hieukm

1 hour ago, hols said:

                                                My struggle with EtherRegen first 72 hours

Some background on my system. I have been a 'loyal' Uptone supporter all along and I still am. I have in my possession one JS2, two LPS1.2, LPS1.0 and isoRegen and now two ER. Before using the ER in my system I have been using a SOtM switch (highest spec) and fed by Cybershaft OP20 as 10M reference and using Habst cryo'ed silver clock cable. I have been using the SOtM switch between my Doppio server (designed by my buddy) HQplayer embedded and the NAA and connected via USB to Denafrips Terminator. There is no problem with connection all along. We have tried to stack 2 SOtM switches connected by single mode optical and sounded excellent compared with only one. And we have been looking forward to the EtherRegen and see whether it can achieve that kind of improvement.

 

I first used the Uptone SMPS and internal clock to replace my SOtM and I would say there is a very significant drop in wattage of the resulting SQ. There is shrinkage in soundstage, loss of detail and sound is dull. This is not unexpected because this is the first 15 minutes of connection and one cannot make any conclusion from that. I then powered off the ER and connected the 10M clock input pushed the button to external clock and then powered up again. And I immediately encountered stuttering which lasted for 10 minutes without improvement. I have to power off and then power up again and this time after stuttering for a few minutes it runs normally without dropout. The sound improves a lot compared to without 10M clock but to my ears the sound is not on par with the SOtM. My estimate is only about 50% to 70% of that of the SOtM. This is again not unexpected with a not yet boiled gear. I then changed the power supply to LPS1.2 and I would say there is not much of improvement with using the LPS1.2 and there was again some dropouts in the beginning. I then changed to JS2 giving it a 12V power supply. The sound appears a bit more solid but there is a slightly heavy mid range with JS2. That is about 1.5 hours after using the ER. My friend came over to join me at that juncture and I was playing a DGG Fournier & Gulda Beethoven Cello sonata. One thing that caught us both is that the piano comes off with excellent shape as if the Grand piano just stands up and you can hear all the delicate touch by Gulda. But at the same time the cello becomes shrunken. I guess this is due to a more quiet background and better delineation of the highs and SuperHighs  compared with lows that contributes to this spatial delineation of the grand piano. This is a very different presentation compared with SOtM which gives a much richer timbre especially in the range of Cello. We then decided to try to stack the ER behind the SOtM and see whether we can get the best of both worlds(I have studied the manual a few times and know that the B side of the ER should always be closest to the DAC to prevent leakage currents from interfering). 

 

I connected through single mode fibre SFPs and when powered up we face stuttering again and this time it persisted for 10 minutes or so so I have to change it to RJ45 ports with ethernet cable. There is some scattered dropouts and it goes on normally afterwards. As for the sound there is a combination of the 2 characters, the balance between Cello and piano is more natural now. The piano is still excellent but there is a less holographic presentation compared with before. But I would say that the SQ still lacks behind that of 2 stacked SOtM switches. The ER is left powered on till next day

 

When I played music through the next day there is not much of improvement compared with before which is again not unexpected because the boiling process need to continue a bit longer.  But I encountered some stuttering again when I changed to other files. And I found out from this forum that I am not alone and John is trying his best to deal with it. At that time one of my buddies just communicated that he has no problem on the first day but on second day there is stuttering and then cannot even connect. Hope that John can find out solutions to that.

After stabilizing a bit the music seems to be stable and I tried to experiment with my second ER. This time I tried to put it between my Asus 88 router and my Synology NAS using RJ45 ports and ethernet cable. There is stuttering again and this time the stuttering continues. But amidst the dropouts I can hear that there is an improvement in SQ. But I have to give up because after a while there is interrupted connection.

 

Onto the third day today and I've got the biggest surprise which I didn't expect. The system is still on the SOtM +ER stack (without NAS ER)there is some improvement in the sound the orchestra sound more coherent with good layout and yet hearing more details. No stuttering. And I continue to explore by adding a ER between my NAS and router and voila suddenly the orchestra opens up and the widest and deepest soundstage I have ever achieved. And more important is that I can hear the details and ambiance and the air around the instruments are the best ever. The double bass are just rock solid in their place way back in the soundstage and yet giving out a detailed and musical sound echoing the other instruments of the orchestra. The layout is very natural and not the artificial pinpoint focus. One can just feel the rapport  amongst the various instruments of the orchestra. As my friend commented it's like being the conductor of the orchestra. And fortunately there is no more dropouts today. And it seems that adding this second ER gives the best reward and is well worth its price. Now the SQ has surpassed the 2 stacked SOtM switches.  Bravo Alex.

 

So to conclude my first 72 hours impression with ER 

(1) Direct comparison with SOtM the ER may not have advantage and will need further boiling before any definitive conclusion

(2) The sound character of ER is different from SOtM

(3) The stacked SOtM with ER can give additive effect

(4) Second ER between NAS and router can give big boost in SQ

(5) The power supply to the ER needs further testing

 

And in my system using two ER becomes a must.

 

Having said that I am still confused about the cause of the dropouts and I shall raise the questions over in the installation thread.

Thanks again for your great product Alex and John.

 

So @hols you are daisy chain ER and SOTM switch both clocked to Cybershaft OP20 and used between Router to server/render while another ER was in between the Router and NAS??

Can Uptone comment about usage of multiple Etheregen(2x-4x) will improve sound further??

1 hour ago, Evo-No-Revo said:

Something is truly amiss with this story....not saying anyone is lying or anything like that. 

 

I am just saying that the two TLS Reference Ones I have a truly fantastic sounding.  Maybe a little DIY looking.  I know a power supply is a long way from a $9K server.

 

By the looks of the inside of the latest server attempts, it almost seems like he has hired people in China to try to build these servers and his plan is just collapsing around him. 

 

I assume he is in deep financially to all the projects that are on the books and backed up.  I am assuming that Adrian is not going to be able to pull out of this mess.  I don't want to damn a guy or say he is a bad person that is purposefully screwing over people.   I think that damning and speculations to his intents are nothing but gossip and chatter.  Emotions run high in these situations.  Dreams shitted on and such...

 

I wish the community here was strong and evolved enough to support someone that probably had good intentions but shite just got out of control.  I would implore Adrian to come on here and get real with everyone about his situation.  People are very forgiving when honesty becomes your guide.  Or at least get real with the people who you owe a shite ton of money to on an individual basis.  He is probably in more hell than any of you who are out money....ego and the very public slow disintegration of a business.   If the business has to fold, do it with grace and walking upright.
 

I am not making excuses or anything and I would be totally pissed about the situation if it were my money.   I have had similar issues with car projects. 

 

I enjoyed talking to Adrian back when had was working on the software and dreaming of his new server.  The big thread came along and made heroes of a few companies for a moment.  Then the unstoppable progress for SQ pushed the heroes out of the way and the next champions lined up.  I bet lots of companies have changed direction because of the findings in the big thread.  I mean look how many people have cycled through various high end servers and now for half the price have what they consider better with simple NUC implementations.  And the progress continues.  Hard to build a business off the fleeting moments of what others consider the best way to do things...for that moment.  Funny now many are now back around to single box solutions. 

 

But with harsh words and accusations, I don't think he would be anything but beaten up unless he was 100% honest with the forum..  Ho, hum......kinda hurts my gut just reading this saga.  Maybe I am too empathetic and compassionate for the hurt....on both sides of this mess.    I just can't believe Adrian is anything but overwhelm and hurting in this situation....not conniving and malevolent. 

 

Please don't construe anything I said as judgement against people's reactions here.  You have good reason.  It is just a painful thread to have to see on many levels.

 

Good luck to all. 

 

 

You should read some of his excuse in the 1 year wait leading to product delivery. They are: " testing transformer, everything looks good but the clock is not on spec, we currently have snow in Seattle so everyone stopped working, transformers received but testing again, more testing, more delay. "

No honest individual would be able to come up with so much bullshit to delay for a 9k product fully paid from June last year. Stop the empathetic story line. Andrian needs to get his ass kicked out of the community for good. I bet he even changed his name if TLS go under. 

To be honest, i just hope this topic gets sticky in here . We cant let scam artist like this take advantage of community support for small DIY start up. 

8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Agreed. For the record, the gear I've bought (OCXO Switch) or evaluated (OCXO router, DS-1 streamer) from TLS have all worked as specified. Not sure what has caused this troubling shift.

 

 

Referencing him now. @allaboutacoustic

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

It's generally not our role to call our manufacturers on issues like this because we don't have the direct issue. Meaning, we haven't been ripped off and we are only left with the he said / she said business. This is where our forum is invaluable. People can express their opinion freely and let others know what's going on. 

 

 

 

We were not aware of any issues at the time of the review. We do our due diligence because it's bad for business if we don't. If we review stuff and give it a stamp of approval, we have our reputation on the line. That said, situations change with manufacturers. Perhaps this one has gone to the dark side.

 

Has anyone given him a link to this thread? Would be great to get him to comment. 

 

Do you guys honestly think he does not read this?? 

6 minutes ago, Ricones said:

@hieukmWhen was the server delivered?  If it was delivered recently it means the quality of work has gone from bad to worse.   

 

It was delivered a week after your server. 

4 minutes ago, zacster said:

There are 2 types when I see issues like this, not just in audio but everywhere.  There's the guy that thinks he can rake in the money by selling some shoddy product that costs little to make, and then there's the guy that thinks he can turn his hobby into a business but then just can't keep up with even simple demand.  I can build a tube amp or speakers for myself, but when I did that for a friend it turned into an ordeal.  You get a few orders over the internet and you are then a full time slave to the orders.

 

I'm not saying this guy necessarily falls into the second category, but maybe.  And even if he did, you're out the money.

Have a look at the other threads. 

This is the shitty PSU and Server that were delivered to me. The PSU is not working and can see one of the capacitor has been broken out of place. The server using shitty wire and parts for componenst.

Not that i am blaming my own naive on others but I am still amazed that none of the site admin has spoken on these matter. Even well known figure who supposedly did testing for TLS are now silent. It seems all these site want is traffic and monthl y paid fee for selling/buying stuff. 

I received the server with newest build NUC i7. Needless to say it was an shitty products from TLS. Bad build quality. Cheap components. I am seriously pissed to see none of his supporter or even the admin of this site to comment about this.

I would like to warn anyone to stay away from Thelinearsolution or risk losing money. 

I hope this site would ban anything relate to this company and the owner.

I think everybody was right that the China trade war has screw up Andrian import plan. Thats why he is delivering from Canada. Also explains why he has no control over the products. However, this is no excuse for the performance of TLS and quality of the one server ricones has received.

How was the sound by the way, @Ricones??

Andrian is delaying my units again with his unspecified excuse. I am now worried t-after seeing the conditions of your units. 

Regards,

Hi Ricones, 

I am in a similar situation. I am waiting for his delivery supposedly in this week. Will update once i got the tracking.

Regards, 

Hi all,

After the Paul Hynes fiasco, i would not want to trouble you all for another similar thread. But i feel obliged to inform everybody know about another or possible worse case where DIY manufacturer rise from a trustworthy community and become such a shameful act. I have order the Thelinearsolution THEONE server(with upgrade worth 9k) after purchasing TLS Switch and Router. Everything was paid last July and expected delivery in Sep-Oct. I was patiently waiting and eager for product despite little or know update from Andrian(the owner of TLS) while he still popping on other home doing demo of his new products DS-1 streamer and other PSU. The delivery deadline has already passed without any progress from him. I basically have to chase him every week or two to get feed back such as parts delay, waiting for supply on transformer, doing testing, the snow prevent him from working, the OCXO module not working. Last update he gave me was a picture of empty case with 3 power rail. And now he is not even returning my messages. 

I guess it was my bad putting trust in this person and this kind of DIY company. I would like to let everyone know about this and refrain buying from this scam. This company made rises from this kind of forum and it is a shame to see it turns out so ugly. Since i am not residing in US, i will have to contact a lawyer for further action. If anyone with legal profession willing to help would be highly appreciated. 

Regards, 

Should be the different power cable and isolation transformer that make the difference

Love Chord Dac + Blu2 as i have them but Rob Watts say his el cheapo Chinese SMPS is better than all the LPS out there is laughable. 

Anyone receive their TLS server yet?

49 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

Interesting to hear. My 3/4” Spira-Shield Co-Netic annealed MuMetal conduits couldn’t fit over my Harmonic Tech ICs. If I had a chance again I would go for the 1” diameters instead. 
 

I dont think time is going to solve this. It seems to make USB digital sound highly detailed with very tight bass (great on paper) but isn’t organic and for me slightly recessed. Given your experience too, it’s starting to look like a character of MuMetal over signal cables?

 

Its like an over damped sound with a loss of mid range making it recessed. That’s why I’m going to cut the conduits into quarters and experiment again from there. Are your ICs build with MuMetal shield or did you add your own later? Which ICs are these?

 

There’s another concern, that the MuMetal is affecting the signal in the cable too which would be bad. But the positive attributes of what I’ve heard is so good it worth trying to find a solution to this “over dampness” problem. 

I think it does resolve with time. After some burn in then the over dampness seems to improve while other character remain. I am playing continuous music through next 2 weeks to see if it goes away. 

4 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

Same-pler? ?

Hi Flkin,

i also have IC cables with Mumetal shielding and experience the same with yours. The speed and amount pf detials is unbelievable, bass is much tighter. However there is a problem with the treble that makes the sound not organic and digital. Do you think it will go away in time.

Excellent post like always Romaz. It is really interesting when we gets hand on Andrian THEONE server.

11 hours ago, lpost said:

Yes, up to 30dB lower phase noise.  It will be swappable depending on your build.  If you have the OCXO now, the new ones, still OCXO but focused on very low phase distortion, should be able to be swapped in the field but of course confirm with Jord.  

 

They don't have a timeline yet when they'll be available...

Wow -30db phase noise seems impressive. Could you colloborate more on its actualy measurement? -30db phase noise compare to say Mutec Ref10 clock?

I also have just put in my OCXO router from thelinearsolution. The improvement was not subtle. Lower noise floor, Blacker back ground, more transpancy, better separation, instrument just become so much more real. Singer voice become so much mor focused. Harmonic and rthym become continuous as noise were removed from songs.

Everybody that use streaming as main source of listening should give this router a try as it will definately improve your listening experience for the better. :-)

16 minutes ago, Kritpoon said:

 

Rajiv you are missing the magic of the HABST with the broken ground connector! our experiment with @flkin the ground plug makes quite a difference as flkin mentioned earlier. And for me, its the magic that make the HABST sounds so special!

41 minutes ago, flkin said:

Perhaps it’s best to direct your questions to Habst and inform us what they tell you? 

 

This was my earlier findings. The ground plug is not electrically attached to the BNC plug carrying the signal. It seems to be connected to the bulge at the end of the output connector. Some form of ferrite perhaps? 

 

 

I suppose you can experiment with it and let us know if you find the same thing as @Kritpoon and me during our tests. That plugging this grounding cable in makes a difference. 

Thank you guys for your input. I shall proceed to test my Habst cable and give report here. The Habst is meant to connect Chord Dave and Blu 2. I also do have ground box but its connection required spade plug. BNC wont be able to connect. 

9 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

No, the Habst cable has 2 connectors on the input end of the cable - the BNC one carrying the signal and other one, phono/BNC using connector, for ground which connects to a free plug on the Ref10. The output end is a normal single BNC connector.

 

I suppose you can connect the phono plug to a grounding box if you want. During my listening tests, I connected the ground to the Ref10 free socket using the BNC adaptor

 

Thank you for your prompt reply. I still dont get how to connect a BNC/phono to a ground connection. Why wont they use spade or some other plugs.

Connecting the ground plug to a free BNC slot on Ref 10 does not mean it is grounded? 

i have a Habst coming soon so if you dont mind mine questions.

51 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

It's a pity you didn't get to try the grounding plug of the Habst. It made quite a difference when I tried it compared to without the grounding plug.

How do you connect the ground plug? Do you have a ground box?

Why none of this server has OCXO clock on LAN or EMI absorber paper on the case or exotics fuses or expensive RAM with tight timing? Hmm.