Supreme Sound Audio Opamp upgrade for Soundcard, Motherboard, DAC, Head amps

G'day, This is Alex from Supreme Sound Audio. We are part of Burson Audio. Based in Melbourne, Australia, we have been building discrete type audio opamps for nearly 10 years.

Recently we have introduced the fifth generation of our SS Audio OPA and finally, it is small enough and power supply friendly enough to be used in high end PC audio such as motherboards, sound-cards and externalised USB DACs. : )

Burson Audio – Supreme Sound Opamp V5

How does it work? In any audio amplifier there are opamps. They are as important in audio amplification as lens in a camera. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_amplifier

Pull out the inferior stock opamp and plug in the SS OPA for superior sound.

Please let me know if you want to try this upgrade absolutely free. : ) It is an exclusive offer to CA members only.

To apply please take the following steps:

**Please post an external view of your current gear

**Please post an top down internal photo of your current gear. (see examples above)

**Tell us the stocked Op-amp model in the unit.

Round 1:

We will select a few CA members from the thread to send the free sample. (We will also announce selected participants on this thread)

Once all the participants have posted their impressions and project photos, we will have the next rounds. That means, more people will be able to participate and try the new V5.

Hey Alex,

I'm not putting my hand up for this kind offer. But it's great to see you on here.

I have never rolled an op amp in my life. However, I have enjoyed progressive generations of Burson's discrete op amps in your amps and DACs.

I'm currently enjoying your fourth gen op amps in my Conductor. I am most curious what gen five brings to the table in the Virtuoso Conductors...

No doubt anyone who does roll their op amps will be completely au fait with the quality of your designs.

So hope folks here can take advantage of your kind offer.

Luke in Freo

NB: No affiliation with Alex or Burson - other than being a satisfied customer for many years.

Alex,

Been interested in your discrete opamps for a while. These new version look like they will work in my headphone amp.

As follows:

DIY M3 bridged-balanced configuration

Using 4 opamps (two per board)

Have used OPA627. Plan to try out the AD825.

Currently using AD8610.

Power supply is 24VDC (split on the M3 board).

I should have enough stack-height clearance to add the V5 as replacements. Although it might be a tight fit width and depth wise.

I'm using a Hagerman Bugle phono pre-amp and power supply that I built from kits. I have since swapped out the three original op-amps and replaced them with the LM4562NAs. I think they added a blacker background for the sound. Ever the tinkerer, I wonder what your new SS Audio OPA will do. Sure, I understand I will no longer be able to stack phono pre-amp and power supply as I do now, but part of my longer-term goal is to house each piece in separate boxes.

Hi Alex,

I wonder if I may fall within your offer criteria..?

I have a stripped down win10 pc source, that feeds through a Tag Mclaren pre/dac to my XTA DP428 (a DSP box that I bought as a learning toy / tool). I did not expect the XTA to become a permanent fixture in my two channel set up, but it has, due to its amazing flexibility and its sound quality. The XTA feeds my Rega amps that power my 10 year old Totem Forests (now with crossovers removed).

It put a smile on my face when I first noticed the op amps in the XTA were sat in sockets, they are NE5532's, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts as to what effect your V5's may have on the sound the XTA produces.

Some pictures:

PC source with shielded sata cables and iso feet on the case and hdd's (kept in cupboard under the stairs)

XTA with the lid off, screen showing 'custom assignment' software pc set up transferred to box,

XTA back of the box, working from left to right, 4 inputs then 8 outputs, I use 2 inputs and 4 outputs at the moment,

XTA close up of 2 of the outputs, 1 op amp/output

XTA - Just like a big external 'sound card' don't you think ;-)

Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player

OPA604

Hi Odelay, thank you very much for your kind words of support. : )

Thank you all for submitting your wonderful photos.

To start, we would like Argopo and Deaf Cat to trail our opamps in return for their honest feedback. Bubba Boy Sam, Animaniac and everyone else, we'll be selecting more participants once Argopo and Deaf Cat has provided their feedback. : )

Argopo, we would like to send you 2 pairs (4 units) of our single version SS audio op-amp for your M3.

Deaf Cat, we will be sending you 1 pair of dual SS audio op-amp. Please use this one pair to replace the NE5532s indicated in the below photo.

Please PM me or email us on [email protected] to inform us of your prefer delivery address for these audio op-amps.

Any plans for quad SM opamp replacement? I tried several higher spec and get input versions, ended up staying with MC33179. Thanks!

No quad SM opamps just yet. : )

Thank you Argopo and Deaf Cat for your PMs. Your review units are on their way to you.

To other CA members, please continue to register your interest for the free trail. Once Argopo and Deaf Cat have provide their feedback, we'll select more members to trail our audio op-amps. : ) Head-fi members have discovered many different ways to implement our SSOPA into their projects (here) and we hope that CA members will have as much fun with it soon.

Hi Alex,

Thank you for your kind offer, I am very much looking forward to trying out your V5's in my XTA, I think it will be quite interesting :-)

In simple terms are you able to say what the two op amps do, that you have picked out in the above pic?

And also what the other 4 do, in front of the two you have picked out?

I guess you have picked the first signal point of entry into the XTA?

Cheers

DC

Hi Alex,

 

Thank you for your kind offer, I am very much looking forward to trying out your V5's in my XTA, I think it will be quite interesting :-)

 

In simple terms are you able to say what the two op amps do, that you have picked out in the above pic?

 

And also what the other 4 do, in front of the two you have picked out?

 

I guess you have picked the first signal point of entry into the XTA?

 

Cheers

DC

Thank you for your interest in our SS audio opamps. Those 2 opamps selected could be on the final output stage, whereas the rest could be on the low pass filter stage or the I/V stage with no gain. (I am not 100% certain, as I have never personally worked with this preamp). : )

Alex,

 

Been interested in your discrete opamps for a while. These new version look like they will work in my headphone amp.

 

As follows:

 

DIY M3 bridged-balanced configuration

Using 4 opamps (two per board)

Have used OPA627. Plan to try out the AD825.

Currently using AD8610.

 

Power supply is 24VDC (split on the M3 board).

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22699[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22700[/ATTACH]

 

I should have enough stack-height clearance to add the V5 as replacements. Although it might be a tight fit width and depth wise.

While the Burson V5 looks good, I'd like to point out that the TI LME49710 IC op amp is better much cheaper, and readily and easily available. Also, the LME49710 is a the same size and pin-out of the mini-DIP OPA 627 and is a direct replacement. I replaced all of the 627s in my 10-year old 24/96 Sonic Frontiers DAC2 with LME49710s. The difference in sound quality was amazing. The noise level, especially on headphones was so low that the background was velvet black. The transients were better, bass was tighter, the top-end was noticeably cleaner.

The Burson supply voltage range is +/- 3.5 V - +/-15V while the TI is +/- 2.5V - +/-17v.

Burson doesn't give noise figures, but the TI 2.5nV per root Hertz while the OPA 627 is 4.5nV per root Herz.

The Burson has 98 dB CMRR (Common Mode Rejection Ratio) and the LME49710's CMRR is 120 dB.

The Burson V5 has a Gain-Bandwidth Product of 50 MHz typ, while the TI chip has a Gain-Bandwidth Product of 55 MHz typ.

Now, Burson specs it's Slew-rate at 36 - 49 V/µS and the TI chip is 20 V/µS typically. But, since the TI's GBP is wider, I'd say that they were being very conservative.

The Burson THD+N is rated at 0.03%, while the LME49710 is rated at 0.00003 which is several orders of magnitude better.

But the important thing about the LME49710 is that the slew rate is symmetrical and I don't believe that the Burson V5 is (Burson doesn't say). Asymmetrical slew rate occurs in most op-amps because the "falling" portion of the waveform takes a different path through amplifier circuitry than does the "rising" portion

Slew Symmerty.pdf

Thanks George.

I added a quad set of the LME49710 to an order I am placing with Mouser. Based on your comments and taking a quick look at the datasheet, it should work in my circuit.

Thanks George.

 

I added a quad set of the LME49710 to an order I am placing with Mouser. Based on your comments and taking a quick look at the datasheet, it should work in my circuit.

The LME family are extremely good chips. But are not just plug and play.

With high speed chips the decoupling requirements may be more stringent than the original opamps. Plus loading, impedances, and feedback loops are optimized for the opamps used.

Swapped out some MC33189 with the quad version (LME49740) of this opamp. The results were at best a wash. From the datasheet specs I expected to hear angels singing. The 30 cent MC33189 worked better in circuit. Swapping out quad surface mount opamps is painful for me.

Thanks George.

 

I added a quad set of the LME49710 to an order I am placing with Mouser. Based on your comments and taking a quick look at the datasheet, it should work in my circuit.

You're quite welcome. I think that you'll be pleased with your results.

The LME family are extremely good chips. But are not just plug and play.

With high speed chips the decoupling requirements may be more stringent than the original opamps. Plus loading, impedances, and feedback loops are optimized for the opamps used.

Swapped out some MC33189 with the quad version (LME49740) of this opamp. The results were at best a wash. From the datasheet specs I expected to hear angels singing. The 30 cent MC33189 worked better in circuit. Swapping out quad surface mount opamps is painful for me.

Yes, all that you say can be true, but It looks as if the LME49710 is quite compatible with the OPA627 In terms of CMRR, and decoupling, feedback, loading et al (these OP-Amps are internally compensated).

In the 1970's I had a Crown IC150 preamp. This started life with a pair 8-Pin DIP LM301A op-amps. Over the years that I had the piece, I replaced the OP amps a number of times. The last time it was with a pair of National Semiconductor FET op-amps. Each upgrade resulted in improved sound (well, look where it started. Op-Amps were in their infancy when the IC150 came out, after all) , especially the last one with the FET input. Since all of these OP-Amps were externally compensated, I certainly had to alter the capacitor values several times to maintain stability, but I never had to alter the feedback.

George

Surprisingly, the more expensive metal can versions LME49710HA, and LME49720HA/LM4562HA can sound even better, due to perhaps better thermal management. There was a discussion about this in DIY Audio several years ago involving one of the original design team. The LME49710 and LME49720 are also picky about the amount of capacitance they see directly at their output from cables, and may need a low value series output resistor for stability purposes.

Regards

Alex

George

Surprisingly, the more expensive metal can versions LME49710HA, and LME49720HA/LM4562HA can sound even better, due to perhaps better thermal management. There was a discussion about this in DIY Audio several years ago involving one of the original design team. The LME49710 and LME49720 are also picky about the amount of capacitance they see directly at their output from cables, and may need a low value series output resistor for stability purposes.

 

Regards

Alex

I don't doubt that at all. I have no experience with those particular packages of those parts, but metal cans do have several advantages over epoxy packages (I was a semiconductor packaging (not packing) engineer in a former life). One is, as you say, certainly thermal, and the other is shielding from extraneous noise sources.

Got the SS V5 Opamps over the weekend. Thanks Alex!

Pic: Next to the AD825 opamps on SOIC adaptors.

Pic: Installed in my M3 amplifier.

I had to install the SS V5s on an additional adaptor in order to clear one of the film caps. It was only 1-2mm too big length-wise. A more permanent solution will be to de-solder the film caps and affix them from underneath the circuit board and re-solder from above. Shouldn't be a problem.

Pic: V5s on stacked adaptors

Listened to them for a few hours yesterday. So far, quite pleased with the sound, exhibiting the better qualities of the other opamps I have used (OPA627, AD8610 and AD825). Will do more listening during the week and report back.

One thing to note, I am just shocked that Supreme Sound Audio was able to put a discrete circuit in such a small package. I remember just a few years ago, discrete opamps being a gangly collection of circuit boards with through-hole components which made it difficult to retro-fit in some designs. In my case, just needing to re-affix a couple of film caps is a trivial adjustment.

Hi Argopo, interested to know if you hear any changes over a burn in period...

Hi gmgraves, thank you for your comment and your interest in our discrete op-amp. Would you like to try our opamp, compare it with the LME49710 and share your evaluation with us? If you are interested, please tell us the equipment which you will be using for your evaluation and please post an top down internal photo of your audio equipment.

Argopo, thank you for this update. : ) We look forward to your evaluation soon. : )

Deaf Cat, have you received your trail package?

Not as of yet :-(

Christmas post is sometimes slow.. so am waiting patiently :-)

Hello Alex,

If you are still looking for takers on this offer, I am very interested. Early on I debated on this offer due to the unusual nature of my DAC, and what I assumed would have had more interest than has been displayed. I'd have thought more individuals would be interested, but then many may not be using socketed devices and not willing to rework their DACs. This is what I am using: Signalyst

It essentially is a DSD only DAC using shift registers instead of a D>A chip with opamp I/V and output. I am running it stock using one each per channel of AD844, LME49710 and LME49720. If my budget had allowed it, I may have purchased some of your discrete opamps originally. As you can see, I have plenty of room in my chassis!

Thank you for your consideration, Forrest

Dsc1.pdf

Hi gmgraves, thank you for your comment and your interest in our discrete op-amp. Would you like to try our opamp, compare it with the LME49710 and share your evaluation with us? If you are interested, please tell us the equipment which you will be using for your evaluation and please post an top down internal photo of your audio equipment.

 

Argopo, thank you for this update. : ) We look forward to your evaluation soon. : )

Deaf Cat, have you received your trail package?

Thanks for your generous offer, but no, I think I'll pass.

Good to see some interest being generated in Op Amps. It's an easy, good value and meaningful upgrade.

I have Burson op amps in my EE MiniMax Dac+ and Dexa's in my EE Supreme. I'm amazed more people don't consider this as an upgrade path. I guess they think it is difficult to swap op amps (it's not), or it will invalidate a warranty, etc.