Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!

[Franatic]

I have a DAC2 DSDse and would totally be into upgrading it to V2. I was aware that this DAC had an upgradable design when I bought it. I'm hoping W4S can do it.

[Franatic]

I have a DAC2 DSDse and would totally be into upgrading it to V2. I was aware that this DAC had an upgradable design when I bought it. I'm hoping W4S can do it.

 

I talked with Tony Holt today and he said they will be offering a V2 upgrade for DAC2 DSDse owners.....using the 9038Pro chip. This is great news. They have yet to work out all the details. Tony says that will be forthcoming after the Black Friday specials end. Makes me happy I went down their path.

 

Send Tony an email and he'll let you know when the upgrade plan is worked out and available.

[email protected]

 

Kudos for W4S...........awesome

[Franatic]

I am getting the 9038 upgrade to my DAC2 DSDse (when available). Has anybody used the i2s input? Does it play DSD?

 

Hopefully the 9038 can reach it's full potential in their upgrade. However, I've already been informed AES and digital coax will not play DSD, a very unfortunate W4S design limitation. I'm still holding out hope for i2s playing DSD

[Franatic]

Thanks edn4x4!

 

I found this also: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/w4s-dac2-dsdse-direct-stream-digital-over-i2s-28331/#post534199

 

Seems like it should play DSD up to DSD 128, at least as Dop. I will look to get confirmation directly from W4S on this.

[Franatic]

Page 3 second paragraph of the user manual states: The I²S DSD format offers a jitter free solution to transmi?ng digital data from our cu?ng edge USB interface to the Sabre chip. Newly implemented technology and hardware now takes full advantage of this remarkable feature feature. Either DSD64 or DSD128 files can be flawlessly streamed in conjunction with standard PCM files.

 

Of course, the manual! I should have checked there first. Great, that verifies what I need to know. After modification, maybe i2s will do DSD 256 with the 9038 chip.

[Franatic]

My SDtrans384 streamed DSD256 to W4S Dac-2DSDse by LVDS via HDMI interface. It is already perfectly working, no need waiting 9038 chip.

Thanks pm! That is good news. Well I'm getting the 9038 upgrade for sure, already paid for it and I'm waiting for W4S to tell me to send it in. I might be able to borrow a Singxer SU-1 to try the i2s down the line. Nice to know the W4S DAC2 DSDse already does Quad DSD via i2s.

[Franatic]

Now the W4S site says the 9038 chips are delayed until early March...bummer. I'm sure there is nothing W4S can do about that. I expect EJ has made a concerted effort to maximize the capability of this awesome new chip in an already designed DAC. Big kudos to W4S for creating an upgradable platform for their DACs.

I'm wondering how much better the 9038 is vs the 9028 in the W4S application. However, I'm not waiting for a side by side comparison, so 9038 it is.

[Franatic]

Is anyone still experiencing issues with the new chip?

 

I am also waiting for my DAC with the 9038 update to be returned. W4S informed me of the delay due to DSD issues. Likely this issue has to do with Roon. However, I understand their reluctance to ship until they fully comprehend what is going on. I was told they are working with the lead designer of the ESS Sabre 9038 on this issue.

Hopefully, we will have a solution soon. I have a modified Singxer SU-1 and will try out the i2s input. Very eager to hear this.

[Franatic]

Please let us know how the i2s sounds.

 

I will run a comparison between straight usb and i2s via the Singxer SU-1. I have a very good usb transport:

PPAv4 card(TeraDak +5) > dual headed Pachanko usb cable > Intona > Pachanko RUR link > W4S Recovery(HDPlex 9 volts)

I purchased a Wireworld Starlight 7.0 HDMI 0.3 Meter cable to carry the i2s. This is an awesome looking cable, hope it sounds great.

 

I have a Sound Affairs modification kit with Elite BDC arriving tomorrow from Singapore.

Singxer SU-1 with PLiXiR Elite BDC modification – Sound Affairs

I'll post my impressions here.

[Franatic]

Emailed Tony Holt yesterday asking what is going on. His reply was they are making progress but not fully resolved yet, and hoping it won't be much longer.

 

Yes, Tony told me pretty much the same thing on Wednesday. I am glad they identified the issue prior to sending my DAC back to me. The question is whether it is a design flaw in the chip or in the W4S application circuitry. Hopefully a solution is coming soon.

 

In the meantime, The Singxer SU-1 is sounding awesome with the iFi micro idsd in my setup. The micro is a little under the SQ of the W4S by itself via usb. However, adding the Singxer and inputting the micro's coax brought it near equal to the W4S. Now with the Sound Affairs Plixer Elite BDC mod to the SU-1, my system is sounding better than ever. This really makes me want the modified DAC ASAP! If the Singxer can boost the performance of the micro this much, I am very optimistic of its performance with the W4S via its i2s input. The Singxer SU-1 is most impressive, clearly beating an SOtM with superclock and BPSU that cost much more.

[Franatic]

Tony and EJ

Fantastic news! Great job guys..........and thanks for the explicit detailing of the issues for us. I look forward to this awesome upgrade. To address and correct this complex issue within a week is impressive.

[Franatic]

Supposed to be shipping end of the week. Dying to get the system up and running again!

+2

Did anybody get an email/notice that there modified 9038 DAC is shipping yet?

[Franatic]

I received an email from W4S that my shipping label has been created for UPS. That's almost shipped. So I will have it back early next week. Anticipa-a-tion is making me wait.....But it won't be long now.

[Franatic]

Thanks for the update, E J! Excellent pictures. It kind of looks like a F9038 stealth fighter. I am sure it will get years of flying time. It excites me that you speak so highly of its performance in your implementation. Your company has handled the 9038 issues perfectly and I'm very happy that you are sharing the details.

 

Thats great to hear your performance feedback, jrsub. I guess you have to consider sending it in for the stealth treatment. Running at cooler temperatures should increase performance and lifespan.

[Franatic]

I received my upgraded(9038) DAC last night. It sounds fantastic right out of the box. I am using USB input with my very developed usb transport system(PPA V4 > intona > RUR > iPrurifier 2). Very engaging and musical with an increased command and presence. Great clarity and detail. I imagine the depth and soundstage will increase as it burns in, but it is already very impressive and a clear upgrade over its previous 9018 incarnation.

 

I was not able to get the i2s to work. I tried the normal, the left justified and the right justified settings in the W4S setup with no luck. The switches on the SU-1 are in the off(default) position, which matches the PS Audio protocol. I was told somewhere that W4S follows the same protocol, but I can not find documentation. If anyone knows please share here. I will contact Wyred, do research, and see if I can get the i2s working this weekend. I will post here if I do.

[Franatic]

I received my upgraded(9038) DAC last night. It sounds fantastic right out of the box. I am using USB input with my very developed usb transport system(PPA V4 > intona > RUR > iPrurifier 2). Very engaging and musical with an increased command and presence. Great clarity and detail. I imagine the depth and soundstage will increase as it burns in, but it is already very impressive and a clear upgrade over its previous 9018 incarnation.

 

I was not able to get the i2s to work. I tried the normal, the left justified and the right justified settings in the W4S setup with no luck. The switches on the SU-1 are in the off(default) position, which matches the PS Audio protocol. I was told somewhere that W4S follows the same protocol, but I can not find documentation. If anyone knows please share here. I will contact Wyred, do research, and see if I can get the i2s working this weekend. I will post here if I do.

 

The SU-1 mentioned is the Singxer SU-1 audio bridge. Its role is to convert usb to i2s.

[Franatic]

@Franatic,

We do internal I2S tests here using a PS Audio PWT, so the pin configuration should work with other products configured as PS Audio. Not sure why it wouldn’t? Perhaps a setting in the Singxer needs to be adjusted?

I’m not sure I gave you this information before, here is the pin config for our I2S:

https://wyred4sound.com/faq/what-dac-2-dsd-dsdse-i2s-pin-configuration

 

Let us know if you have any other questions. Ultimately, if needed you can send both units here and we can take a look.

 

Thanks, Tony. I didn't spend a lot of time last night trying to figure out why the i2s wasn't playing properly. The result I got was the left channel only playing and that was incredibly noisy. I am sure it is some configuration issue. I went to the usb rather quickly because I wanted to hear music. I will spend more time this weekend and figure out the issue.

[Franatic]

Tonight I retried the Singxer SU-1 > i2s > W4s method and it worked. It must have been my setup in the W4S when I tried it last night. It sounds exquisite. Another level of refinement from straight usb input. Imaging is HD clear and background is jet black. This is the most relaxed and organic my system has ever sounded. Inner details in the music I've never heard before. So realistic it has startled me several times. I'm going to be up late tonight......can't stop listening.

SU-1 setup is all switches off(default) and W4S i2s menu setting in normal. My SU-1 has the Sound Affairs Plixir Elite BDC power supply modification https://www.mysoundaffairs.com/collections/modifications/products/singxer-su-1-with-plixir-elite-bdc-modification

 

I am using a Wireworld Starlight 7 HDMI cable in a 0.3 meter length. I think this is a very good cable for i2s audio. It is extremely well made and I like the very short length.

 

This whole new configuration needs a good burn-in period. I can't imagine how much better it will sound. I can heartily recommend this setup.

[Franatic]

Last night I reported a playback issue with i2s. Tonight it worked beautifully. Both statements are true. I figured out the issue. i2s works perfectly with DSD64 and DSD128, which is all I played for a while tonight. Unfortunately, i2s is not working in my setup with PCM. When playing 96khz flac via i2s I get garbled sound and only in one speaker and the display flashes DSD 256. It seems the problem resides in the W4S. I can play the 96khz flac into the W4S coax input from the Singxer SU-1 no problem. It also sounds great but I want to play all files via i2s. I will investigate some more this weekend.

[Franatic]

I did some more investigating of the Singxer SU-1 i2s issue with my W4S DAC. Working through issues is cumbersome when you are using Bug Head and your audio pc is in core mode. After hours of playing around and troubleshooting I've gotten a clearer idea of the issues.

 

1) Playing DSD via the Singxer i2s output works great and is fantastic.......I mean outrageously good............super fantastic!!

 

2) Playing PCM via i2s has issues.

    a) The audio only plays in one channel and is very distorted. This audio is identified by the W4S as DSD, but is not. The Singxer has a dislay LED for DSD and it does not illuminate.

    b) After stopping PCM playback via i2s, the Singxer SU-1 will not start playback the next time a playback is started. This only occurs with PCM playing and i2s selected on the W4S menu. The Singxer needs to be power cycled to return to normal functionality.

    c) If you select Coax or AES and play PCM, the Singxer has no issue. When I do this I can leave the i2s cable conected between the SU-1 and W4S and it causes no problem.

 

*****Note 1:The problem only occurs with i2s selected on the W4S and PCM playing. The Singxer doesn't care what is connected to it because there is no output selector switch. So I can have the i2s cable connected but if I don't select i2s on the W4S menu, no problem occurs. It seems to be caused by the W4S, but I am going to pass this to Wyred at this point for technical support. I wonder if anybody else is using i2s with the SU-1/W4S or if I'm the first. It will be interesting to find what ksalno discovers when he gets his dac back from upgrade.

 

******** Note 2: PS Audio designates pins 15 and 16 of the HDMI i2s connector as used and labels them SCL and SDA. Singxer uses them and labels them as DSD ON outputs. W4S has them labeled not used. Since the problem is that PCM is labeled as DSD on the Wyred, this may have something to do with the issue. I obviously need technical support to go further in investigating this issue.

Here is the i2s protocol page:

http://screencast.com/t/vr7t2RNg

Also here is the Singxer manual, note page 9

 

I am very excited about the sound quality of the i2s DSD. I am determined to get the i2s PCM working.

SU-1 digital interface user manual _20160708.pdf

[Franatic]

Wyred For Sound has contacted me about the Singxer SU-1 i2s issues. They will prepay to have my Singxer sent to them. They will evaluate the i2s issue and come up with the solution.  

I love doing business with W4S. Thanks Tony & E J.

 

[Franatic]

9 hours ago, jojeong8338 said:

On current plans, the upgraded DAC2v2se will be shipped to KOREA soon. I have a plan to connect Singxer SU-1 to the upgraded DAC over I2S as well. If Tony and E J. find the proper solution and firmware upgrade is necessary, I hope to upgrade DAC with new one. Franatic, Many thanks for your careful testing and posting, lol~~~

 

 

You're welcome, jojeong. As superb as the Singxer i2s is, I am sure there will be others following suit. I also predict it will be a firmware solution to the PCM issue. I'm sure E J will figure it out.

[Franatic]

1 hour ago, ksalno said:

My upgraded DAC2v2 is supposed to arrive today. I will let it burn-in for 24 hours (I'm going to a live concert tonight anyway) and will then test DSD with both the SU-1 and the Hydra-Z via i2s to see what the results are and report back.

Karl

Karl, I'm very interested in your comparison of the SU-1 and Hydra-Z and impressions of the i2s in general.

My SU-1 was modified with the Sound Affairs Plexir Elite BDC:

https://www.mysoundaffairs.com/collections/modifications/products/singxer-su-1-with-plixir-elite-bdc-modification

More expensive than the SU-1 itself, but well worth doing to get the kind of performance I was looking for.

My SU-1 is on the way to W4S, they'll have it Monday and hopefully solve the PCM issues. You should have no issue playing DSD. I guess you can try PCM in your setup. Be prepared to power cycle the SU-1 after you try to restore the DSD playback.

BTW, the modification is a 5 volt supply........that's all you need, upgrade the 5 volts to the SU-1 PC Board.

[Franatic]

1 hour ago, ksalno said:

Thanks for the tip Franatic. I also have the Plexir PS for my SU-1. I also have the outboard PS for the Hydra-Z, so it will be an apples to apples comparison. I will try PCM and report back.

Plixir Elite or Plixir Elementa? I have Elite.

What i2s(HDMI) cable do you have? I'm using a 0.3m Wireworld Starlight 7

[Franatic]

1 hour ago, ksalno said:

I also have the Plixir Elite and the Platinum Starlight 7 HDMI shorty cable. I also have a variety of AQ and other quality HDMI cables to play with but all of them are at least 1M.

You have a primo setup. You went all out and got the Platinum Starlight! It should sound fantastic.