Computer Based Music Server vs Digital Player

[Paul R]

I think that your requirements might be a little incompatible with a Squeezebox. I was startled when I read you have your NAS sleep.

 

The servers here never sleep, and the network doesn't either. I can run three Touch devices simultaneously (with redbook material) and don't have any issues at all, though I have never tried it with hi-res material.

 

I would suspect that your issues were caused, at least in part, by your NAS configuration, but no matter. As long as you like what you have working, it's all good.

 

-Paul

 

 

[Mark Powell]

I had endless problems with music files on my NAS (a Seagate GoFlex Home with also an attached USB drive for a back up) until I looked at the guide and found out that by default it slept after ten minutes. Fine since I set it to not sleep at all.

 

[mwheelerk]

So reading through the thread again several questions come to mind plus some 'selected' limited options in digital players for me.

 

Issues or questions for me include the need of digital players for network connections. If I understand correctly this is mostly required for set up and system maintenance but not actually required for the primary function of music playback.

 

File support would be a key for me. My library is primarily Apple Lossless and a growing number of AIFF. I have been considering converting all my files to AIFF.

 

The ability to playback high resolution files is paramount.

 

Several have mentioned user interfaces. This is something I do like about iTunes. I appreciate the ability to create playlist and also the use of shuffle mode. Though music playback is the primary concern I also enjoy gathering and displaying the album artwork but of course this would introduce video into the mix either via HDMI to a HDTV, via a display screen on the digital player or transmitted to an iPad.

 

And speaking of iPad the need for a remote control (and this would or might also encompass the user interface) is important.

 

What about back up? If the device had an internal HDD for file storage and retrieval or if using external HDD how is this backed up? Right now with the Mac Mini I set a calendar reminder to due a weekly back up to another HDD connected to the Mac Mini and a second monthly back up to a portable HDD I keep in storage.

 

And finally the limited, by choice if possible, selection of options. I have a local dealer I much prefer to work with and his current offerings are digital players by Bryston, PS Audio and Cambridge Audio (and Sonos but I think that is a different animal).

 

[realhifi]

1) Depends on if you want an all inclusive music player or one that simply plays files from other computer on a network.

 

2) The ones I am thinking about play pretty much anything. Unlike some "religions" for one OS over another the ones I am thinking about are agnostic.

 

3) Play iTunes if you like or play using a UPnP server or simply use AirPlay or a varient to play whatever else you happen to stream through your computer.

 

4) Yep. Uses an idevice for control (on the network of course).

 

5) Lot's of ways to back up a music collection if it is on a computer. NAS, USB drive, Time Machine, etc.

 

6) Of those three I believe that the PS Audio is the most flexible but don't overlook solutions from Naim, Linn, Squeezebox, Marantz, Denon, Etc. All have the ability to play at least 24/96 (the Linn up to 24/192) over a network.

 

[crisnee]

Paul, I actually did get it to sleep (and waken when called upon) eventually, fairly consistently. The reason I wanted it to sleep; I used it only occasionally, a couple times a week or so and I didn't use the NAS with anything else. It wasn't my main music system; I used it mostly for background music and streaming European internet stations.

 

At the time I was using it (a few years ago), lots of people were having similar problems. Everything would be fine for a couple of weeks and then it would drop connections and...blah blah.

 

-Chris

 

[vrln]

It´s common to see arguments against PC´s as sources due to noise/RF and so on, but the latest HiFi World magazine did some measurements on the new Mini and well, it seems the new one at least has no issues.

 

The jitter levels are also very low with the built-in coaxial output:

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/internet-audio/373-mac-mini-2011.html

 

To sum things up:

 

"There are now no serious issues from computer problems people fear: noise and jitter and clock rate conversion."

 

Maybe something has changed with the new unibody Mini? Some people have reported on various forums that the new Mini sounds better than the 2010 version. Who knows...

 

[Paul R]

I think I remember that... at least I remember thinking that something had to be wrong with the hardware. It turned out it was supposed to operate that way, I think...

 

In any case... did I mention how well a cheap Linux server works?

 

-Paul

 

[crisnee]

As long as you like what you have working, it's all good.

 

Just to clarify, I do like what I have working, but only because it surprised me on the up side. I got the device as an experiment because it was so inexpensive. It does have several shortcomings that matter quite a bit to me. Doesn't read flac tags, no gapless playback, interface software is lacking, doesn't decode to memory and playback from there and has a cheap wall wart. It's well built from on the outside (cast aluminum I think) but probably not as well on the inside, but here I'm just speculating. However considering this device is aimed at the do-it-all market, and produced by a small Chinese company, it sounds suprisingly good, very good really.

 

I brought up this topic in this thread, because I'm surprised no-one has built a similar but high quality all audio unit, and I personally want someone to. It would be my dream frontend. I'm just hoping a manufacturer or a friend of a manufacturer will see this and be inspired to....

 

Paul and others, pardon me for the following, I just don't know any other way to... , I'll just relist what its requirements should be according to Chris, (not THE Chris, but Crisnee Chris) in hopes....

 

LOVELY LITTLE DIGITAL FILE PLAYER/INTERFACE DEVICE By (fill in your name here)

 

Various digital outputs,

Usb/esata inputs for hdds and the like,

Video out, defeatable, to port the interface display to a monitor,

A remote with telephone like keypad for searches,

Quality power supply,

os/memory/audio engine/interface software combo.

Decode files (flac etc.) to memory, play from memory

 

An option should exist that allows one to shut off all unnecessary functions and hardware (like the HDD) during playback.

Optional wired/wireless access--defeatable,

No dac, it'll be more versatile/less expensive without one.

 

And yes I do remember somebody mentioning something about a lovely linux server.

 

-Chris

 

[marcoc1712]

I Know this is a very old Thread, but I think is still interesting, at least to me.

 

I'm a little confused by terminology used, it seems to me we call different aimed thinks with the same name, just to be clear I'll use the UPNP/DLNA 'naming skema' with a simplified views:

 

a) The renderer(s) is the module who receive signal (stream) from the server via the network and 'play' it, just to keep it simple, let's say to the dac.

 

b) The server is the module that 'feed' renderers, usually reading the files somewhere (internal disk, USB or NAS) and sending it (streaming) via the network.

 

c) The controller(s) provvide the UI to manage/display the server and renders activities.

 

d) Other than this, you have ripping, tagging, downloading and quite a lot of 'off line' (in respect of listening to music) library management, normaly perceived as 'server' activities, but not realy mandatory in this way, as far as You could rip, download and tag on other systems and move files to the server.

 

A grey zone is where transcoding happen, in UPNP/DNLA could by both at server or renderer side.

 

"All in one" Music server is just running all components in the same machine.

 

Some systems like the 'original' Logitech Squeezebox ecosystems (not really UPNP/DNLA) are close to this model, other (like Apple or real UPNP/DLNA systems) could mix thinks, so your phone could be the controller, but even the server (streaming songs stored on it) and renderer, playing music from a remote server.

 

A particular case is, from my point of view, MPD, where the server is actualy the device attached to the dac, but even if no one is really availlable today, the NAA looks to me as 'the perfect renderer' with no ability other than play music, means the transcoding take part only on the server side.

 

From my point of wiev NAA/renderer with no transcoding is the minimal required 'real' device running a piece of software to be attached to a dac and looks to me is the piece where any effort in optimisation promise more returns in SQ, sure everything matter, so the server software and hardware, the network hardware and event the NAS could -. maybe - affect SQ, but I'm quite sure Ripple and noise from PSU, EMI, RF, vibrations,... has major effects where the asyncronous signal converts to SPDIF and some meters of CAT6 and a wall cable could well isolate...

 

This is my personal tough, but as I understand, general audiophile feeling is not that way, and quite a lot of people state "Streamer (renderer I assume) are for casual listening, computer (all in one, I suppose) for music".

 

Is that just becouse we have some poor streamer around (but we have also poor computers...) or there is some limit in the streaming technology i'm not aware? Dont think is becouse TCP/UPD do not grant every packet is delivered (...), since is quite the same theoretical trouble you could have using NAS and in practice is just a matter of buffer dimension.

 

Other way to pose the same question is: the same PC reading a file from a NAS vs. playing the same file (using the same software player, i.e. foobar) via a stream received from a server will/could produce a less SQ? If so, why?

 

p.s.

 

I've noticied myself that some ethernet controller could cause very audible noise, but first is not a 'general' issue, then you just need it if you want use NAS for storage, so I'll prefere to keep this apart at the moment, assuming you could affectively point and solve this.

 

Please forgive my terrible english and thanks.

 

Marco