SACD ripping using your PS3 (part 2)

[ted_b]

to do a great job. I personally use it's "normalize whole album" function to safely and accurately find the peaks so as to get the best s/n without clipping, then use soft filter and Aqua dithering. But I also agree that pure DSD is the way to go.

 

Joel, if you are reading this, yes I've moved on to using normalize rather than using sox (seems to do same result without the added hassle of an extra conversion test) and decided to use Aqua dither.

 

[elcorso]

Ted, I would not be scare about clipping on PCM, but yes on DSD.

 

When you convert PCM to DSD, Audiogate doesn't allow almost nothing over -6db, and this is the correct way, since clipping on DSD is worst than on PCM. This was a Cookie Marenco recommendation, and I agree with her.

 

On the contrary, removing peaks on PCM you lost dynamic contrast in music.

 

When I convert DSD to PCM I only use (now) Korg Aqua Dithering, I don't use anymore any of the other filters, not only because my system don't achieve ultra high frequency, but (I think) I lost something in the time domain.

 

HDtracks history about they have to use brickwall filters to avoid ultra high frequency on DSD to PCM transfers is unbelievable, or a big mistake, since they destroy harmonics on the music also. The only final benefit (to them) is the files will be smaller, then faster to DL.

 

When you get your Mytek DAC and play native DSD you will discover a whole new music world.

 

Roch

 

[joelha]

Thanks Ted.

 

I've been using Audiogate to normalize as well.

 

But I thought you weren't using any dithering.

 

Did I remember incorrectly?

 

If not, what changed your mind?

 

Joel

 

[Miska]

2. Quality of software: Does it make a difference if I am using free software Audiogate or expensive software like Saracon? In other words is the conversion from DSD to PCM a straight forward process? Or is there a degree of artistic license applied?

 

It does make a (huge) difference, there are many ways to do the conversion and all will have their own sonic properties. Similar as PCM sample rate conversion, but much more emphasized.

 

It's not very straightforward process in a way that there's no single "right" or "wrong" way of doing it. Just different ways.

 

And the conversion has two aspects, one is how the conversion itself is done and second is how the ultrasonic noise is treated.

 

 

[agentsmith]

I think I touched on a subject that divides opinions amongst those in the know.

 

I think I will try different options to see what suits me and my system. And I cannot hear any differences, then I would not bother.

 

In any case, this conversion thing is hopefully a stop gap, until dCS comes up with an DSD update. I could only hope this does not become vapor ware.

 

Since i heard that many (most?) SACD are sourced from PCM edits, i guess the results of tweaking these parameters would be hit or miss...?

 

Any way I am starting to not make any sense....

 

[pepar]

I am reading that most people are converting the DSD to PCM and I am wondering if that is only because they are not able to play DSD ISO's?

 

If one has a setup that can play DSD ISO's, then isn't that the best way?

 

Unrelated following question ... where is the best place for me to buy the proper PS3?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[ted_b]

but I've already heard it. Rob (PM) had it playing nicely on his Debussy at RMAF. And Michal uses it for his Mytek DAC. It's real!!

 

[ted_b]

and he has some significant experience with it.

 

Roch, thanks for the reply. I can't tell you why, but at least 25% of my SACD rips would clip on Audiogate if I left the gain at the 0.0 default (which is +6db added). It's just a fact. In some cases I'd clip nearly 2db off the top! That's why I do it.

 

[ted_b]

is not the point, the point is whether these files are played native DSD (very few DACs) or played converted to PCM (whether via our methods or via the player on-the-fly, cnverted to PCM is the most prevalent way to listen to DSD). Just because you can take a whole ISO and play it (via Foobar, for example) does not mean it's native DSD. In 95% of the DACS outh there, it must be converted. What DAC are you using?

 

[pepar]

ted_b, I would be using something like PopCorn Hour, Dune or XMBC ... haven't gotten to that step yet. Still trying to get it all sorted out in my head first. Anyway, my networked device would pass everything to my Onkyo 5508 and all the digital-to-analog conversion would happen there.

 

Jeff

 

[Trev or Trevor]

Most, if not all of the SACDs I ripped would have clipping if I

use the 6db gain in Saracon. I leave it at 0 gain and normalize to

the value of the loudest track. In all cases, the value was under

6db. Granted I've only ripped and converted about 20 SACDs and

they were all rock and pop. That was with no dither. I find dither

adds additional gain and also adds gaps.

 

 

[ted_b]

via HDMI. That should work fine, assuming the player in question can read ISO's. This sub-discussion is really about using an external dedicated 2 channel DAC that does not read DSD, thereby needing to convert to PCM.

 

ISO's are simply large images (usually entire albums). Somewhere in the chain they are broken down into tracks, whether by the player or by our extraction method to individual DSDIFFs.

 

[agentsmith]

Thanks for the confirmation. Any idea roughly when the update will be distributed to our dirty hands? Last time we waited many months, if not a year for the USB 24/192 upgrade. That is a hardware upgrade though. Hopefully the firmware only DSD upgrade will come soon.

 

Right not the DSD-PCM conversion is just a temporary solution, until native DSD playback comes.

 

[pepar]

What's the latest advice on where to find an SACD-compatible PS3?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[joelha]

The best place is Ebay, but it's critical to find a model which is SACD capable and with an OS which is 3.55 or earlier.

 

Having said that, the models are getting harder and harder to find.

 

Ask the seller for the information you need if it's not listed in his ad.

 

Joel

 

[ted_b]

CECHA (60GB), CECHB (20GB), CECHC (60GB but PAL only), and CECHE (80GB). All of these models are at least 4 yrs old.

http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html#_Toc180147566

 

[elcorso]

@rapep, I found mine in Amazon, with almost the same link as Ted:

 

http://www.ps3sacd.com/ps3hardware.html

 

Roch

 

[pepar]

Thanks all. Knew about the model number chart. Didn't know where to look. Headed to ebay ...

 

Jeff

 

[fatherom]

Make sure the optical drive has never been swapped out (during a refurbish, for example). Only the original optical drives in those units support SACD playback.

 

[pepar]

20-60-80 ... there's the first thing to look at ... the drive size. That will make it go a bit quicker.

 

[pepar]

Do we have a way of crossing UPC top model number? Many listings provide the UPC.

 

Jeff

 

[ted_b]

Most of the 80Gb machines out there are 3rd gen model L and K, neither SACD capable.

 

[pepar]

Just bought one PS3 CECHA01 60gb model. eBay listing says it is on update version 2.70. $200.

 

... anxiety ...

 

Jeff

 

[pepar]

Right, but my point was that if it was any other drive size than 20, 60 or 80, I would not need to read any further in the listing. If it is a 20GB, then I move to the firmware. If 60 or 80, then it's model number first ... and then firmware if the model is A, B or E.

 

Just trying to find the quickest way to winnow it down.

 

Jeff

 

[wappinghigh]

Ted, is the metric halo native DSD compatible?

 

I keep reading what a wonderful multichannel DAC this is.

 

For multichannel SACD, at the moment I'm still old school on this, using an NAD M series universal disc player. Its straight DSD out over analog. I dont think I could go back....

 

Cheers

 

Wap