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beerandmusic

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Posts posted by beerandmusic

  1. 17 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Ah yes. 

    But who knows what "jitter" is audible anyway (grin).  I still say for my ears, many times hdmi sounds much better than analog out of many/most universal disc players that i have heard.  They usually sound more dynamic and better bass, but i guess that just means that the dac in the avr (in my case, i use a marantz sr6013 as a preamp) is better than the dac in the universal disc player regardless of hdmi jitter.  I don't argue on these sites much anymore as my hearing has continued to get worse  (smile)....seems like not much i throw at my system makes it sound "next level" in my budget anymore.  I will always try new amps and speakers though (grin)....i just found out nelson reed made a vintage low end speaker with an ATC midrange...that might be interesting.

  2. 5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    If it's the termination that causes jitter than sure it could be an issue, but if it's the protocol, then that's irrelevant because you aren't using HDMI protocol.

    but isnt the hdmi protocol used in the conversion?  How else would the audio signal be translated?

    To be honest, to my ears, I have many times thought that hdmi sounded pretty damn good (at least compared to typical bluray internal dacs).

  3. 15 minutes ago, matthias said:

     

    The interplay between server and DAC and server, endpoint and DAC is very complex. 

    Surely it can not be understood with something like "noise" only.

    Reading the Extreme thread on WBF helped me a lot to gain a better understanding.

     

    Matt

     

    before the dac all that exists is digital music and noise....and the digital music is received perfectly, so nothing left to compensate for besides noise.

  4. 10 hours ago, Summit said:

     

    Can you show me evidence (measurements or listing evaluations) to support that Ethernet Renderer is better than SOTA server like Innuos Zenith se, Innuos Statement or Extreme?

     

    Technical evidence I don’t know, but one principle I consider to be of great importance is that it’s better to attempt to NOT let the noise “come in” than to clean it up later down streams.

    I asked Barrows the same question comparing to the Teac Nt503 about 4 years ago and he couldn't answer and the teac was only about $1k if i remember.   I am not convinced it would sound any better than just streaming to a marantz nd8006....put your money in speakers.

  5. On 6/21/2020 at 6:49 AM, OldBigEars said:

    Just to conclude my DAC experimentation process.....

     

    how did the qutest compare with your hegel dac?

    I thought about trying "chord magic" after Davide talks up his mojo so much, but then ran into someone else that had the mojo and said it sounds the same as any other dac he has owned, and has had pretty much same experience as me, hoping for an appreciable upgrade from a dac and never getting one.  Qutetst was going to be my last hope...curious if i will hear any real appreciable difference.

  6. 7 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

    I must add that Apos Audio have been very classy about returning the D90 - no issues whatsoever. Highly recommended if you want to give this DAC a try.

    i got the gustard a18 from them (Apos audio).  I am surprised they let you return it after 4 weeks?  I understand the gustard a18 is heavier and feels more solid than the d90. 

  7. 9 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

    Just sent my D90 back.  Fantastic measurements, DSD 256 and all..

    I just wasn't loving with my music any more.

    YMMV - let us know how it goes.

     

    i would think so, comparing $700 topping d90 dac to your $2500 dac...that hegel looks nice...

     

    i don't think my $500 gustard a18 dac will compare much to your $2500 dac either....but there is always the other side of the fence that believes all dacs that measure well will sound the same....who knows...

     

  8. I just bought the gustard a18

     

    It's the lowest price DAC that supports DSD with an LPS that measures "well".

    Sports the new ak4499 chips

     

    In all likelihood, i won't hear an appreciable difference, and will prefer streaming via my marantz (yawn)....but i need a new toy.

     

    AND IT'S ON SALE !!  I love sales.  $505 

     

    (bought at apos.audio and had them match shenzenaudio https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/gustard-dac-a18-ak4499-balanced-dac-lme49860-6-decoder-with-remote-control )

  9. 2 hours ago, mocenigo said:

     

    I can perhaps provide an example (not exactly "cheap" of course)

     

    The Soekris DAC1541 User Manual states "The dac1541 R-2R DAC circuit is fully isolated from the noisy computer USB interface and the SPDIF inputs are also all transformer isolated" (the also implying that the isolation of the USB init is also via transformer) and in fact on the board there are three little SMD PCB DA101MC transformers.

     

    I think any new dac i buy will specifically market galvanic isolation, and if that isn't really necessary, then the topping d90 is looking better all the time...but i still don't think it will sound any better than just streaming with my marantz, as that has been my experience after trying about 15 different dacs.

  10. 4 hours ago, Superdad said:

     

    Anyway, i liked your first response better, that i believe, if i understand correctly, is that all dacs "regenerate" (term used loosely) to indicate it goes through some processor, and no dac literally isolates the usb 5v reference....so we are back at square one...do dacs compensate for usb noise sufficiently or not....one side will say they do and that usb noise cannot make a difference and they will all sound the same, and the other side will say you have to spend a lot of money and they still will not compensate enough.......which is why i would like a dac that does isolate as best as possible since it is "debatable" that audio engineers cannot agree on.

     

    That said, i guess, I can simplify my desires in my next usb dac to just be galvanically isolated that measures well and I can skip the part about having it's own 5v reference voltage or one that reclocks....not sure there would be anything else to look for in making a decision.

  11. 3 hours ago, Superdad said:

    Understanding this stuff is hard enough for those non-engineers (like myself) who are steeped in it (I consider myself lucky to be very "engineer-adjacent" via my close relation with John Swenson). I think it is going to be difficult for you to choose based on informal discussion of many technical factors. 9_9

     

    That may be true, but how is it possible for anyone to make a decision then on which ones to try?

    They can't base it solely on measurements, and they can't base it on debatable technologies.

    THat is the problem with the hobby.  Sure you can say base it on your own hearing...I have already tried that as well trying a multitude of them.  No one can seem to offer "logical" reasoning for the layman.  By definition of function of the dac, all dacs should sound exactly the same, and I have yet to find one usb dac that sounds as good as other interfaces.  I am very close to giving up on the endeavor again to find a usb dac that sounds any better than playing from a smart phone or streaming through a cheap avr...  Even the objectivists on the "other site" suggest that all dacs with good measurements will sound the same...so that I guess is where this will end...i guess I just had higher hopes.  I know davide256 suggest the mojo is the answer, where one person over there (that is presumably well respected there), has the mojo and suggests it sounds exactly the same as any other dac that isn't "trash".  Then when you question people (whether they believe all dacs sound the same or you have to have the best pc, the best power supply, the best isolation, and even then it won't be good enough), they belittle you and just say "just believe us", even though they are on totally different belief systems.    One side suggests spend whatever you want they will all sound the same, and the other side suggests you have to spend a fortune, and there are so many improvements....I personally believe that it has to be somewhere in between the two extremes, so I have to use something to guide me....sure i can just buy another 15 dacs and resell them again, and let my own ears decide....and i will probably still be of the same mindset after all that effort, that all these improvements haven't really amounted to anything and that streaming DSD through my marantz still sounds better....and that's not necessarily a bad thing...it actually sounds pretty damn good....i just would prefer to have it sound this good through usb....yawn.

  12. 1 hour ago, Superdad said:

    You also mention wanting a DAC that "provides its own 5V reference." I am sure you mean one that does not rely on USB 5VBUS power for its input stage. But unless a DAC designer goes to the trouble and expense of building in an entirely separate power supply just for the USB>I2S input board (and I mean if not a separate power transformer, at least a dedicated transformer secondary, separate set of AC>DC rectifying diodes, and voltage regulators--all to keep a separate 0-volt/-VE "ground" reference), your requirement will be at odds with having digital isolator chips on the I2S lines after said USB input stage.

     

    Regarding 5v reference, i probably misunderstood schiits marketing:::

    Self-power by the DAC for the critical low-noise re-clocking and latching sections.

     

    I thought that meant that they are providing their own voltage (assuming some type of regulators), to do the reclocking so they didn't need to rely on the 5v from the usb in case it had problems.  I guess i just have a wild imagination (grin)...again, thinking the purpose is to isolate the usb noise.

     

  13. 1 hour ago, Superdad said:

     

    Wurth Ethernet transformer module and a standard digital isolator on the I2S lines.

     

    In your quote above, did you mean the gen5 already had Wurth Ethernet transformer module and a standard digital isolator on the I2S lines, or that is a new feature of the unison?

     

    Not that it matters, because i don't want to fork out for a yggi, and miska suggests the bifrost sampling rate is not high enough, so I am not going to look at schiits anymore...at least not any of their current offerings.

  14. oh and regard to reclocking, i just noticed that schiit used that term, and I thought it had to do with "regenerating" the perfect bits, thinking that it may be necessary for timing purposes. (in my mind i just picture the bits coming into a circuit and then the dac uses it's own clock to pass the bits on to its circuitry at a control point that it is managing).... I don't really understand why reclocking may or may not be necessary.  I believe your device "regenerates" the signal because it is trying to compensate for usb noise that may affect the digital music?...and my thinking IF it is necessary, then that should be a function of the dac...and when I saw that schiit advertising re-clocking, that i thought it was doing something similar to your solution.

     

    Nothing personal, I really don't want to buy gadgets between the pc and the dac, I am willing to wait patiently for a dac that won't need such technology...as you know i have already waited over 5 years (smile).

  15. THanks for sharing...it will take awhile for me do digest even a fraction of this.

     

    I guess where I am "trying to go", is that I am stuck...

     

    I want usb for functionality purposes, but I always "think" that any solution other than usb (enet,toslink,thumbdrive, even hdmi) sound better.  Objectivists are trying to convince me that usb noise is not a problem and that all competent dacs will pretty much sound the same, and that my thinking is likely just a problem with "level-matching". 

     

    Leaving that aside for a moment, i know that the only inputs to a dac are the digital music, the 5v reference voltage, and noise.

     

    Some engineers will suggest the digital music always arrives at the dac perfectly or maybe lose 1 bit every so many hours, and that even if you lose a bit, it will be a dropout or glitch, something easily recognizable, not like something just "sounds better".

     

    Anyway, that makes me conclude that "noise" on the usb is the problem with why other methods sound better.

    That leads me to think that I want something that isolates this "noise".

     

    I don't really care how the dac isolates the noise, i just want a solution that markets that it isolates the noise.  When I saw that schiit now markets that they reclock and isolate, I don't recall seeing that in their marketing before, and i have had a gen5 usb before, so perhaps i just overlooked that marketing...anyway, so i guess what you are saying here is that they haven't done anything new since gen5 regarding usb isolation.

     

    hmmmm....where am I going with this.

     

    I guess I just want usb to sound as good as toslink, but i want usb for DSD.

     

    Maybe it is just as the other site suggests that it is just a matter of properly "level-matching" and that it is just in my head or bias....but it seems so much obviously better.....just frustrating when everyone thinks you are crazy...maybe i am crazy (grin).

     

  16. 2 hours ago, barrows said:

    The current version of the Holo Audio Spring I guess counts as a relatively inexpensive DAC, with a good, isolated, USB interface.

     

    Thanks for sharing..this is the type of information i am looking for.

     

    In your statement:: Such isolation requires that the DAC re-clock the I2S lines before conversion, hopefully via a masterclock and flip flop located very close to the final conversion stage.  Of course an isolated USB receiver needs a dedicated power supply, this can be provided very well by the USB 5 VDC supply, if one is sure their USB source has a clean/low impedance 5 VDC supply, and that the USB cable keeps this supply clean/low impedance.  

    -----------------------------------

    Can you clarify. 

    1.  Does the Holo re-clock in the manner which you suggest above?

    2. Does the holo provide it's own 5v or does it use the usb 5v? 

     

  17. 1 hour ago, OAudio said:

     

     This has meant a lot of work in the audio server to ensure good USB timing and power (clocks and PSUs are to my own designs). The work has helped promote a well timed USB stream and good USB SI from the server.

     

    I don't know if I understood another person correctly or not, but I thought I understood them to say that almost all DACs use their own clock in modern day dacs, so why would the pc source clocks matter regarding timing?

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