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Yes Fragile on HD Ttracks


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These are simply part of the WBG releases (downloads and SACD re-release). The sales figures of any of these hirez downloads is rounding error, I'm sorry to say.

 

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According to the tags the 24Bit is Rhino (i.e. Warner, I know). Would it be reasonable to conclude that this is a 24Bit rendition of the (very good) Rhino remaster? If so this is an excellent result. But MF got there (or thereabouts) first. And what do MF do in 16Bit that takes 24 elsewhere? Different source files perhaps? It's very easy to get very confused very quickly when I start thinking about it.

 

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does their own remastering. Generally from the original master tapes. They master to their own tastes, using their own specialized gear. Then their process cuts out about half of the steps (generations) to get the new master file from their mastering suite to the final CD or SACD. Finally, they produce a limited number if discs from a stamper, this final step insures that each disc released has well defined pits-which will not make a difference for computer ripping, but will result in less jitter when played back from a conventional transport.

My experience is that MoFi does a better remastering job, generally, than most other folks, and they charge a premium for it. So, take a MoFi version of Fragile, or The Yes Album, and when compared to, say, the Rhino remasters, the MoFi is better. MoFi guys also respect original dynamic range in most cases, and do not succumb to the temptations of loudness.

My other understanding is that all MoFi's current remastering for digital is done to DSD first (even for Gold CD releases), this means they have DSD master files which they keep, and could license for future release, hmm...

 

As for the DVD-A (which is almost certainly the source file for the HDtracks download) I do not know the details of the this release, maybe Ted does? In any case, I think that the DVD-A preceded the Rhino remaster project. Hopefully the DVD-A mastering was done from the original master tapes...

 

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Orange Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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Folks:

I downloaded the most recent version of PM (1.82v) a few days ago. Last night, I downloaded Yes' Fragile, I dropped the files into the PM Flac window to process and started playing. I noticed that the song Roundabout stops playing at about 6 minutes into the song and then PM plays the next track. The next track also stops early.

 

By contrast, the songs play completely with no issues when I drop the Flac files directly into Audirvana and play the album via Audirvana

 

I am wondering if the newer version of PM has an issue.

 

Has anyone experience this problem?

Thanks

tom

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have just compared HDTracks v. DVD-A rip in my system.

HDtracks version sounds wayyyyyy better (to my ears in my system)

 

 

Digital Sources: Linn Klimax DS and Audio Note CDT3 + Audio Note DAC 4.1x balanced.[br] Analog Source: Clearaudio Innovation + SME V tonearm + Benz Micro LP S cartridge.[br]Plinius Tautoro Preamp. - Plinius SA Reference Amp.[br]Dynaudio Sapphire Speakers + Velodyne Ultra Subwoofer.[br]Powercords: Elrod Statement Gold.[br]Interconnects and Speaker cables: Kubala-Sosna Elation.[br]Dedicated Power lines for HiFi Stuff.

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I'm going to sleep now (Europe), tomorrow I will compare to the Analogue Productions Vinyl (The best of the best so far)

 

Digital Sources: Linn Klimax DS and Audio Note CDT3 + Audio Note DAC 4.1x balanced.[br] Analog Source: Clearaudio Innovation + SME V tonearm + Benz Micro LP S cartridge.[br]Plinius Tautoro Preamp. - Plinius SA Reference Amp.[br]Dynaudio Sapphire Speakers + Velodyne Ultra Subwoofer.[br]Powercords: Elrod Statement Gold.[br]Interconnects and Speaker cables: Kubala-Sosna Elation.[br]Dedicated Power lines for HiFi Stuff.

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Sure it's probably the same Master, and spectrogram confirms similitudes, but sound is very different.

DVD-A rip sounds "harsh" in comparison.

Download is more natural sounding, more comfortable to listen, yet detail is fully preserved. Download and Analogue Productions Vinyl play in the same league, DVD-A rip is 2 steps behind.

 

I noticed the same phenomenon in Diana Krall recordings. Download and SACD (PS3 ISO -> Saracon -> PCM) sound better than DVD-A rip. Same differences described above.

 

 

Digital Sources: Linn Klimax DS and Audio Note CDT3 + Audio Note DAC 4.1x balanced.[br] Analog Source: Clearaudio Innovation + SME V tonearm + Benz Micro LP S cartridge.[br]Plinius Tautoro Preamp. - Plinius SA Reference Amp.[br]Dynaudio Sapphire Speakers + Velodyne Ultra Subwoofer.[br]Powercords: Elrod Statement Gold.[br]Interconnects and Speaker cables: Kubala-Sosna Elation.[br]Dedicated Power lines for HiFi Stuff.

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  • 6 months later...

I just heard both here and HDTracks is better. First of all is a little louder (HDTracks is DR10 as opposed to MoFi DR11), but the roundness of the additional resolution is also very noticeable. In complex passages full of voices and instruments of Roundabout you can also feel the soundstage wider and more textures.

I just wished the HDTracks had the extra dynamic range, but still I prefer it to MoFi's version.

 

Also I don't understand why Mofi doesn't sell their catalog as high rez downloads, what a waste of potential...

 

HDTracks

foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2012-04-01 11:36:22

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Yes / Fragile (HDTracks)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR8 -0.03 dB -10.80 dB 8:35 01-Roundabout

DR10 -0.04 dB -12.82 dB 1:43 02-Cans And Brahms (Extracts From Brahms' 4th Symphony In E Minor, Third Movement)

DR9 -0.03 dB -10.14 dB 1:30 03-We Have Heaven

DR9 -0.03 dB -11.67 dB 8:09 04-South Side Of The Sky

DR11 -0.04 dB -12.67 dB 0:38 05-Five Per Cent For Nothing

DR10 -0.03 dB -11.96 dB 3:31 06-Long Distance Runaround

DR10 -0.03 dB -11.70 dB 2:42 07-The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus)

DR12 -0.88 dB -16.88 dB 3:03 08-Mood For A Day

DR9 -0.03 dB -11.96 dB 11:26 09-Heart Of The Sunrise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of tracks: 9

Official DR value: DR10

 

Samplerate: 96000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 2890 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

 

 

 

MoFi

 

foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2012-04-01 11:37:17

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Yes / Fragile (MoFi)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR10 -0.17 dB -13.37 dB 8:37 01-Roundabout

DR11 -0.88 dB -15.07 dB 1:42 02-Cans and Brahms [Extracts from Brahms' 4th Symphony in E Minor Third Movement]

DR9 -1.00 dB -11.75 dB 1:40 03-We Have Heaven

DR10 -0.05 dB -12.36 dB 8:00 04-South Side of the Sky

DR12 -0.15 dB -14.11 dB 0:38 05-Five per Cent for Nothing

DR11 -0.28 dB -13.57 dB 3:31 06-Long Distance Runaround

DR11 -0.08 dB -13.50 dB 2:42 07-The Fish (Shindleria Praematurus)

DR12 0.00 dB -15.66 dB 3:01 08-Mood for a Day

DR10 -0.15 dB -14.15 dB 11:29 09-Heart of the Sunrise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of tracks: 9

Official DR value: DR11

 

Samplerate: 44100 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 16

Bitrate: 848 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

 

1. Sonore ultraRendu - UpTone ISO Regen - Mola Mola Makua - Apollon NC800 SL PRO - Thiel CS3.7
2. LG 65UM7470PSA - Marantz SR7005 - Apollon NCore MP mch - Monitor Audio Platinum PL100+PLC150
3. RME ADI-2 DAC FS - Neumann KH 80 DSP
4. Hidizs S8 - Audeze LCDi3
5. Meizu HiFi DAC - Moondrop Aria

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"Also I don't understand why Mofi doesn't sell their catalog as high rez downloads, what a waste of potential..."

 

I have heard rumours that this is under consideration, but remember, MoFi does not own any copyrights for what they release, so for them to re-release a title as a download, they will have to get a new, and specific license for that purpose from the copyright owner. I am sure that securing such a license is going to be difficult for them.

 

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Orange Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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Yes, sure it needs to be relicensed or something, but still worth doing. HDTracks is a success story, MoFi could be too. Even if they do not reach agreements with all rights owners, at least part of it could be done. Or at least give a PR statement that they are working on it or something.

Well whatever... enough off-topic. :)

 

1. Sonore ultraRendu - UpTone ISO Regen - Mola Mola Makua - Apollon NC800 SL PRO - Thiel CS3.7
2. LG 65UM7470PSA - Marantz SR7005 - Apollon NCore MP mch - Monitor Audio Platinum PL100+PLC150
3. RME ADI-2 DAC FS - Neumann KH 80 DSP
4. Hidizs S8 - Audeze LCDi3
5. Meizu HiFi DAC - Moondrop Aria

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My understanding is that they are interested in doing this, but that the licensing is the major stumbling block. Additionally, my understanding is that MoFi has their own masters as DSD. So if they could get licensing for download release, they could release titles as native DSD...

But, consider, the way they release their phsyical discs is with a license for a limited run only-this protects the copyright owners, who can still release the same titles at a later date when the MoFi version is no longer available-achieving a "sense of security" for the copyright holders with a high res download release will be/is a lot more difficult.

 

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Orange Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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