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Very beginner type questions about music servers, especially DIY


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I kept playing CDs through around 2017, when I finally ripped my CD collection to disk and got a USB DAC. At the time, I was in touch with a guy from the New Jersey Audiophile Society who said he was using a NUC running Windows 10 and Foobar2000 to play music through his USB DAC, physically modified a bit (adding grounding and ERS paper inside the chassis and around the USB connectors). He said he would do the same thing for me if I wanted to use a NUC, so ended up with the exact same setup. I also powered the NUC by a 19V linear power supply I got from a Chinese company called GZLOZONE, also slightly modified with ERS paper.

 

My NUC has always been fairly low powered. 2 Cores, just 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD drive. I wanted to see if upgrading to a more recent model with more power would improve sound quality. I bought a 32 GB/ 1TB i7 11th-generation NUC running Windows 11 and got that running with my LPS. The sound has become more exciting and dynamic, for sure. I'm still exploring whether it has a higher noise floor. Not obviously so.

 

But I started researching other options (maybe should have done that before buying a new NUC, LOL [it's returnable]) and my understanding is that I need some kind of music server... i.e. that's the concept I'm looking for, and it could be a NUC, a Raspberry Pi, or something branded and self-contained. I'm not very interested in streaming, so I want to play my ripped CDs which I already have on a hard drive and backed up to the cloud. I want to use my existing DAC with this server.

 

My budget is around $1000 for hardware and any software I need.

 

I'm very new to this whole area, as I've just been doing things the same way for the last seven years with no exploration until now.

 

Can someone enlighten me as to the overall types of options I have? For example, DIY versus branded/self-contained? Or something like that? 

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12 hours ago, mike1127 said:

I kept playing CDs through around 2017, when I finally ripped my CD collection to disk and got a USB DAC. At the time, I was in touch with a guy from the New Jersey Audiophile Society who said he was using a NUC running Windows 10 and Foobar2000 to play music through his USB DAC, physically modified a bit (adding grounding and ERS paper inside the chassis and around the USB connectors). He said he would do the same thing for me if I wanted to use a NUC, so ended up with the exact same setup. I also powered the NUC by a 19V linear power supply I got from a Chinese company called GZLOZONE, also slightly modified with ERS paper.

 

My NUC has always been fairly low powered. 2 Cores, just 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD drive. I wanted to see if upgrading to a more recent model with more power would improve sound quality. I bought a 32 GB/ 1TB i7 11th-generation NUC running Windows 11 and got that running with my LPS. The sound has become more exciting and dynamic, for sure. I'm still exploring whether it has a higher noise floor. Not obviously so.

 

But I started researching other options (maybe should have done that before buying a new NUC, LOL [it's returnable]) and my understanding is that I need some kind of music server... i.e. that's the concept I'm looking for, and it could be a NUC, a Raspberry Pi, or something branded and self-contained. I'm not very interested in streaming, so I want to play my ripped CDs which I already have on a hard drive and backed up to the cloud. I want to use my existing DAC with this server.

 

My budget is around $1000 for hardware and any software I need.

 

I'm very new to this whole area, as I've just been doing things the same way for the last seven years with no exploration until now.

 

Can someone enlighten me as to the overall types of options I have? For example, DIY versus branded/self-contained? Or something like that? 

I will try my best to provide a high level suggestion. Can you please advise what you are trying to achieve in a music server? Do you use streaming services, or you are mainly just using a pc for local content? Please tell us a bit more about the rest of your setup, usb dac, speakers, headphones, amp, preamp….?? 
 

cheers

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Thanks! I'll give some background.

 

The highest priority for sound quality is local content on a hard drive. I also have an Amazon Music subscription, but I only use it to discover new music. If I like something, I buy the CD and rip it. I also purchase hi-res files from time to time including DSD.

 

My USB DAC is a Gustard X20 that has been highly modified by this guy in New Jersey. He added bypass capacitors, damping, shielding, and ERS (ERS is a kind of cloth that absorbs RFI).

 

My server should, above all else, be the highest quality possible USB source for the DAC.

 

Since 2017 I've been using a 2-core, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SDD NUC, also modified by the same guy to clean up the USB power, more shielding and ERS, etc. The reason I want to upgrade is that my old NUC was pretty underpowered and I suspect having plenty of extra power will improve the sound, Or perhaps I want to get something that's more appropriate for the job of server: maybe a Raspberry PI with stripped down OS and software?

 

I have a 19V linear power supply, 100W, from a Chinese company, to power the NUC.

 

I have both speakers and headphones. The speakers are a pair of Spendor S3/5. They are driven by a B&K ST120 (an amp that was popular in the 70's). But my room doesn't have good acoustics (it's tiny) and my main emphasis for quality is headphone listening. I have a Hifiman EF5 headphone amp (12AU7/FET) also modified by the same guy, and Audeze LCD-2 (pre-fazor) headphones.

 

Thanks.

 

 

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Thanks. My suggestion might be something you have not really considered before and would be lower than your budget of $1k
 

Hardware wise, your mini pc i7 11th gen would be fine or maybe something like a i3 N305 mini pc would suffice. 
 

You will be much better off spending the money on the hqplayer software  license plus a raspberry pi 4 as a network endpoint - NAA

 

https://signalyst.com/

 

that will allow you to play your local content, supports qobuz within the app and with some further setup will allow Amazon hd streaming playback as well.

 

Hqplayer will improve sound quality because 

 

1) hqplayer does high quality external upsampling and can convert all your music source to dsd on the fly using your powerful pc, so your dac only takes care of the final digital to analog conversion and not having to worry about using the tiny dac chip of the gustard to do upsampling.

 

2) with hqplayer, you can take advantage of their network endpoint structure so you don’t have to worry about using lps or expensive power supply for your mini pc. The idea is that you use your dirty nasty powerful pc to do all the heavy duty processing, when it is done, the processed digital tracks/data gets through Ethernet that is transformer isolated of noise, to your network endpoint, which is your raspberry pi 4 - a headless, low noise mini pc, then you connect your raspberry pi 4 to your dac 


hqplayer offers full feature trial version so you can hear the sound quality improvement before paying for the full license 


hope this helps

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40 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

Thanks. My suggestion might be something you have not really considered before and would be lower than your budget of $1k
 

Hardware wise, your mini pc i7 11th gen would be fine or maybe something like a i3 N305 mini pc would suffice. 
 

You will be much better off spending the money on the hqplayer software  license plus a raspberry pi 4 as a network endpoint - NAA

 

https://signalyst.com/

 

that will allow you to play your local content, supports qobuz within the app and with some further setup will allow Amazon hd streaming playback as well.

 

Hqplayer will improve sound quality because 

 

1) hqplayer does high quality external upsampling and can convert all your music source to dsd on the fly using your powerful pc, so your dac only takes care of the final digital to analog conversion and not having to worry about using the tiny dac chip of the gustard to do upsampling.

 

2) with hqplayer, you can take advantage of their network endpoint structure so you don’t have to worry about using lps or expensive power supply for your mini pc. The idea is that you use your dirty nasty powerful pc to do all the heavy duty processing, when it is done, the processed digital tracks/data gets through Ethernet that is transformer isolated of noise, to your network endpoint, which is your raspberry pi 4 - a headless, low noise mini pc, then you connect your raspberry pi 4 to your dac 


hqplayer offers full feature trial version so you can hear the sound quality improvement before paying for the full license 


hope this helps

 

Not everyone wants spend time hacking at linux with command line. Just saying.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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2 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

Not everyone wants spend time hacking at linux with command line. Just saying.

I use windows desktop version, and it basically just click and play. 
 

Utilizing a raspberry pi 4 as a NAA is a optional feature and it is as easy as downloading an image and burn it to a sd card and power on  

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Realistically, you can’t expect sound quality will improve simply by buying a new pc, unless you are using your pc with unique software to process dsp and upsampling and take advantage of network audio connectivity to address noise… etc 

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Hi dericchan1, 

 

A few questions:

 

- I'm not located near my router and can't run Ethernet cable to it. I use the WiFi on my NUC to connect to the internet. I also turn off WiFi for doing critical listening, as it generates RFI inside the computer case. So, what I'm wondering is whether there's another way to use a low-noise connection to the Raspberry PI. 

 

- Using a RPi as a NAA, how does that affect what software is available to browse and select files? I have some features I need in that regard, such as a 4-column browser provided by Foobar2000 (Genre, Artist, Composer, and Album). I may want to add control by a remote or by my iPad... what options are available there?

 

- Even separating the server from the NAA, I would still want a low-noise power supply for the NAA as well as high-quality hardware such as the USB output, and keep the USB output low noise. Can I do those things with a Raspberry Pi 4.

 

- In my old NUC, playing music (just 44/16 files) took 30% CPU. In my new NUC (which I'm not committed to keeping) playing files takes 3% CPU. I do believe that for whatever reason, the sound quality is more immediate, transients are faster, and there's more high-end extension. Anyway I'm not committed to keeping this setup if something better is out there.

 

- Isn't upsampling controversial? I tried upsampling with JRiver to higher PCM rates, never tried DSD, but it worsened the quality. My DAC does very well with 44/16 files. In any case, I'm willing to try it.

 

Note that I'm a programmer and have use Linux before, so I'm not afraid of command lines.

 

 

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I am not sure I have the answer for NAA connection over wifi, I seem to recalled people talked about that before. Best to ask @Miska who is the developer of hqplayer. 
 

There are at least a couple hundred different hqplayer related threads here on audiophilestyle forum and Miska is very responsive to inquiries.


Not much controversy about upsampling, if you don’t use hqplayer to do upsampling, your dac chip will have to do it. 

It cost nothing to try it and see if you like it. 
 

With regards to NAA, yes you can really dig down the rabbit hole of getting super fancy power supplies or some people even use a $10k aqua Lin Q as a hqplayer NAA…. Reality is if a raspberry pi 4 can be powered by a 5v1.5a power supply, how much noise can it generate…you can also use a $400 intona usb galvanic isolator to place in front of the raspberry pi 4 to eliminate any noise…honestly that’s way more controversial than external upsampling but it’s all there if you feel like tinkering.

 

 

 

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As for the playback and library management and sorting by artists, genres…. there are a number of options for that, 1) hqplayer comes with a client app that does playback (for both local and qobuz streaming) 2) hqplayer comes with a mobile app iOS or android (for local content only) 3) there is a WUI you can load it up in your network, and you can just use your phone, tablet or laptop … to connect to the WUI (local content only)

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Well the NAA provides benefit aside from whether I use upsampling, right? 

 

I looked at the website you linked and I'm not sure whether I need the desktop version of hqplayer, or the embedded version. I also noticed the desktop version said it needed an nvidia graphics card.

 

What is a WUI?

 

Thanks!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, mike1127 said:

Well the NAA provides benefit aside from whether I use upsampling, right? 

 

I looked at the website you linked and I'm not sure whether I need the desktop version of hqplayer, or the embedded version. I also noticed the desktop version said it needed an nvidia graphics card.

 

What is a WUI?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Wui - web user interface, so you start the Wui in your network. A ip address will be provided to you. You will just enter the ip address with your cell phone or tablet or laptop and you can select music playback …

 

You only need a Nvidia graphics in order to run some of the really resource demanding digital filters, definitely not a requirement

 

would suggest you try the desktop version for now just for the simplicity. There is no reason to invest more time in this if you don’t already enjoy the sound quality of hqplayer, right?

 

 

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The OP is like me in that his priority is playing CD rips, he values tags, he knows the usefulness of foobar2000, he's not convinced at this time about upsampling and his instinct tells him that his "server should, above all else, be the highest quality possible ... source for the DAC."

 

After years of developing a great sounding system I am yet to venture into serious upsampling. If and when I do it will be either PGGB or intra-DAC. I tried HQPlayer and loathe it ergonomically. I don't use my HQPlayer license: it's been a total waste of money for me. foobar2000 is much more useful. The OP knows how to - and wants to - browse and select files for play in foobar2000 based on columns i.e. tags ... this is my first prerogative. OP you don't have to limit yourself to 4 columns! You can have as many as you want including bespoke. HQPlayer is a total infant in comparison and will never be any substitute for foobar2000. My ears are quite happy with Sox x4 in foobar2000.

 

The OP is unlike me in that he's willing to use a phone/tablet at the listening position.

 

All in all my advice would be to do a lot more research, discovering what he really wants. Yes this Forum is a truly great resource. Trial and error is unavoidable and, so, due diligence is wise.

 

He's happy with the new NUC on LPS. Be patient. Buy some CDs instead. It's all about music, right? He will still have the CDs in years to come.

 

Most of us agree about clean power.

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25 minutes ago, krass said:

can you find/ buy a second-hand Aurender for $1000 where you are ?

 

 

I found an N100H for $1100 online. 

 

I was also looking into the iFi Zen Stream. I don't know if these are essentially the same type of device... something that takes audio over the LAN (in my case, WiFi) and sends it via USB to the DAC. 

 

I'm looking into what software I need on the "server" computer (not sure if that's the right term) that will let me browse my collection and start streaming music to the Zen or Aurender. I think HQPlayer can do it. How about JRiver? I already have a license for JRiver on my MacBook.

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3 hours ago, Iving said:

The OP is like me in that his priority is playing CD rips, he values tags, he knows the usefulness of foobar2000, he's not convinced at this time about upsampling and his instinct tells him that his "server should, above all else, be the highest quality possible ... source for the DAC."

 

After years of developing a great sounding system I am yet to venture into serious upsampling. If and when I do it will be either PGGB or intra-DAC. I tried HQPlayer and loathe it ergonomically. I don't use my HQPlayer license: it's been a total waste of money for me. foobar2000 is much more useful. The OP knows how to - and wants to - browse and select files for play in foobar2000 based on columns i.e. tags ... this is my first prerogative. OP you don't have to limit yourself to 4 columns! You can have as many as you want including bespoke. HQPlayer is a total infant in comparison and will never be any substitute for foobar2000. My ears are quite happy with Sox x4 in foobar2000.

 

The OP is unlike me in that he's willing to use a phone/tablet at the listening position.

 

All in all my advice would be to do a lot more research, discovering what he really wants. Yes this Forum is a truly great resource. Trial and error is unavoidable and, so, due diligence is wise.

 

He's happy with the new NUC on LPS. Be patient. Buy some CDs instead. It's all about music, right? He will still have the CDs in years to come.

 

Most of us agree about clean power.

 

Thank, Iving. I downloaded HQPlayer on my NUC and cannot figure out the interface. Some software designers believe that if you can't learn how to operate the software just from poking around (given that I understand technically what I'm expecting it to do) then it's badly designed software.

 

I'm going to spend some time tonight listening to the NUC both for enjoyment and to get the sound in my ear. I'm willing to try one other approach at this time and that's the max time I'll put into this. For instance I could try the iFi Zen Stream as another approach.

 

EDIT: I have a super high quality 12V LPS that I could use to power the iFi.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, mike1127 said:

………

I'm looking into what software I need on the "server" computer (not sure if that's the right term) that will let me browse my collection and start streaming music to the Zen or Aurender.

 

I had an Aurender X100L & was exceptionally pleased with it. The N100H is not delivered standard with SSD for music storage but it can be fitted - definitely worth having & checking to see if the advertised one has “user SSD”.

 

The system architecture with an Aurender does not need a separate “server computer” and you do not “stream music TO the Aurender”. It is the server, and it does the streaming.

- Local music can be played either from its own SSD disks (if fitted) or local network (music files on a NAS etc)

- internet streaming is possible (Tidal, Qobuz etc)

 

In my case, I kept a master copy of my music files on a computer, and rsync’d the master copy to the Aurender internal SSD disks. During playback the computer is not involved at all.. it’s only there because I chose to use it for management of music source files. You can use a NAS for the same.

 

The Aurender is a really great music source, but it has a couple of potential drawbacks:

- my X100L did not have WiFi so a WIRED ethernet connection is mandatory to the local network (needed to talk to the Conductor App, transfer music source files and internet streaming services)

- Conductor App has to be hosted on an iPad, so you need an iPad on your WiFi network.

- my X100L audio output was USB, so you need a USB DAC.

*) I’m not sure if the above applies to all Aurender models, but worth checking….

 

If it works for you it’s a great solution….

 

 

Grimm Mu-1 > Mola Mola Makua/DAC > Luxman m900u > Vivid Audio Kaya 90

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32 minutes ago, mike1127 said:

Thank, Iving. I downloaded HQPlayer on my NUC and cannot figure out the interface. Some software designers believe that if you can't learn how to operate the software just from poking around (given that I understand technically what I'm expecting it to do) then it's badly designed software.

 

I'm going to spend some time tonight listening to the NUC both for enjoyment and to get the sound in my ear. I'm willing to try one other approach at this time and that's the max time I'll put into this. For instance I could try the iFi Zen Stream as another approach.

 

EDIT: I have a super high quality 12V LPS that I could use to power the iFi.

 

At first I thought HQPlayer Trial version had limited functionality. It doesn't. I proceeded anyway hedging that I could make it work for me if I adjusted sufficiently. I even spent a long time re-tagging my large flac Library just to indulge HQPlayer's curious mores. HQPlayer is not a Player as such. It's a DSP engine - at which no doubt it excels - and is the right upsampling solution for some people. If you're used to tag-based selection of music in foobar2000 - especially on the fly [you choose what you want, when you want, and you can make instant decisions freely - all reflected in a playback queue - moreover you may want to use bespoke tags and bespoke algorithms to select/Filter music] - HQPlayer is only going to frustrate the heck out of you. otoh if you like Albums and the pretty pictures that go with Albums - whether they correctly match your specific CD issue or not - and just want to hit play and interfere no more whilst the Album proceeds - then HQPlayer might be up your alley. I don't want Album Art at all - or wiggly lines - or smoky background things - neither of which you can get rid of - or anything else like that. I reduce foobar2000 to monochrome as I am interested only its function. I want to be inspired only by the music or by stylistic preferences I choose or create myself. I can play 16/44.1 flac x 4 in foobar2000 on my PC which - like your NUC - barely sweats the CPU at all. Some people swear by low power in the PC/CPU. Also I am religiously offline (may not be important to you) whereas HQPlayer wants to phone home after v 4.16x or something. You have a lot to think about. I think you are wise to focus on exploiting the hardware you have. You may like the idea of HQPlayer eventually. Or some other approach favoured by other enthusiasts. But you want to go in eyes-open. Wish you all the best! CDs are great! [imho]

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44 minutes ago, krass said:

 

I had an Aurender X100L & was exceptionally pleased with it. The N100H is not delivered standard with SSD for music storage but it can be fitted - definitely worth having & checking to see if the advertised one has “user SSD”.

 

The Aurender is a really great music source, but it has a couple of potential drawbacks:

- my X100L did not have WiFi so a WIRED ethernet connection is mandatory to the local network (needed to talk to the Conductor App, transfer music source files and internet streaming services)

- Conductor App has to be hosted on an iPad, so you need an iPad on your WiFi network.

- my X100L audio output was USB, so you need a USB DAC.

*) I’m not sure if the above applies to all Aurender models, but worth checking….

 

If it works for you it’s a great solution….

 

 

I do have a USB DAC that I'm happy with (a custom modified Gustard X20). 

 

I don't have a way to reach the router with Ethernet but I think I could use one of those Wi-Fi range extenders that has an ethernet output. Not sure how that would affect the sound. EDIT: I did find some N100H models online that have a HDD installed, around 2 to 4 TB, for an average price of $1300. One of them comes with "1 GB of Jazz preloaded."

 

It probably comes down to whether I would be happy with the Conductor app. I can't stand grids of album covers... too hard to find anything that way. I need multiple filters and textual lists, like the macOS Music app in the Song mode. If I'm searching for albums, I need a list of album titles, not a list of tracks (too many tracks to deal with when they are all listed separately). JRiver, Apple Music (the replacement for ITunes) and Foobar2000 all provide column filtering. 

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18 minutes ago, mike1127 said:

I don't have a way to reach the router with Ethernet but I think I could use one of those Wi-Fi range extenders that has an ethernet output. Not sure how that would affect the sound. EDIT: I did find some N100H models online that have a HDD installed, around 2 to 4 TB, for an average price of $1300. One of them comes with "1 GB of Jazz preloaded."

 

That works (I also used a WiFi Access Point which had an ethernet port in Bridge Mode for a time).

It has no effect on sound quality because the music files are stored on the Aurender. It is only needed to connect the Aurender to the Conductor App on the iPad which is the “controller”, so not a high bandwidth use and not in the music path at all.

 

If you choose to play music over the network (from a NAS etc) then music does pass through that WiFi connection, but the Aurender caches music files on its own internal NVME SSD and plays from there. The WiFi is used to transfer the music song file “en block” and that is not part of the audio production.

 

18 minutes ago, mike1127 said:

It probably comes down to whether I would be happy with the Conductor app. I can't stand grids of album covers... too hard to find anything that way. I need multiple filters and textual lists, like the macOS Music app in the Song mode. If I'm searching for albums, I need a list of album titles, not a list of tracks (too many tracks to deal with when they are all listed separately). JRiver, Apple Music (the replacement for ITunes) and Foobar2000 all provide column filtering. 

 

it’s worth looking online at how the Conductor interface works…

  •  
  • 2.jpg
  •  
  •  

there are multiple “views” such as, SONG, ALBUM, ARTIST, GENRE etc selected by a top-tier tab (finger touch). There is a second-tier tab that can be used for second level sorting (eg GENRE) so you can view ALBUM+JAZZ if you want. Results can be cover art or a list. The search bar then works on that selection, so if you start typing Blakey you’ll see all albums, genre Jazz with Blakey. You can do the same for songs, artists, etc. On top of that you can filter on 16/24 bit and high res DSD and last 30 days for recent updates. It’s intuitive and reasonably powerful, esp. the multi tier filtering. If you want to get clever you can create your own second level tab structure (it uses the sub folder structure and names so could be anything you choose depending on how you setup the subfolders… )

 

It also has its own star filtering, so once albums or songs have a star rating assigned you can filter again (on top of all other filters ) for 4* or better, or 2* or better etc.

 

It’s intuitive, easy, quite flexible and fast because the database is loaded on the iPad (database file is only about 50-100kb in size). The Aurender can scan the music source files daily (or more as you want)  and rebuilds the database file in the background; transfer to iPad takes a few seconds only.

 

Have a look at some YouTube videos of the app ?

 

 

 

Grimm Mu-1 > Mola Mola Makua/DAC > Luxman m900u > Vivid Audio Kaya 90

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2 hours ago, mike1127 said:

I'm looking into what software I need on the "server" computer (not sure if that's the right term) that will let me browse my collection and start streaming music to the Zen or Aurender. I think HQPlayer can do it. How about JRiver? I already have a license for JRiver on my MacBook.

 

iFi Zen Stream has built-in HQPlayer NAA support and NAA exclusive mode selectable from the back panel rotary switch.

 

HQPlayer can have three network entities; the control application (HQPlayer Client, HQPDcontrol, etc), the server component doing actual playback and DSP and the optional network endpoint (NAA) if the DAC is located away from the server.

 

It can have also fourth network entity, which is input endpoint. Because it can look like a DAC to other hardware sources.

 

On macOS you can route audio of any other application through HQPlayer using BlackHole loopback driver.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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2 hours ago, mike1127 said:

I found an N100H for $1100 online. 

 

I was also looking into the iFi Zen Stream. I don't know if these are essentially the same type of device... something that takes audio over the LAN (in my case, WiFi) and sends it via USB to the DAC. 

 

I'm looking into what software I need on the "server" computer (not sure if that's the right term) that will let me browse my collection and start streaming music to the Zen or Aurender. I think HQPlayer can do it. How about JRiver? I already have a license for JRiver on my MacBook.

With hqplayer, there are infinite flexibilities how you want to set it up. You don’t need a dedicated music streamer.

 

I have attached some screenshots using my phone of what the webviewer can do in terms of sorting by categories and sub filters and playqueue management… 
 

I personally found foobar super daunting to set up compared to this

IMG_9130.png

IMG_9131.png

IMG_9132.png

IMG_9133.png

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