AC Filtering, Grounding Boxes, Linear PSU and Balanced Power.

[YashN]

If you are able to hear differences, with and without the filter, are you able to verify that the checksums of both versions, even the upsampled versions , are still the same ? Incidentally, for a couple of years now, my rips have been done with the PC unplugged from the Broadband Modem.

 

I only checked the file sizes (full file sizes) and they are the same, so I expect the checksum to be the same as well.

 

Waiting on my gf's arrival tomorrow to get a second pair of ears (very good ears at that).

 

It's when I pay attention to attack punch (drums & percussions) and the space around the instrument (probably because of room reverb or artificial reverb) that I can hear a difference.

 

I won't tell her what I hear so as to get her pure feedback.

[YashN]

I even turned off the fridge for a while during ripping, but then the thought of spoiled food brought me back...

[YashN]

Some of the Topaz ultra-isolators can be wired as balanced. Stick a GFCI power strip or box as output of that? Those are some well made, low capacitance, transformers. Missing something?

 

Just have their brochure open: these look good. How would you use them?

[YashN]

I was thinking: 2 in series, the first unbalanced (isolator) and the second balanced. ?

 

They look like versatile building blocks.

[YashN]

If the transformer broke down to the frame, or an live AC wire fell off a terminal and ended up on the metal chassis of an amp say are two scenarios where your interconnects are at mains voltage. Since there's no return to earth no fuse or circuit breaker will blow, the shield on the interconnects will be live, not 1/2 but at full mains voltage.

 

Ugh! See why it's always a bad idea to circumvent safety earthing?

 

On the contrary, I find that earthing every component, amps, CD, radio and DACs, the lot benefit from being earthed, since the chance of potential differences due to interconnect shield voltages are very, very low and avoids ground loops from day one.

 

I like that approach too. It may be more work in the common cases, but it is safer and better engineered.

 

I find it irresponsible, perhaps too strong a word, but certainly misguided for Superdad to peel back earth wires and tape them up on equipment that's meant to be earthed. There are ways around ground loops, often difficult to solve sometimes, but bypassing safety systems is not one of them.

 

Yeah, I don't like that way of proceeding either.

[YashN]

As can be seen in the below photo, our JS-2 LPS properly grounds both the chassis and the transformer's ground wire to the earth pin of the IEC connector. The design of the unit and all components within meet or exceed EU, UL, and AU safety standards (though due to excessive costs for certification and bureaucratic BS, and the fact our supplies ship directly to end-users, I am not stickering the units with a CE mark). The build quality and safety of the JS-2 is top tier, so there is no worry--except for those who like to worry.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19619[/ATTACH]

 

Solid piece of John Swenson Engineering indeed. If I could wire up everything with that kind of power and the Regen, I think it would be awesome.

[YashN]

I was thinking: 2 in series, the first unbalanced (isolator) and the second balanced. ?

 

Very interesting, jabbr.

 

I had this at the back of my mind because for the time being, I am mostly experimenting with and designing the AC filter, vibration isolation and damping and power & interconnects:

 

1. Use a couple of similar step-down transformers, wire them secondary to secondary, filter with suitable capacitors in between for an isolation transformer prototype.

 

2. Derive a balanced power transformer from the iso transformer prototype.

 

I think the iso transformer can replace on integrate one filter line in my box, and possibly the balanced power one will come before the whole filter box (i.e. between mains AC and my filter box).

 

How does that sound?

[YashN]

The owner dropped around today and I was going to ask him about how things are wired up internally here since he's an electrician.

 

Didn't manage to get hold of him before he left, so my thoughts of installing dedicated lines are on hold for now. There are some breaker spaces left in the box though.

[YashN]

If you are able to hear differences, with and without the filter, are you able to verify that the checksums of both versions, even the upsampled versions , are still the same ?

 

She's quite tired today from the client trip to and back from Toronto, so we'll see if we can get her to listen and provide feedback until this week-end.

[YashN]

So an isolation transformer with a GFCI on the secondary should be both legal and still maintain decent safety. Now some people say that GFCIs are horrible for sound, but THAT is a different issue.

 

I need to look into that.

[YashN]

I tried off the shelf toroid 1kVA transformers in balanced design. The success was limited, not overwhelming though. The real eye opener is to use either the Equi-tech, (Furman, BPT or the Torus) transformers. The regulation is a lot tighter overall, and this creates a finer reference balanced voltage. The tighter regulation you have, the more noise is cancelled and the backgrounds are nicely quiet.

 

Equi=Tech, Furman, BPT and Torus all have used Plitron transformers in their products. The Equi=Tech Q uses a Plitron LoNo. Torus is actually Plitron itself. I am half way through their webinar.

 

It could be interesting to see what can be sourced from them directly. They're in Toronto.

[YashN]

So an isolation transformer with a GFCI on the secondary should be both legal and still maintain decent safety. Now some people say that GFCIs are horrible for sound, but THAT is a different issue.

 

Found some relevant feedback on GFCI in AC conditioners in a post on htguide.

 

I removed a couple of the "goodies" -- the GFCIs -- and made a new rear panel. I found my system to have greater transparency and better bass definition without the GFCIs in the circuit. Inside the GFCIs, current from the line terminals passes through ordinary, thin PCB traces and two sets of switching contact points per pole on to the load terminals. That's a total of four contact points per 60-volt leg. All of the available GFCI brands have this same basic construction. I tried obtaining alternative earth leakage circuit breakers which are suitable for mounting in the chassis but those were very difficult to get.

[YashN]

Well, there you have it, inadequate size of PCB tracks and contact material is the problem, what a fool Glen B is. YashN, this kind of post serves no purpose other than to show your skills at searching the Internet and increasing your post count.

 

Good luck with Power factor Correction and building it in your AC Filter. See ya later.

 

On the Ignore list you go.

 

I am just gathering info for learning, One and a Half, and obviously, I cannot know what's a good thing and what's not a good thing until I learn from others who have more experience than me or from my own experimentation when I can.

 

I am not sure what got you so worked up. I don't care about my post count: took me years to get to 1,000.

[YashN]

For the record Equi=tech have a number of different suppliers of transformer, so it comes down to the best price/performance/availability ratio, the usual commercial decision. The transformer inside my Equi=tech is not a Plitron.

 

I didn't say Equi=Tech always uses Plitron.

[YashN]

YashN, this kind of post serves no purpose other than to show your skills at searching the Internet and increasing your post count.

 

That's probably one of the weirdest posts I have ever seen, all forums combined, and I have seen some weird things even before the advent of the Web.

 

Hope One and a Half is all right, or rapidly becomes so...

[YashN]

John, could one use the GCFI outlet in parallel with a regular outlet so when the GCFI trips it brings done the second outlet ? This would avoid the noise issue from the GCFI outlet as the equipment could be fed from the second non GCFI outlet.

 

Over at AA, inmate kenster (though some people here and seemingly even on this thread do belong to a real one and hopefully all the trolls or crazies who can't remain in a normal proper discussion rapidly bugger off to whatever rat-hole they dwell in so that we can continue to engage in fruitful exchanges), posted the following:

 

What I found works best with my balanced power conditioners that use a GFCI is to not use that outlet to power anything, just keep it in the daisy chain for protection and insert child safety caps into each outlet port to damp the tongs. Then change out all the other outlets downstream for some high grade outlets such as the Oyaides.

 

Full thread, further down there are some interesting posts on dead-front GFCIs as well as earth leakage circuit breakers from Carlingswitch.

[YashN]

He has likely read some of your posts in other threads.

 

Who knows since he hissy-fitted his way out, it could even be he forgot to take his Lithium (no joke, I have a cousin like that, so I don't take this lightly but the behaviour is similar)?

 

My theory is he likely took it wrong that I told him about which brand of transformer all the companies he mentioned had used in some of their products, namely 'Plitron'. Thus, had he taken the time to research all these products on the internet, he would have known that starting to build a Balanced Power Transformer which passes muster, he could have chosen a Plitron to build upon instead of whatever thing he chose that didn't give him proper results. The common thing among these manufacturers' products is Plitron.

 

Then again, he seems to think that being able to research on the internet is somehow a bad thing (ha!).

 

Now, latching on that poor Glen B (forget about me) is unwarranted but provides 1.5 a little escape route so as not to face his own mistake in not choosing a proper transformer to begin with (would have required effort and research on the internet): I only linked the GFCI post in the context of John Swenson mentioning that some people do not like the sound of these things (as you can see in post 207 above), and Glen does show that he didn't like the sound of it enough to have it removed from his own setup (very beginning of Glen's quoted info in post 207). Maybe I should have made this clearer, but I thought including the last sentence in the Swenson quote would have made this sufficiently clear.

 

Addressing your own comment about 'my posts in other threads', if he or you paid attention, you would have seen that I posted both here (including to lmitche and 1.5) and on one of the Regen threads (to Superdad Alex), that I do not recommend lifting grounds, even though some may find immediate benefits from SQ, as I think the safety implications are too large.

 

What's your priority? Safety or SQ? Even if someone says 'SQ', one can easily see that if safety is compromised, enjoyment of SQ can be reduced greatly, even to 0, either temporarily (in case of equipment malfunction) or permanently (in case of wetware damage).

 

Do we want the latter? No, of course not.

 

Hence, do we want to remove GFCIs just because others report they adversely affect SQ?

 

No, the safety implications warrant further research for sustainable 'SQ' enjoyment to find alternate routes or a proper way of using them.

 

It's a good thing I soldiered on with research about this last night rather than dwelling on troll posts, as AA had some good info I linked to above, with one suggestion totally in line (ah ah ah) with lmitche's suggestion a few posts back, and a couple of alternatives.

 

I am glad I found the info and hopefully that will be useful for others too. Found a lot more information about Balanced Power and Iso transformers last night that will share in due time.

 

Although I do have an interest in these as well, realistically, I cannot envision getting a Plitron or investigating these in the immediate future: limited means for now mean that a more manageable DIY list contains the filter lines experiments, new interconnects, one new AC power cord for the iMac, the vibration isolation/damping experiments.

 

Does this post make sense to you, 4est?

[YashN]

I'm in research mode, too, so by all means, please post any link you feel makes a contribution to this topic.

 

Thanks Mike, will do. There are a lot of good links posted earlier, all along the thread, including from speedskater which make for great reading and research.

 

I'm sure you would join me in eagerly welcoming any constructive criticism of incorrect information we might dig up along the way, from subscribers who are willing to charitably and patiently guide us toward the truth.

 

Absolutely. Most of speedskater's posts with links are good. I am less sure of his focus on low frequency and 'earthing/grounding' as explanations for the Entreq though (it has more to do with high frequencies and EMI/RFI absorption, the signal plane and the signal clean-up for me), and I am less appreciative of his most recent one-paragraph criticism of Core Audio Technologies info (that would apply to anyone), so if and when he has the time to expound, he's most welcome.

 

Anything by John Swenson is gold.

 

Caelin Gabriel is one of the greats in my book, but certainly all these people have interesting things to say (Muncy passed away): Whitlock, Brown, Armstrong, Muncy, Giddings, Ott.

[YashN]

Anything by John Swenson is gold.

 

Caelin Gabriel is one of the greats in my book, but certainly all these people have interesting things to say (Muncy passed away): Whitlock, Brown, Armstrong, Muncy, Giddings, Ott.

 

Add to that, Morrison, whose book on grounding and shielding is highly-regarded as a more intuitive and illustrated text (as opposed to equation-laden and more abstract ones).

 

There is a lot of good info on the internet provided you look for them properly and then verify with others or experiment.

 

For DIY, I usually go to diyaudio, but many of the recent research I did brought me back to audioasylum's tweaks section, and great posts by Jon Risch, Al Sekela and Russ57. unclestu52 is cool too. John S. also has great posts over there.

 

Not many here are comfortable with DIY though.

 

For feedback on the Tripoint and Entreq devices, WBF has a couple of long threads, with great info from these: spiritofmusic (Entreq), audiocrack (Tripoint), LL21 (both), and our very own friend speedskater.

 

For feedback on power conditioners and similar things, I found a lot of feedback on Audioshark.

 

For pushing the boundaries of what is done, the real hi-end or ultra hi-end, I look to our friends over in the far East. What they do make us here look like children believing our 'hi-end' is really 'hi-end'. It's rather mid-fi in comparison but it is still interesting to go to Audio shows to meet up and calibrate hearing with some better gear and installations so that I know how my gear is sounding (my gear is rather modest but I made it sound great, several times above its perceived default level when just plugging things in by default).

 

I still go to the nearby audio shop here and test their stance on DSD: they're clueless about it and very negative. I need to drop by and see if they updated their stance and equipment regarding DSD.

[YashN]

I am sure that they are looking forward to you dropping in to "test their stance". Everyone likes having their stance tested. Do you provide them with your feedback in person or send a written report later?

 

 

I speak to them. They don't get DSD. In this respect, for me, they lag behind my own setup for an audio shop.

 

I don't particularly care if you agree with me about how I think of this audio shop near my place.

[YashN]

No, it does not make sense. It sounds like a person attempting to justify poor behavior that resulted positively for them. There is no such thing IMO.

 

'poor behavior that resulted positively for them'.

 

No idea what you're talking about. Earlier in the thread you were already being pedantic for no good reason.

 

I'll count you among those who need to lie or try and distort the facts for their own agenda.

 

If you don't like the thread or cannot provide any value, you're invited to go elsewhere.

[YashN]

Thanks for this reference. I will add a "good" GFCI device to the circuit shortly and test the resulting SQ.

 

Let me know what results you get, lmitche.

[YashN]

No, it does not make sense. It sounds like a person attempting to justify poor behavior that resulted positively for them. There is no such thing IMO.

 

By the way, it seems your last three posts want to be confrontational and personal, so I am making you join the likes of prot, trithio, johann on the ignore list where you'll be in good company with other trolls.

[YashN]

I am sure that they are looking forward to you dropping in to "test their stance". Everyone likes having their stance tested. Do you provide them with your feedback in person or send a written report later?

 

You earned yourself a place with 4est too.

[YashN]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19657[/ATTACH]

 

 

Hehe