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PYP

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  1. Like
    PYP got a reaction from AfterDark. in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    I hesitate to respond since Alex has asked to keep this about the benefits of clocks in general vs. a particular clock, but my own experience is using the JS-2 to power both the eR and a Cybershaft clock.  Sounds very good indeed; therefore, I'm confident that, generically speaking, an excellent external linear power supply will benefit any clock.  
  2. Like
    PYP got a reaction from kyoya78 in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    I hesitate to respond since Alex has asked to keep this about the benefits of clocks in general vs. a particular clock, but my own experience is using the JS-2 to power both the eR and a Cybershaft clock.  Sounds very good indeed; therefore, I'm confident that, generically speaking, an excellent external linear power supply will benefit any clock.  
  3. Like
    PYP got a reaction from MartinT in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    I hesitate to respond since Alex has asked to keep this about the benefits of clocks in general vs. a particular clock, but my own experience is using the JS-2 to power both the eR and a Cybershaft clock.  Sounds very good indeed; therefore, I'm confident that, generically speaking, an excellent external linear power supply will benefit any clock.  
  4. Upvote
    PYP reacted to Superdad in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    @AfterDark. and @R1200CL:
    Please do not turn @MartinT's thread about clocks and the EtherREGEN into a promotion for any one brand of clock or product. Not UpTone, not Cybershaft, not AfterDark, etc.  Okay to discuss products and answer questions.
    This is awkward situation for us. AfterDark is a successful UpTone dealer as you can all see.  But he too must stay close to forum rules and to the etiquette standard I set for UpTone's sponsored area.
    Thank you.
    --Alex C.
     
    P.S. John's paper on clocking (as it relates to square/sine, impedance, phase-noise, etc.) is good. But it needs a little editing--because if I find parts of it confusing then it's not ready for the broader public.  Yet my e-mail tiger and production work has me in a corner for at least the next couple of days, so please be patient about release of what I promise will be a really interesting document sure to spark on-topic discussion in this thread.
  5. Like
    PYP reacted to AfterDark. in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Hi! R1200CL,
     
    We do not plan to measure the phase noise for each power supply. However, we prefers UpTone JS-2 for power supply, especially, they have two outputs, one 12V goes to the clock and one 12V goes to UpTone EtherREGEN. It is best for the both world as well.  UpTone JS-2 is worth so much more than the its price. 
     
    The picture below is the UpTone JS-2 and Cybershaft OP21a special edition for Japan market:

     


     

    The above phase noise graph is powered with UpTone JS-2, the performance is really good. It actually lower the phase noise a bit on 10Hz compared to stock power. So, the clock is deserved to have better power supply. 
  6. Like
    PYP reacted to JohnSwenson in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Hi Martin,
    I talk about most of this in the clock paper, hopefully coming out soon. I'm not going to spend days typing it in here, just wait for the clock paper.
     
    One thing I didn't talk about in the paper is clock "accuracy" and drift. Accuracy is the frequency of the clock as delivered. Drift is how that changes over time. (there is a third which is how the frequency changes with temperature)
     
    All of these are extremely small for OCXOs, measured in parts per billion. No human would ever be able to hear these differences just listening to music.
     
    The only setup where a human could ever hear clock differences is if you have two DACs, with clocks at a very small difference. You had one DAC go to the left speaker and and the other to the right and you played a high frequency sine wave (say 8KHz). Really bad normal crystals might have enough difference to hear a very slow beat frequency.  With either of those DACs by itself you would never notice it. With decent OCXOs the beat frequency in the above test would be over a day long. I don't think anybody could hear THAT.
     
    So with OCXOs forget anything having to do frequency accuracy, long term drift, temperature sensitivity etc. None of these will have anything to do with listening to music.
     
    The experts in ultra precision clocks like to say that ALL clocks are really just thermometers. As a matter of fact the type of crystal frequently used in good OCXOs is one of the best thermometers ever made. It has a mode where the frequency VS temperature graph is a perfectly straight line. But even with that, we don't care, it doesn't matter.
     
    John S.
  7. Upvote
    PYP reacted to AfterDark. in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Since it is a transformer type, it can be distributed with almost no deterioration in clock quality.

    The adaptor was certified with measuring the SWR for each unit and checking the characteristics.
  8. Thanks
    PYP reacted to AfterDark. in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Yes, there is a transformer type 10M distributor adaptor made by Cybershaft. This adaptor can make make 2 outputs of 10M signal. So that you can use them on EtherREGEN and Mutec MC3-USB with the same 10M Clock. 
     

     
     
  9. Thanks
    PYP reacted to JohnSwenson in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Hi guys,
    I just finished writing the first pass of my clock paper and sent it to Alex. He wants to do a little editing before posting it. He is on vacation with his wife right now, it will be sometime next week before he can get it posted.
     
    The information in this paper is very important for choosing clocks, cables etc. I strongly recommend you wait and read this before spending a lot of money buying clocks and cables.
     
    John S.
  10. Upvote
    PYP reacted to Bob Stern in Off Topic | Just for Laughs   
  11. Funny
    PYP reacted to cambridgehank in Off Topic | Just for Laughs   
  12. Like
    PYP reacted to sphinxsix in Off Topic | Just for Laughs   
    Guys in the US, do you really think you can compete with Russians.?
    (especially if their names end with 'in' - think Stalin, Lenin, Rasputin..)
     
     
    For comparison... 
     
     
  13. Upvote
    PYP got a reaction from soares in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    From my own experience, I agree that adding something like the OpticalModule before the eR improves SQ (in my chain:  copper ethernet to OM, then short fiber to eR, copper ethernet from eR to DAC).  Haven't tried all permutations, but can say that a linear power supply for the OM, separate from the one for the eR and clock, sounds very good.  That is my current setup.    
  14. Upvote
    PYP reacted to MartinT in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    For my part, I am hugely indebted to both Alex and John for all the information and encouragement they have given to those of us who have experimented with an external master clock.  I started this thread really to discover whether a ridiculously inexpensive clock sold for radio hams would work for audio applications.  It does, rather well - job done!
     
    I believe quite a few of us have these clocks now and are very happy with them.  Thanks again.
  15. Thanks
    PYP reacted to Superdad in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Hey guys:
    It is all going to be okay (at least in our audio world; hard to say the same about the rest of the world given all the awfulness going on).  
    But I will confess that I cried when I read John's post above. 
    I will explain my reaction and also why I feel responsible.  
     
    I cried because if any of you knew John personally as I do, you would know that he is the sweetest, most kind-hearted human--and one for whom it is nearly impossible to make angry or to get under his skin.  So for him to write what he did, with the tone that he did, is really unusual.  
     
    I interpret it (and mostly correct I am sure) to mean that:
    a) He is feeling rather stressed, be it from how hard he is working on several (still-secret) UpTone products plus a key project for Sonore, and/or from a bit exhaustion (from work, life, and other obligations);
     
    b) By my sending him both the BG7TBL and AfterDark clocks to look at and play with I have put him in an uncomfortable situation (for us both really).  He has dissected and examined the circuits of both units and verbally relayed to me a raft of technical comments, some good and some bad--about their design and construction.
    Yet, for a range of reasons, I have asked that he not publicly discuss his findings about these clocks.  
     
    I feel no obligation to explain my rationale in detail. Yet a couple of obvious reasons are that: 1) These are commercially offered products and it is not appropriate for us to disclose or critique their designs; 2) These are extremely affordable offerings--in a market segment where very high performance is difficult to obtain at low cost. To expect that these are world-beating pieces, rivaling the design prowess of a Mutex REF10 or Cybershaft OP20A would be foolish.  We can all enjoy fast-food sometimes, but do we really want to know all the ingredients or to compare the meal to that from a fine restaurant? 
     
    So I will take the blame for this. I was the one who mentioned the AfterDark clock offerings.  I did so as a gesture since Adrian at AfterDark does a very fine job as a dealer for UpTone in Hong Kong/China. And where else will one find well-performing built external 10MHz clocks--with cool carbon-fiber end panels--in the $300~$900 range?
     
    But let's move on.
    As John mentioned, he has for a while been thinking about the 'paper' he wants to write concerning the many considerations regarding sine wave versus square wave clocks, cabling, impedance matching, and the circuit internals it takes to actually do any of this correctly.  He will get to it at some point, perhaps in the week while waiting for development boards to come back.
     
    Trust me: Based on all of what he has conveyed to me verbally on the topic, much is not what it seems and the correct choices are far from black and white!  If there were we--and others--would have come out and stated the answers long ago. Like probably most of you, when making a product purchase decision, I don't really want to understand all the engineering and considerations. I just want to know enough to make a confident, informed choice.  Yet the truth of what goes on in the realm of reference clocks is filled with mystery. And the manufacturers and marketing writers are of little help!
     
    Okay, back to my endless battle with e-mail. And I think we just sold-out all of February EtherREGEN production! Dang, have not even had a moment to chase down more parts for the next 250 units...
    Cheers,
    --Alex C.
  16. Thanks
    PYP reacted to JohnSwenson in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Please stop asking me to give a detailed breakdown and measurement of a whole bunch of different clocks, it is not going to happen!!!! Do I have to say it again? It is not going to happen. I simply do not have the money to buy a whole bunch of them nor the time to do a full analysis of every clock out there.
     
    I can say the AfterDark boxes do NOT use $20 used OCXOs, they are new modules, but I do not know which ones are used in the different models. That's it for the AfterDark clocks.
     
    I AM working on my detailed paper on differences between sine and square, 50 ohm and 75 own and different types of cables. NO specific models for any of this, this is generic information. You guys asked for it, but believe me it is just going to make things more complicated! This is subject is NOT cut and dried.
     
    I am very busy working on new product designs and doing a whole bunch of clock stuff will delay these by at least year. Not going to happen.
     
    John S.
  17. Like
    PYP got a reaction from PhilSLG in EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread   
    In my system, hifi and physical, adding fiber has been beneficial.  In case you missed it, everything you wanted to know about the eR:  
     
     
  18. Upvote
    PYP reacted to sphinxsix in Off Topic | Just for Laughs   
  19. Funny
    PYP reacted to sphinxsix in Off Topic | Just for Laughs   
    Since the topic has appeared here..
     

     

  20. Thanks
    PYP got a reaction from sot13 in EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread   
    In my system, hifi and physical, adding fiber has been beneficial.  In case you missed it, everything you wanted to know about the eR:  
     
     
  21. Thanks
    PYP got a reaction from Superdad in EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread   
    In my system, hifi and physical, adding fiber has been beneficial.  In case you missed it, everything you wanted to know about the eR:  
     
     
  22. Upvote
    PYP reacted to Superdad in EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread   
    Thanks for the link!
     
    That review appeared in the December 2020 print (and digital subscriber) issue of The Absolute Sound, leading to a Product-of-the-Year award in the January issue (in the category of "Technology Breakthrough.").
    I am very happy to see the review is now available to all online. Now we can link to it on our website... 
  23. Like
    PYP got a reaction from AfterDark. in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Will be interested, as always, in what John says.  I can confirm that the Cybershaft makes a significant improvement to the eR's performance in my system.  Right now, the SQ is very, very good.  Wouldn't want to be without the eR!  Waiting to make the right purchase, as we know, will save you from cycling through gear.  Enjoy the search.  
  24. Like
    PYP got a reaction from Superdad in Master Clock for your EtherREGEN   
    Will be interested, as always, in what John says.  I can confirm that the Cybershaft makes a significant improvement to the eR's performance in my system.  Right now, the SQ is very, very good.  Wouldn't want to be without the eR!  Waiting to make the right purchase, as we know, will save you from cycling through gear.  Enjoy the search.  
  25. Upvote
    PYP reacted to gstew in The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments   
    EtherRegen, the gift that keeps on giving!
     
    I’ve had my EtherRegen’s since some of the first shipments and loved the improvements they wrought. For some of my thoughts, see the first post of this thread.
     
    The magnitude of the improvement from the ERs surprised me as I THOUGHT I had configured my pre-ER network into a good ‘do no harm’ configuration:
     
    ZyXel switch selected for reasonable sonics An optical FMC link just before my endpoint with the better sounding FMC (modified Delock) on the endpoint side in an attempt to lower noise to the endpoint Low-noise music source server  (Zotac PI320-W3) Older WiFi router (D-Link DI-624) configured as an access point for control from a cellphone or computer Shortest possible cables (I know this is not always true, but I start from a perspective of the shortest cable is the best cable… or at least does the least harm!) ALL linear power supplies, no SMPSs NO connection to the wider Internet to limit any possibility of sonic degradation from the associated equipment and connection  
    My post-ER setup was simpler, with just the WiFi endpoint and music source computer connected on the A-side of the ER and a connection to my endpoint on the B-side.
     
    In the year+ the ER’s have been in the wild, I’m reading reports of additional improvements available by adding either selected routers or an FMC link before the ER or even cascading 2 ER’s. While I have 2 ER’s and can try a cascade, IF I liked it too much it’d be another $1,300 to purchase 2 more as I run 2 separate setups. AND I don’t have any of the prized routers, though someday I’ll try what I have around.
     
    BUT I still had my FMC optical Ethernet link HW, the Trendnet -> Delock FMC pair I had used previously. I found the Trendnet was a slight but noticeable upgrade form the TPLink FMCs I first tried as an optical Ethernet link in an attempt to lower noise into my music player endpoint back in 2016. The Delocks were recommended in a post on this forum as a very good sounding FMC. I modified my Delocks with a good low-noise regulator (ADM7151) to provide more flexibility on power supply selection.
     
    With just two connections into my ER’s, the music server and the old WiFi Router, I thought I’d try the FMCs between the WiFi Router and the ER’s. Initially each FMC was powered by a Jameco 5V linear (not SMPS) regulated wall-wart with some Q&D mods (upgraded diodes, caps, transformer ringing snubber, and an AC filter cap). I find this a good, low-cost DIY route to improving on almost AND SMPS for network HW when used within the 1A max of the wall-warts.
     
    I was pretty blown away by the sonic improvements! It was like the focus knob was tuned in better with a greater effect at the frequency extremes… from mid-bass down and upper-mids up. WOAH! Nice. I expected some change, but nothing of this magnitude.
     
    I played around with different power supply options and ended up with adding a 325F Ultracap pair at the output of the 5V supply to the output side FMC  (Delock) and using a 12V Jameco linear regulated wall-wart (modified as above with the output voltage reset to 9V) into a 5V 6||LT3045 board from MPAudio.net on the input side FMC (TrendNet).
     
    Overall changes from adding the optical network link into my control connection, while not as large as the initial addition the ERs, was similar in effect. Backgrounds are blacker and quieter, details are more defined and pop with dynamics, apparent music density and complexity increased, emotiveness is enhanced, and the music becomes an even more compelling listen.
     
    AND that wireless router is ONLY used for control signals and not involved in the connection from the music server. Interesting!
     
    Finally I played with Ethernet cables. I am a heretic on cables from my ERs to my endpoints. When I first installed the ERs, after some experimentation with what I had around and trying some of the trendy low-cost cables, I settled on a Baaske Ethernet filter, the cable that came with it (which has a ferrite core built onto the cable), and a very short 6” patch cable from
     
    Amazon:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OJYZMFG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
    which bettered some other inexpensive yet trendy ones in that length to my ears into the ER. In my setups, to my ears, and with my listening bias, that combo produced the most realistic sound, even though everyone else who mentioned having an Ethernet filter before the ER took theirs out.
     
    I duplicated that combo from the Delock FMC to the ER. Nothing I tried sounded  better and I left it as I started.
     
    I have more power options to try and other configurations, including those mentioned above along with duplicating the FMC string between the Zotac music server and the ER. BUT I am ECSTATIC with what I’ve gotten so far, with no expenditure of $$$, just repurposing some gear I had sitting around.
     
    My moral is… Whatever you have waiting in the wings, give it a try. It may be a wild success!
     
    Greg in Mississippi
     
    P.S. I am not a cable scoffer, I am VERY picky about what cables and wires I use. I know I can buy some fabulous Ethernet cables and I have no quibble with what people report, but just not going to spend $$$ there. Just chosing where to spend my upgrade $$$. 
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