ USB? Cannot be that long.

 

Cheers

[*progear]

One can select "English" as an option at the top right corner of the Mutec page. Here's the link:

MUTEC - Professional A/V and High-End Equipment - MC-3+ USB

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But the product manual for MC-3+ USB is still only in German text!

 

True. English manual won't be long, I guess. Street price just below €1000.

Mutec MC-3+ USB | Smart Clock + USB-Interface - hifi12a

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Hi Julian,

 

the MC3+ USB will come at a premium price - for a converter. Once you add a rather cheapish external 10M clock source, e. g. a used Morion MV89a, it is going to be a game changer. Since users on CA seem to be more interested in converters than they are in studio clocks, Mutec certainly have taken the right marketing decision targeting the audiophile market with a combination of their MC3+ (studio clock, reclocker) and the new MC1.2 (converter) in just one box.

 

Hi Guys,

 

just stumbled upon my own predictions made almost a year ago...

Well, I was certainly wrong about the 10M business. Since I had the chance to test the MC3+ USB for a week I must say that it is definitely an improvement over the "classic" model, as far as the reclocking is concerned. The internal clocking is of even better quality, thus your cheapo DIY 10M clock is unlikely to improve anything. My MV89a, which I so far considered a good build, could not do a thing (and I liked that one better than the rather expensive Antelope 10M I checked out at a friend's studio).

So the new MC3+ USB is really a very, very good new product.

But then a friend from Germany came over last weekend and showed off his new Acousense AFI-USB, a piece of gear that also works as a converter and does some sort of reclocking. Wow, if anything is a game changer, that thing is. It is 50% more expensive than the new Mutec, though. Reclocking apparently has become a bit of a German speciality.

[*progear]

Hi Westy,

 

I haven't checked iputs/outputs. AES cables are certainly good, yet there is a problem since even Neutrik do not specify the impedance of their plugs, it should be at 110 Ohm. For BNC it easy to get those plugs, therefore a reflection-free cable should doable. That I think, is what Mutec intended there. In my "old" MC3+ there's a something wrong with the SPDIF, impedance is not 75 Ohm, therefore I use AES which is at 110, as it should.

[*progear]

Interesting development. Did you have the opportunity to listen to it yourself ?

Hi SwissBear,

 

yes, I did listen to it and found it amazing. It impressed me even more than the new Mutec, in the end I think both devices are absolutely worth the money.

Since I do use my Mutec as a proper studio clock every now and then, I should add that the Acousense AFI does not provide this functionality. It is "just" a reclocker for mastering/listening purposes.

[*progear]

the Hype needs no more...

Hi everybody,

 

what hype?

Few people talked about reclocking on this forum up until a year ago. Products such as Apogee Big Ben have been around for quite a while, but it really was the Mutec MC3+ which made this product category interesting for audiophiles, offering much more bang for the buck. Within a rather short period of time new products by Mutec and Acousence (and possibly others) appeared providing even better results. Developers have learned their lesson and equipped their latest babies with USB inputs and therefore became more interesting to the world of audiophiles.

Sadly, few here are interested in clocks. I think many are fixated on async transmission being some sort of panacea. I will be watching this product closely...

I cannot see any hype yet, these products now are just getting the attention they deserve.

 

Which model did you listen to? And would you mind elaborating on what configurations of Acousense vs Mutec you compared, i.e. source, connection type, cascading etc. And what specifically does the Acousense do better than Mutec?

 

Hi Accwai,

 

as I said, a friend from Germany paid me a visit and took his AFI with him. We did compare the reclockers, but in the end we only had about an hour, because we were bound to see a few laddies at my local pub.

In short:

3rd rank: MacPro, USB-> MC1.2->MC3+"classic"+DIY 10M->Lynx Aurora->Neumann KH 420

2nd rank: MacPro, USB-> MC3+ USB->Lynx Aurora->Neumann KH 420

1st rank: MacPro, USB-> Acousense AFI->Lynx Aurora->Neumann KH 420

We used Apogee AES cables.

It is a bit hard to tell what made the Acousense even better than the new Mutec other than it sounded even more natural to me.

 

[*progear]

Because unlike most of the audiophile world, I'm pretty entrenched in physical CD. So much so that in the past year, I have more or less given up on building a computer front end, which in turn means I have no need for USB.

 

Should have been more precise; I was indeed talking about computer audiophiles. Sorry, cannot answer your question since we only tried USB.

 

Did you try with DSD at all? I think the Aurora does not support higher than 192KHz, yes?

 

Sorry again, did neither try DSD nor bitrates higher than 192 KHz. In my view there is little need for anything beyond PCM 24/192.

[*progear]

maybe is an answer but i would like to hear the engineer side: is a super external clock with 20 inches of wire is more stable than a 1ps internal clock ?

 

I've tried the Mutec MC3+USB with and without my DIY-10M. The internal clock seemed better to my ears. With the MC3+ it is the other way round.

External clocks require reflection-free cabling, matching impedance is a must, including plugs (which as always, is the hardest bit) and don't forget proper termination! 20 inches and quite a bit longer than that should be no problem at all.

 

What really matters in a clock is phase noise, absolute accuracy is overrated, i e. nobody will hear any difference between a 9999.9999 Hz and a 10000.0001 Hz clock.

In my view Mutec have done a good job there, probably only the best 10Ms out there will best the internal clock.

 

The idea behind reclocking is to use a very clever PLL (phase-locked loop) design to pass on a "cleansed" signal to the DAC and that leaves your DAC's own PLL less work to do. That also kinda explains why cascading several MC3+ still improves the sound.

I guess that the new MC3+USB already has some sort of internal cascade PLL, my speculation.

 

After all the above clock-talk one more belief:

The clock that matters most for music reproduction is that of the DAC.

[*progear]

I am not sure if this is a problem but the output of the Cybershaft rubidium clock is 50ohms and the clock input of the Mutec is 75ohms. Cybershaft website says its not an issue. What does every one else think?

 

 

Hi!

Basically any 50 Ohm 10M can be just as good as any 75 Ohm 10M. The difference with the Mutec MC3+ USB is that it provides internal termination for 75 Ohm - which can be deactivated. You would have to use an external terminator for a 50 Ohm model. Correct cabling and proper connectors are terribly important!

 

Hope that helps.

[*progear]

What would deactivating the 750hm termination do?

 

Once the internal termination is deactivated one can use any external terminator to do the job. You would also need a BNC Tee connector.

[*progear]

Thank you that helps a lot. Now, can someone recommend a good quality 50ohm cable?

 

The AIRCELL7 is really good. There are also high quality 50 Ohm BNC connectors for that cable. Highly recommended.

[*progear]

 

5 hours ago, Miko said:

I'm not sure it would be of much use in a home audio system. That money could be better spent cascading multiple Mutec's together no?

 

 

At the very fist pages of this thread this question has already been discussed. At the time we only had the "old" MC3+ which benefitted even from cheapo DIY OCXOs. Thus I would say that we will simply have to wait and see/hear whether the external clock will improve the clocking/quality of the digital signal even further. In the end it always comes down to bang for bucks. Mutec are great developers, I would not be surprised if the new clock was more than just a step up.

Btw. I still hold the view that the greatest bang for the buck at the moment is to be found in the little afi by acousence which is based on a different concept but does a wonderful job cleaning the signal.

 

On 29.3.2016 at 1:50 PM, *progear said:

To my ears the AFI is just as good as Raimund claims. Compared it to the Mutec MC3+ USB. .... it certainly is the best I have tried so far.

 https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/27421-afiusb-module-usb-interface-isolator-and-re-clocker/#comment-521686

 

[*progear]

7 minutes ago, *progear said:

 

 

[*progear]

9 minutes ago, Miko said:

 

So the question is: is it better to use a external clock to your DAC instead of reclocking?

 

I'm trying to figure out why in a home audio system we would need an external word clock.

 

In a studio, you have multiple digital devices that need to be synced up. At home you'd have a transport and DAC.

 

 

Clocking your DAC by an external master clock will not help much in many cases. Instead, reclocking an AES/SPDIF signal is very likely to help with a lot of DACs - simply because the input section of the DAC - PLL has less work to do. 

A 10M clock can be used to further improve the MC3+. With the "old" MC3+ relatively cheap DIY 10Ms had a positive effect, with the USB model the internal clock is already very good so I guess it will take a really good 10M to do any good. I would not doubt that Mutec do have a point in releasing their 10M. There certainly will be an audible improvement of some kind.

At the price point of such a system there may also be other options to be considered for hifi nerds.

[*progear]

11 minutes ago, Fyper said:

Not sure I understand this: if an external clock is used, then no work is required from the input section of the DAC - PLL, that work is done by the external clock.

 

Hope that helps: 

"With that said, let’s be clear that there’s plenty of talk — both marketing and research driven — on whether external clocks can actually improve the sound of converters, or if converters sound better when they’re running on their 

internal clocks. So far, the best discussions I’ve seen on the topic are in several whitepapers that are downloadable from the publications page of Grimm Audio’s [Tape Op #75] website <grimmaudio.com>. These papers mirror the conversations I’ve had with several leading ADC and DAC designers. Here’s my greatly simplified paraphrase:

To synchronize to an external reference signal, a converter typically utilizes a PLL circuit controlling an internal oscillator. Compromises exist in choosing a PLL design that favors the internal oscillator or the external reference. A converter with a “slow” narrowband PLL mated to a low-jitter internal oscillator won’t change much in sound between running off its internal clock or a high-quality external one. A converter with a “fast” wideband PLL, which is often employed to reduce the jitter of the paired internal oscillator, can sound better with a high-quality external clock. On the other hand, a converter with a “fast” PLL mated to a low-jitter oscillator might actually sound worse when running off an external reference that exhibits more jitter than the internal oscillator. And a converter with a “slow” PLL driving a suboptimal internal oscillator will always sound bad, no matter the reference.

Conclusion: A “slow” PLL converter, good or bad, won’t sound any better with an external clock. But a high-quality external clock can improve the performance of a “fast” PLL converter. Moreover, an external clock with lower close-in phase noise (narrowband jitter at frequencies close to the carrier frequency) has a better chance of improving the sound of a “fast” PLL converter. 

All that is a long-winded way of saying that the MC-3+ Smart Clock is a great choice for a master clock because it exhibits exemplary ultra- low-jitter performance — especially in regards to close-in phase noise — due to MUTEC’s 1G-Clock Technology, a variation on the Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) method of generating clock signals from a fixed-frequency reference clock."

source: https://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/pdf/MUTEC_press_03-2015-1_ED.pdf