What speaker wire do you use? (Survey)

[jfkbike]

So I am a faithful MIT user. Top of their line stuff. Stupid expensive I know but it works for me.....

 

[bernardl]

2 x 2.5m of Chord Co. Epic twin.

 

Holy Crap.

 

They were the best cables I've ever heard. Absolutely no doubt. They bought a balance and realism to my system that I haven't heard since and don't expect to again until I can afford to drop $4k on some bits of bloody wire and that's the problem. They cost more than any other component in my system. Something can be exceptionally good value but still be too expensive.

 

Funny coincidence. I used to use those very cables in my system and was very happy about them.

 

That is until I replaced them by the pair of Viard HD20.

 

Honnestly, I wasn't really a believe in the impact of speaker cables until I heard those.

 

They are simply in a different category in terms of clarify and dynamic... and hadly cost more than the Chord.

 

Cheers,

Bernard

 

 

[kana813]

I'm using shotgun runs of this:

 

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablspkr&1314681047

 

Also like the Decware ZEN STYX.

 

 

[RankStranger]

Thanks, but they don't seem to have an Australian distributor.

 

I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm unhappy with the Epics. We have all auditioned and fallen in love with a component we can't afford, my audition just happened to last three months!

 

And I happened to REALLY not be able to afford them. I knew it would end in tears but it was worth it. The Freys are at the top of my list when I win the lotto.

 

In the meantime my system sounds great as it is.

 

RS

 

[esldude]

Talking cables Barry, not room response. The Tact is made to deal with room issues. It also allows fine control over basic frequency response. Fixing room response isn't the only thing it can be used to accomplish.

 

So other than frequency response, exactly what is it that differs in these various speaker cables? What is your opinion as to what causes cables to sound different?

 

Also the Tact does more than just simple EQ. It does address time delays as well.

 

[esldude]

Exactly how do you think resolution is lost in cables? How much resolution is being lost? We talking something that happens at 16 bits, or 24 bits or what? If one wanted to do so, one could artificially reduce resolution of music files and see where cables no longer matter.

 

I agree lost resolution cannot be recovered. I just don't think cables are losing that resolution between speaker and amp. I think at most minor response irregularities are being heard with nothing more mysterious, or esoteric. If you study a bit of psychoacoustics, you will find it well proven that response irregularities have masking effects. They mask other sounds at lower levels and frequencies. Subjectively you will hear reduced resolution elsewhere from frequencies being bumped up. Certain frequencies may sound more resolved from response dips uncovering things that are masked in flat playback.

 

As for termination and contact resistances, well any well connected cable will have those very far down in level so it is no concern in terms of resolution loss at audio frequencies.

 

[mfaoro]

Transparent Premium Super. Haven't heard anything better for the price.

 

[bdiament]

Hi esldude,

 

Doesn't matter if it is room response or cables: to see these only in terms of frequency response is to look at only a single element of many.

 

What other than frequency response? What else can you describe about an audio signal?

Speed (temporal response including phase response), graininess, dynamic response (both macro and micro and bandwidth of same - some cables or other components are more dynamic in some parts of the range than others), soundstaging, imaging, etc.

 

I know of no way to alter any of these with an equalizer and no way to make one cable sound like another.

 

As to what causes the differences, I can only guess: materials, geometry, speed of propagation, dielectric, etc.

 

Also, I am aware of the Tact and similar devices. The time delays these address have to do with attack time. I have not found one yet that can bend the laws of physics and shorted decay time, which is the issue in rooms. So far in my experience, only mechanical devices can do this.

Certainly "room correction" devices change the sound, sometimes quite radically. My personal view (and it is only that) is that I've not yet encountered one where I deem said change to be an improvement. On the other hand, (for my ears) properly treating acoustics mechanically always does the job. (I realize this is not an option for everyone.)

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[mallenbiker]

Synergistic research reference XL on my two channel tube/horn system. huge difference in noise floor and resolution compared to my 10 yr old Transparent reference cable at the time. Definately a believer in active shielding.

 

Cardas bi wire in my HT main speakers (older Def Tech 2000s ) and Transparent Reference for center channel ( Def Tech CLR2000 ).

 

[REShaman]

As mallenbiker exclaims re speaker cables (mine are Acoustic Reference 6ft with BFA connections, so too Synergistic Research's XLR ICs (Acoustic and Precision and their USB Tricon) have made a huge difference (his words and mine) in noise floor and resolution compared to AudioQuest CV8 (DBS48), Columbia ICs. HUGE!

 

2 JL Audio 112s with Synergistic Research Subwoofer 2 cables on the way. Each cable has an active shielding connection which are connected to a QLS 9 power strip connected by a T2 active shielded power cord into Teslaplex receptacles which are fed by 20amp dedicated power lines. The results are outstanding. Not saying this is the only fabricateur or other cables can not achieve the delivery of SQ, I am merely relating what my experience is. And Jim Smith (Getting Better Sound) good counsel that no matter how good the equipment, the room characteristics "controls" the results is in my experience the absolute truth (which changes all the time as I discover ways of making my room work). Much work in that area to be accomplished.

Best,

Richard

 

[ted_b]

I also use and have used his XLR and RCA interconnects in certain spots (source to pre).

 

[Priaptor]

However, I am dying to try the TunnelBridge interconnect system from LessLoss.

 

 

 

[esldude]

Well, you don't know of a way to shorten decay time, but think about what is involved. You might not reduce decay as done for measurement. But if your speakers have some large response hump, and you EQ out that hump, then the level of energy put into the room is reduced. The time until signals in that range will decay below audibility is shortened. All without altering physics or doing more than simple EQ. The ill effects of decay time on sound reproduction has been reduced usefully.

 

My point in any case as regards speaker cables was that I think what is mostly happening is minor response anomalies mainly at frequency extremes. That minor EQ can give very similar results. If that is true then such EQ to suit one's system and taste is a much better deal than buying various expensive cables. Cables at audio frequencies between the amp and speaker aren't doing any serious delay or phase change to the signals. The retort seems to be what I say isn't true, but we don't know what is true. Not very convincing to me.

 

[joelha]

Someone I trust suggested that welding cable (believe it or not) makes excellent speaker wire.

 

Has anyone ever heard of or even tried this before?

 

If so, what were the results?

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

 

[bixby]

Lots of nice cables mentioned here. Like 57Gold I am using copper foils that were custom made. Really open and clean.

 

Good to see lots of Nordost and Kimber users.

 

My old retired cables which I still like are Synchestra Signatures from Luminous Audio. Much better for me than Acoustic Zen and Harmonic Tech, Analysis plus and the like at a very fair price.

 

[ronfint]

Excellent cables.

 

Ron

 

[Fleecyears]

I use the PSC Audio's Custom speaker cables which are made of pure annealed silver

 

http://www.pscaudio.com

 

They also make an excellent RCA interconnect which you might be interested in. Check out the following review.

 

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/psc/1.html

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[bdiament]

Hi esldude,

 

"...Well, you don't know of a way to shorten decay time, but think about what is involved. You might not reduce decay as done for measurement. But if your speakers have some large response hump, and you EQ out that hump, then the level of energy put into the room is reduced. The time until signals in that range will decay below audibility is shortened. All without altering physics or doing more than simple EQ. The ill effects of decay time on sound reproduction has been reduced usefully...."

 

It isn't the speakers I'm talking about, it is the room. (If the speakers have "some large response hump", my suggestion would be to replace the speakers.) If the room has a resonance at xHz, you can dip the speaker's response with EQ and yes, this will excite the room less. And you've introduced an error in the speaker's direct response. Now, in my view, there are two problems instead of one.

 

I see such "remedies" as the equivalent of trying to fix a broken arm by wearing a different hat. I guess it works for some folks but it doesn't work for me. But hey, we're all different.

 

To be clear, if you like what the Tact does for your system, I'd be the last person to take that away. It is after all your system and you are the one it must please.

 

"My point in any case as regards speaker cables was that I think what is mostly happening is minor response anomalies mainly at frequency extremes. That minor EQ can give very similar results. If that is true then such EQ to suit one's system and taste is a much better deal than buying various expensive cables. Cables at audio frequencies between the amp and speaker aren't doing any serious delay or phase change to the signals. The retort seems to be what I say isn't true, but we don't know what is true. Not very convincing to me...."

 

I can fully understand that if all you see as possible departures from perfection in speaker cables occurring in the amplitude domain, someone hearing other characteristics in cables would be "not very convincing".

 

I hope we can agree to disagree then.

 

Best regards and happy listening,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

[esldude]

Well, having measured quite a few speakers, most have some sizable response irregularities below 200 hz. On the other hand almost any modern speaker even some fairly affordable models are pretty good from 500 hz and up out of the range where the room is effecting things the most.

 

EQ doesn't fix it all at the grossest level. But it seems to make some of the biggest differences. Whether it is direct sound or room resonance, what gets to your ear still has masking effects that are substantial. Flattening out the lower couple hundred hertz while not a total fix usually results in improved sound that almost everyone hearing it agrees upon.

 

We will have to disagree which is fine. Now room resonances don't take all that long to start, and people's ears don't parse out individual cycles of sounds. So often your hearing cannot separate direct and total room result at your ears anyway. It combines it all over some period of time.

 

Seems scrambling around with cables on a unknown problem isn't the best when there are real response problems yet to be dealt with. Especially when it is possible to deal with them. But hey that is just me.

 

[bdiament]

Hi elsdude,

 

"...Well, having measured quite a few speakers, most have some sizable response irregularities below 200 hz...."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't those speakers in rooms at the time they were measured? It would seem your measurements then, were of the speaker in the room (unless you used some sort of windowing to emulate an anechoic measurement). I submit the irregularities below 200 Hz were not just from the speakers. Perhaps not even primarily from the speakers.

 

I agree that dealing with the problems is a good idea. I just take a different tack, addressing room problems at the room rather than at the speakers (which as I've said, I believe only creates a second problem rather than solving the first). In my fully treated room, from the listening position, the system measures +/- 1.5 dB all the way down to 20 Hz, with no EQ. This is the speakers and a pair of subs, properly placed in a properly treated room. Under these conditions, the many characteristics of different cables (or any other change) are quite apparent.

 

Works for me. If your system works for you, I'd say we're both lucky.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

 

 

[REShaman]

Barry,

Your good counsel is spot on. According to Jim Smith (Getting Better Sound) and Barry Ober of Soundoctor.com, what you describe is a highly useful perspective that is bettered by implementing. The follow-through as you describe reaps the rewards. I am awaiting the delivery of 2 F112s and a Marchand active crossover to raise the delivery of music from my system and expect to reap the rewards of having, IMO, great speaker cables and ICs and USB from Synergistic Research. It's refreshing to read your take on the difference that makes the difference. Bravo. (I am also a customer, but that has nothing to do with anything except having the music to deliver the music).

Best,

Richard

 

[cinematic]

After a lot of testing and comparing different cables, I settled for Nordost Flatline Mk2 cables, simply because they sounded best (=most neutral) in my setup. I was actually surprised how big the differences between the cables were, not subtle at all! My cables are rather long (5m) and the impedance of my electrostatic speakers can get pretty low at certain frequencies, which is probably why speaker cables have such a big impact in my set.

 

My advice: go see your local dealers, get a couple of cables to review and try them all side by side, in your own set.

 

[4est]

Cinematic raises a good point in that ESLs have the opposite impedance curve as other speakers. An electrostat is essentially a capacitor where the Z goes down as the Fr goes up. What works for them may not sound the best on other types of speakers that tend to have a lower impedance in the bass.

 

[Richard Dale]

I think the issue of electrostatic speakers being sensitive to cables is compounded if you are driving them with a valve amplifier.

 

I have a pair of Audiostatic DCI electrostatic speakers, and I initially used them with the cable recommended by the dealer who sold them to me. I was driving them with a pair of Radford MA50 valve amplifiers. Basically the system didn't really work with that combination. I could listen to most tracks, but on a few tracks a bass resonance got excited. After a while, I got fed up with only being able to listen to what music actually worked with the speakers.

 

Firstly, I needed to put the speakers on Mana speaker plinths and position them very carefully in the room, and that got some way to solving the resonance problem. Then I substituted a pair of 5m Nordost Red Dawns for the more standard cables that I was using, and it pretty much fixed the bass resonance issue. The Audiostatics still weren't that good for reggae, but the could do rock stuff like Jesus and the Mary Chain or tracks with acoustic Jazz bass pretty much perfectly.

 

To me this is clearly to do with physics, and it isn't to do with me imagining the Nordost cables were improving things because of 'placebo effects, lack of DBX testing, yadda, yadda..' as some people who don't think cables make any difference would have you believe. I certainly wasn't imagining bass resonance problems with the older cable, and when the resonances were greatly reduced it was a very real and obvious effect. On top of the objective bass resonance elimination, subjectively the Nordosts greatly improved the resolution of the system.

 

[One and a half]

it's too heavy and would put a strain on connectors.

 

I have used for many years industrial silver coated copper cable coated with Teflon in a braid, its 12 gauge wire. AFAIK it's used for aviation purposes.