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Mac-based Music Server - Is this system as good as I can get?


hdomke

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for my dedicated audio room, i just purchased a monarchy DIP device for the jitter coming out of the airport express unit. i also just purchased a new manley DAC. i use an adcom gda-700 dac in my den setup and the manley dac is superior to the adcom. should be at 3 times the cost. after everything burns in for a while, i will be comparing the music server setup to my classe cdp-10 player which is a very good player.

 

if you are looking for an improvement in sound from a digital source (cd, music server, xm, etc..) look into jitter devices. they make a big difference to the quality of the music, they clean up the jitter before feeding an external dac.

 

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Rick, Chris;

 

Yea I have done this also sticking a WD My Book Pro on my Extreme. Another thought would be a Time Capsule which is basically the same thing in one box.

 

Ripping does slow down about 20% over direct connect. Since most lossless stuff is streaming over WIFI at less than 2Mbps it really doesn't effect the sound.

 

The only reason I don't do this on the main system is control. I like to be able to manage the files and back them up directly and stuff. When it's remote and you backup it takes forever. That's because everything is going to and from the computer instead to say a drive connected to the USB chain on the Extreme.

 

Also it does not really allow other users to ripe into a central library as the it does not inform the other computers of new selections. You can Add to Library and stuff but that get's old after a while.

 

It's easier to share from iTunes itself by the sharing options inside of it.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

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All very solid information Gordon, thanks for sharing.

 

With your comment about the sharing options within iTunes I got to thinking about running a Mini based system with directly connected hard drives and placing this system somewhere outside the listening area. Then using another Mac connected to a USB DAC and using the Mini's shared library to play music. Kind of a round about & expensive way to do this, but surely another option.

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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I thought Henry had imagined the perfect system for me, with my music drive attached to an airport extreme, an Airport Express behind the system in my den, and Toslink directly from the Express into that digital amp I was talking about the other day. This solution was going to free my mac laptop up to move to the couch or the kitchen (where I could run iTunes in one window and food network in the other!), and not cost me more because what I was going to spend on the M-Audio device to convert USB to Toslink, I coud now spend on the Airport Express, freeing my iBook from wires! Perfect.

 

Then you brought up this Toslink/jitter issue. Party poopers. So what is needed to convert the Toslink out of the Express to coax again? And will that solve the jitter problem? And is the jitter Toslink is going to cause enough of a problem to be heard through good, but not high-end equipment?

 

Tim

 

I confess. I\'m an audiophool.

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Converting back to coax will not help because the "damage" has already been done. I think dealing with jitter largely depend on the quality of the DAC receiver. For example Wolfson claims that their spdif receiver can deal with the incoming jitter better than other designs. However, if one must use the AE (which I do to get bit perfect output from Windows XP/iTunes) then the better solution is to hack the AE and tap into the USB signal, since the PCM2706 is taking that USB signal and outputting spdif/toslink. In fact, most USB dacs will use one of the PCM27xx variants to take USB and either do the DA conversion or pass the data in I2S format to another DAC. Right now I'm happy with the toslink into a wolfson-based DAC. Might try disassembling (destroying) an AE and see if I can tap the USB signal. Right now you can buy a refurb from Apple for $69

 

www.hifiduino.wordpress.com

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Ah yes, JITTER!

 

I am far from an expert on this one, but I'll give you my opinion. I don't think converting the TOSlink to coax will reduce the jitter introduced by the AE/TOSlink combo. You need something like the Pacecar from Empirical Audio for a situation like this. However, for $99 you can certainly try the TOSlink straight out of the AE and if the sound is good enough for you then you are all set!

 

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This is probably of little interest to anyone but I discovered the importance of jitter a number of years ago. I had a Mark Levinson 31.5 digital transport and and the 30.6 DAC. There was a buffer in one of the pieces (I think the DAC) so there was supposedly something built in to help with timing errors. I inserted a Meridian 518 between the two pieces. John Atkinson in Stereophile once referred to the 518 as the Swiss army knife of the digital world. The 518 could do noise shaping, jitter reduction, and could reclock the 16 bit output of the transport to 24 bit. It could also act as a digital volume control, which is definitely not recommended in 16 bit mode and worked OK but didn't sound as good as a good preamp.

 

Long story short, the first thing I tried was the jitter reduction. I don't know how it worked and have to assume that there were still jitter issues between the output of the device, AES/EBU, and the DAC but it definitely improved the sound. I was experimenting with a variety of digital cables, from a hundred bucks to a thousand, and found that using jitter reduction made the cable from the transport to the 518 much less significant while the one from the 518 to the DAC wasn't affected by the use of the 518. The unit could also be used in the A/D process and Atkinson used it that way on some of the Stereophile recordings he produced.

 

I know we talk about jitter a lot but this was interesting for me because I actually got to play around with some of the variables and experience them for myself, even though I couldn't begin to explain the why's of it.

 

Audio Research DAC8, Mac mini w/8g ram, SSD, Amarra full version, Audio Research REF 5SE Preamp, Sutherland Phd, Ayre V-5, Vandersteen 5A\'s, Audioquest Wild and Redwood cabling, VPI Classic 3 w/Dynavector XX2MkII

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  • 3 weeks later...

What I want to do may be very similar to what other folks have discussed but I need clarification. Here is what I want to do: 1) use a MacBook to run iTunes wirelessly, 2) play my music on my stereo/home theater, 3) store all my music (standard CDs) on an external hard drive(s) not connected to the MacBook.

 

FYI, I have an Outlaw 990 with a USB input and pretty good internal upsampling DAC. I have connected a MacBook directly to the 990 and found AIFF lossless to be identical (to my ears) as my OPPO 980H's digital output to the 990. If I understand correctly, the following equipment should allow me to meet my goal.

 

- Use an Airport Extreme with external hard drive(s) attached and locate the iTunes library on those drives.

- Put an Airport Express near my Outlaw 990 and connect the two via USB.

- Use iTunes on the MacBook to get the music off the hard drives attached to the Airport Extreme and send it to the Airport Express for playback via USB on my Outlaw 990.

 

First, will this work? Second, is jitter a significant issue with this setup since the Airport Express is connected to my 990 via USB?

 

 

AvFan

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This is probably of little interest to anyone but we had the pleasure of providing Henry with the rest of his system yesterday. It included B&W 800D's, Classe 400W monoblocks and a Benchmark non-USB DAC for his processor and preamp functions. I have to say that my guy who was in charge of the installation, a hardcore enthusiast, was pleasantly surprised at the outcome of the system. We did talk Henry into using decent cables and I still believe that he could raise the system to another level with a great preamp, but the Benchmark and server based source acquitted itself very well. This was our first serious installation for a customer and I have to say we are pleased and I think Henry agrees.

 

Thanks again, Henry for the business, the open mind, and helping us to open ours.

 

Rick

 

Audio Research DAC8, Mac mini w/8g ram, SSD, Amarra full version, Audio Research REF 5SE Preamp, Sutherland Phd, Ayre V-5, Vandersteen 5A\'s, Audioquest Wild and Redwood cabling, VPI Classic 3 w/Dynavector XX2MkII

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Hi AVFan -You have one minor problem with your proposed configuration. The Airport Express will not output an audio signal via USB. You'll have to use TOSlink. I would try it out and if you think you need to bring it up a notch consider either removing the Express or using a product like the Pace Car from Empirical Audio. The Pace Car really helps with the jitter from the Express.

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Chris,

 

I did this a long time ago... but basically what I did to get USB audio out of the Airport Express was to hack a USB cable off one end and expose the wires.

 

The DAC board on the original AE used the PCM2705 I think. This is a USB part so I lifted the DAC board off and powered up the device and found the +5 for VBUS, GND and D+, D-. I then soldered the cable to the header and brought it out.

 

To tell you the truth this worked but it was not nearly as good as going off a MAC.

 

If you want a wireless connection I suggest getting a mac mini off ebay and using it as a headless server.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

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Last week I got the stereo system described above; it is finally real.

After listening to it I can say: it is amazing. And profoundly moving.

It works.

How cool, to have a high-end stereo with no CD play and no Turntable. Just my laptop running iTunes.

I'm not sure how to post pictures of it on this forum.

Can anyone advise me?

 

Here is the gear in the system:

2 B&W 800D Speakers

Benchmark DAC1 DA converter

Audioquest King Cobra Balanced Interconnects

Audioquest Everest Speaker cables

Apple 17-inch MacBook Pro CD Player

2 Classé CA-M40 Amplifiers

Apple XServe RAID 5.6 TB storage for Apple Lossless files

 

Thanks,

Henry

 

 

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WOW!

 

I am very jealous Henry. The speakers, the amps, the cables, and perhaps the most unexpected component the XServe RAID, all make me very envious. I've used a few different XServes before and they are really nice. Your system must sound spectacular!

 

I can help you post the photos. I am working on some better functionality with photos, but I don't like what is available just yet. Send me an email with either links or the photos and I'll get them up right away.

 

Again, WOW!

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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HD - what a great system - can't wait to see the snaps. I like the way you call it a CD player. The Revolution is upon us!

 

Chris - Is that Flickr Pro for 25 bucks a year or so decent for rented space to link to for photos? I'm curious about a solution too for here and another marina thing that has no file sharing space. I thought that place might be a simple non-ad solution.

 

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Flickr is a good option in my opinion. Tons of other apps and sites work very well with Flikr services.

 

I don't mind hosting the photos for this site, but allowing people to post them easily is a little difficult with the current system.

 

Here is the code for anyone looking to post a photo that is hosted somewhere else.

 

 

 

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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In the PS Audio newsletter using the Apple TV as the server it is suggested to "share" your ITunes files from your primary computer via

wi-fi. Can this be done if the Mac Mini is the server?

Also, if you have the ITunes files both on the Mini server and your primary computer, do you really need a backup hard drive?

barrydmd

 

 

 

 

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Hey barrydmd - You can share your library from any computer running iTunes. So, yes the Mini can do this. Even a PC can do this.

 

If you have a redundant copy of your music, same tunes on both computers, I think you should be fine without another backup method. You can always take backing up to the extreme, but keeping it simple is a good thing in my mind. Copies on two computers is good for me.

 

Is this the information you were seeking?

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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There is a different between sharing and synch'ing. You can share any library to Apple TV and it will behave like Airport Express. If you want to move the files to Apple TV (the way the PS newsletter was describing it) you need to synch with the Apple TV. Only one library can synch with any one Apple TV, if you synch with another library, the Apple TV will first delete the previous library...

 

www.hifiduino.wordpress.com

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  • 3 weeks later...

I use a MacMini with a 500GB external HDD - a near silent combo, connected through Toslink to my Altmann DAC. It looks like a joke, but this combo sounds nearly as good as my $6000 YBA CD player. It connects via a HDMI input to my Sony Bravia LCD TV and I use it to play movies and also watch TV (with an Elgato EyeTV stick). I've got rid of my dedicated PVR now. Any music that is not on the MacMini is streamed from one of my other Macs. I can control the MacMini either directly with the wireless keyboard and mouse (using the TV screen) or using OSX 10.5's screen sharing from one of my other Macs. I encode in AIFF, Apple Lossless or WAV, or if it has to be mp3 I use Lame VBR encoding rather than the iTunes encoder.

 

You really should look at the Altmann, it isn't cheap but it's a great product.

 

regards[br]Michael[br]Mac mini & Amarra 3 | Weiss Minerva | CEC TL-51x | Octave HP500se | ADAM Tensor Delta active speakers. [br]MacBook Pro | V-DAC | Yamamoto HA-02 | ATH-W1000[br]AppleTV | DACMagic2 | Sugden A25 | ADAM HM2

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it's an Iomega MiniMax 500GB external drive. The same form factor as the MacMini and sits neatly underneath it. The MacMini sits on 4 Herbie's BabyBooties for vibration control ( http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/footers.htm ) and this in itself makes a difference.

 

you can read about the Altmann at http://www.altmann.haan.de/

and 2 reviews that is consistent with my experience at :

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/outside2/outside.html

and also http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0506/zero_oversampling_dac.htm

 

The Altmann is so good that it is almost as good as my turntable:-)

 

regards[br]Michael[br]Mac mini & Amarra 3 | Weiss Minerva | CEC TL-51x | Octave HP500se | ADAM Tensor Delta active speakers. [br]MacBook Pro | V-DAC | Yamamoto HA-02 | ATH-W1000[br]AppleTV | DACMagic2 | Sugden A25 | ADAM HM2

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