What source and amplification would you use to drive KEF LS50 speakers?

[Ajax]

Hi All,

 

My nephew, who loves music but is neither an audiophile or technically inclined, is building a new terrace house in an inner suburb of Sydney, and asked for my advice on how to set up his entertainment system. The house is really small and his entertainment room will encompass the living room, dining room and kitchen, about 10' x 20'. The speakers will be directed across the short side of the room, i.e. he will be sitting only 8' from the speakers themselves.

 

We visited a couple of retailers and he fell in love with the KEF LS50 speakers and has his heart set on them. Having now heard them I now know what all the fuss is about. In such a small space I'm convinced they will not require the assistance of a subwoofer.

 

Assuming a total budget of $US1,000 (not including the KEF speakers) what source and amplification (separate or integrated) would you suggest to drive the KEFs based on the following assumptions:

 

1. Small listening area 90% of the time but will want to play reasonably loud when the patio doors will be opened for parties but less than 100db

2. Music source will be a combination of local files ripped to a hard drive and streaming (Spotify and maybe Tidal in the future)

3. He has an Apple TV 3

4. They are not IT proficient and need something user friendly, however, both are competent with apple computers

5. Wants to play media from cable, Apple Movies and Netflix through the "system" via the "optical out" from his smart TV.

6. We have wired the house with CAT6 and do not require wireless

 

Specification for KEF LS50 speakers

 

Design Two-way bass reflex

HF: 25mm (1in.) vented aluminium dome

LF/MF: 130mm (5.25in.)

Frequency range (-6dB) 47Hz - 45kHz

Frequency response (±3dB) 79Hz - 28kHz

Crossover frequency 2.2kHz

Amplifier requirements 25 - 100 W

Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 85dB

Harmonic distortion 2nd & 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m) <0.4% 175Hz-20kHz

Maximum output 106dB

Nominal impedance 8Ω (min. 3.2Ω)

Dimension (H x W x D) 11.9 x 7.9 x 10.9 in

 

We are considering simply adding a MAC Mini but really would appreciate opinions about other sources such as the Auralic Mini, and would really like to hear your thoughts on the level of amplification required to properly drive the KEFs. My initial thought is that we run HDMI from the various sources (cable, apple TV, Mac mini) into the smart TV and then optical out to the "system" for the sound. This way you can select everything using the TV remote without having to change the system's inputs.

 

Thanks in Advance.

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

Hi David and Eloise,

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

Yes David the TV has to be on.

 

My concern with using an AV, whether Denon or Marantz, is that it will not be powerful enough to properly drive the LS50s and that the internal DACs will not be of significant quality. Jimmy powder wrote in a another thread that the Arcam A19 integrated amp (rated at 50 watts) was insufficient to properly drive them. From all reports this is actually a very good amp.

 

Question: If I play the LS50 via an AV in 2 channel stereo is there someway I can redirect the "spare" power from the surround channels that are not being used to the the LS50s, knowing they have only one + and one - speaker inputs i.e. they cannot be bi wired.

 

My nephew's emphasis is on music playback and I was thinking that such fine speakers, that are fairly insensitive at 85db, deserve an excellent front end to reach their potential. If I can convince my nephew to increase his budget to say US$1,500 would that help?

 

My current thinking is:

 

1. Auralic Mini ($550) with RCA out into an secondhand stand alone power amp of around 125 watts such as the Parasound Halo A23 ($550 say) or

 

2. Mac Mini into an Integrated AMP with built in DAC like the Marantz PM 7005, which produces 60 watts and a decent DAC, with USB, optical nd coaxial inputs.

 

He has an Apple TV he can stream via.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply, your thoughts are much appreciated.

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

Thank you all for the references.

 

By chance the NAD d3020 was my original choice for the front end but I thought it would have insufficient power at 30W and discarded it. For some reason NAD products are very well priced in Aus and I can get the d3020 for the equivalent of US$400. Better still its big brother the d7050 (at $900) will be within budget and I think this machine will do nicely with the additional power (50W) as it also has built in Spotify and Airplay so initially they can simply stream from their phones.

 

I had a quick look at Firedog's (and alligatorman) link to the Nuprime IDA-8 and it also looks like an exceptional piece of kit at US$995 and an even more impressive 100W. It also has all the connectivity my nephew will need.

 

Finally the Marantz M CR511 recommended by Wilhelm is not yet available in Aus, but the CR 510 is, so it should be soon. It to looks like it has all the connectivity required, and my only reservation would be whether it has sufficient power to drive the LS50s.

 

If I sourced either of these DAC/AMPS with an Auralic Mini (US$550), and then onto the LS50s (us$1,500), I believe together they would make an incredible system for around US$3K. HiFi may have once been the bastion of snobbery, with the need to pay super high prices to guarantee sound quality, but with the advent of digital audio that is no longer the case.

 

Thinking out loud I will endeavour to convince my nephew to choose this better amplification / DAC combination and to initially stream from his phone and then add a Mac Mini or Auralic Mini later when he can afford to.

 

I do understand that power rating measurements of 50W vs 100W are not necesarily indicative of how well an amp will drive a difficult load so I will endeavour to hear each of these alternatives with the LS50s.

 

Please keep the alternatives coming, I'm finding this a really interesting exercise and hopefully it will help others keep up to date with the quality of amplification and versatility in connectivity that is now available at very reasonable prices.

 

Thanks again - very helpful and much appreciated.

 

All the best,

 

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

If you use a pair of speakers with an AVR (vs 5/7 speakers) you can't redirect the spare power (unless you can bi-amp) however the usual limitation of an AVR (IMO) is its power supply so feeding only 2 channels gives more power to supply the 2 speakers.

 

 

This will work for music, but as far as I know there is now input to the Auralic Mini for external sources (such as everything fed through your TV).

 

Eloise

 

Thanks Eloise,

 

I understand your comment on the powered supplied from the AV. My nephew's focus is on music so I think the integrated amp / DAC combinations above will be more in keeping with that focus.

 

Your right - I can't send a digital signal to the TV from the Auralic Mini (unless it has an optical or coaxial in) and will need to go directly to the AMP/DAC digital input (either USB, optical or coaxial), and therefore a second optical in on the SAMP/DAC could come in handy.

 

I have an Auralic Mini and it has the capability to play music via streaming or a NAS, using either ethernet or wireless, and also has a USB for local files stored on an external hard drive. The Mini has its own internal DAC with RCA out, which you can by pass using its optical, USB or coaxial out puts. Its a very smart and inexpensive little machine. I've listen to it for two weeks now, via its LS Lightning app on my iPhone, and the sound quality is great but the app "looses" the music library now and then, however, that could be the fault of the very basic wifi network that I am currently using.

 

As always thanks for your advice.

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

Thanks all for everyone's thoughts and alternatives.

 

Based on what I've read here most seem to feel he LS50s need a bit more power than the average speaker to shine. It appears that I will need to encourage my nephew to increase his budget for the front end.

 

We need a source that can play local files and also stream so I am considering either a

 

1. Apple TV + pre/dac + power amp combination

 

2. Aural Mini + power amp

 

I recently purchased a 5b year old second hand Parasound Halo A23 power amp (125W) i saw on eBay for only US$200 and wanted to keep it for myself but I think that combine with say a used Benchmark DAC1 or a iFi Micro( alternatively an Auralic Mini) should do the trick.

 

Any other thoughts?

[Ajax]

Wilhelm,The B&W 803 D3s are 90db efficient and 8ohms. An easy speaker to drive. The LS50 is known to be a power hungry speaker. I can promise you that 35wpc is NOT going to drive the speakers to there potential.

 

With all due respect,I also find your opinion on Marantz to be skewed. It seems that you don't make a post without shilling the product. I'm surprised it's allowed on this site.

 

Entity calling itself JW Audio, you're but a shadow of your real self ; your verisimilitudes, shadow's shadow of practicality.

 

You write of what you've not tested, nor studied (see also #112 and #123).

 

And anchoring your latest contempt, disrespecting Chris by feigning surprise—implying his dereliction as site owner and that you-know-better how...

 

Hi Wilhelm,

 

JW Audio's post was not disrespectful to you IMO and did not warrant your response.

 

Before you also get upset with me please understand that I (and many others here at CA) appreciate your enthusiasm for Marantz products. I have listened to them for over 40 years since my older brother bought home a 1066 amp in 1975 and I recently purchased the PM 6005. Marantz make great stuff.

 

Having said that the point of this Forum for me, and most others, is to learn about audio theory and new products as well as enjoy a bit of banter and camaraderie. Your continual promotion of only Marantz products has now come to saturation point and in the vast majority of your 400 posts since going CA you are simply repeating yourself. Also if someone disagrees with you, or asks that you tame your obsession with Marantz, you become hostile and defensive.

 

I would therefore ask that you use this forum to further your own education into what other products are available and to also respect those people who challenge or disagree with your opinions.

 

Please take 24 hours to consider what I have written before responding as I'm simply trying to help you see what others see.

 

All the best,

 

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

Hi All,

 

As a courtesy I thought I would let you know that we finally decided on the Nuprime ida-8, power DAC as recommended by Alligatorman and Firefox.

 

NuPrime Audio - IDA-8

 

It ticked all of our boxes ..... connectivity (USB, optical, coaxial, and bluetooth), simplicity as an integrated unit, ease of use with a decent remote, 100W power, sound quality and price being only $US1K). Unfortunately we have not been able to listen to the combination, however, I have read so many good things about Nuforce on this site (now Nuprime) and their amplification technology so we decided to take a leap of faith. I will let you know how it sounds with the KEFs when it is all set up and they have had some burn in time. This will not be for another couple of months as my nephew's house is still 6 weeks off completion.

 

Thanks to all who took the trouble to give their 2 cents (bobs) worth. Its been a very enlightening journey and I feel confident that this system at about $2,500k plus cables and MAC source will be a contender for the $3,000 system thread.

 

FYI I queried the dealer regarding Apple TV issues that were raised on another thread and he advised that's how he uses the unit himself at home and has had no issues.

 

Fingers crossed and thanks again for everyones help.

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

Thanks for the clarification Eloise.

[Ajax]

With respect to Bill (wgscott) this is the funniest thing I've seen on CA. It made me cry (with laughter)!

[Ajax]

Hi Everyone,

 

Many thanks again to those who contributed their ideas and suggestions.

 

As previously advised we settled on the Nuprime Ida-8 to drive the KEF LS50s. The system is now installed in my nephew's house with the speakers seated on a credenza either side of a LED TV. They are about 7' apart and 7-8' from the listening position.... approximately equilateral triangle.

 

http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers-and-preamps/integrated-amps/ida-8.html

 

Flagship Hi-Fi Speakers - LS50 - Overview - KEF International

 

The speakers and the Nuprime amp both look really "slick" .... very contemporary and minimalistic. The build quality on both the amp and the speakers is exceptional and add to the decor of the house. Very spouse friendly and either a Mac mini or Auralic mini as sources would complement the set up. We purchased the Nuprime in black and the LS50s in gloss black with the gold speaker cones.

 

After some shopping around the total cost of the system was $A3,000, which converts to around $US2,300, If you include a source and cables then total cost would be around the $US3,000 mark. Not a lot of money for this level of build and technology.

 

An Apple TV is connected to the optical input and satellite TV to the coaxial.

 

I have not had the opportunity to conduct serious listening tests (my nephew is still finishing off his house), however, initial impressions using Spotify on a iPhone via the bluetooth connection was very positive. The bluetooth sounds surprisingly good and my concern over the ability of the Nuprime to drive the KEFs, after some comments from contributors to this thread on how inefficient they are, have been alleviated. The listening area is such a small space it can drive them to uncomfortable levels without a hint of distortion. Bass appears to be more than adequate.

 

I will take my laptop over on the weekend and play some hi res 24/96 and 24/192 and ripped CDs using Audirvana as the player via USB into the integrated DAC within the amp and let you know my impressions.

 

Thanks again everyone for your recommendations especially those that bought Nuprime to my attention.

 

All the best,

 

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

Hi Wilhelm,

 

I don't know if you would call what we did "a leap of faith".

 

My nephew and I first heard the LS50s in a audio shop powered by a NAD 50W amp prior to purchase. We were both very taken with the sound. I was actually considering the NAD 7050 due to the excellent connectivity when I think alligatorman & firedog suggested the Ida-8. I did some research and summarised that based on the 50W NAD's performance with the LS50s the 100W Nuprime Ida-8 would have plenty of power.

 

I also summarised that if a mid range NAD amp (don't know what model but it was about $US500), sounded great then based on the rave reviews in the audio press and the complementary comments here at CA about both Nuforce and Nuprime amps, the Ida-8 would certainly be the equal of the NAD, but most likely much better. Also the Ida 8 ticked all our boxes for connectivity and being very compact and user friendly.

 

If it was a risk then IMO a very small and calculated one. I'm heading over to my nephews this afternoon to do some serious listening, and maybe drink a few beers!

 

All the best,

 

 

Ajax

[Ajax]

I merely quoted your exact words. See #55 :

 

Fair enough.

 

Just so there is no confusion my post was not meant to be a criticism of you, the point I was making was that we had already heard the LS50 speakers and that there had been a lot of positive media reviews and CA members' comments about the ida-8 amp. The "leap of faith" was not hearing them hooked up together.

 

Anyway, I had another listen today playing Jack Johnson "In between dreams" (CD quality) and Diana Krall "The girl in the other room" (24/96) and was really impressed with the system's resolution and transparency. The midrange is outstanding with voices sounding very natural and if you closed your eyes you could "picture" the musicians being in the room with you.

 

Unfortunately there were tradesmen still in the house so listening properly was not really possible but overall impression was very good, even though the speakers have only had a few hours burn in. The important thing is my nephew and his partner are very happy.

[Ajax]

Hey Wilhelm,

 

I have endeavoured to tolerate your nonsense in the hope that you would eventually come to see what you currently can't. I originally felt others were being disingenuous towards you and that a lot of your issues were due to your poor english and general lack of knowledge. But it goes deeper than that. You miss the point nearly every time. You don't know what you don't know and you don't know you don't know.

 

Please add me to you ignore list because after 7 years as a member of this site you will be the very first on mine.