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Article: It Is The Best of Times . . . Hands Down


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16 minutes ago, bobfa said:

It is the best of times!  I hope more artists can see their way through eliminating middlemen in their distribution chain.  The tech is there to self-publish.  I know that touring seems to be the way to connect with fans, but I worry that it also requires a lot of spare change.  We all have to learn how to market our wares directly.  We must learn how to leverage the giants to focus on our work.  How can we "use" Facebook, etc., in our own best interest?    

 

What can artists do?  Publish a lyric snippet on Facebook, Learn marketing, and build your website (ignore the SEO trap). I do not know what exactly will work.  I am still figuring that out for my businesses.

 

 

How about an artist's corner at an audio show? Remember that the digital world is GLOBAL! Link to other people's music and sites.

 

RJF

 

 

 

I totally agree with you.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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I don’t miss having to ask a clerk to play a CD/LP or calling in a request to a radio station in order to hear something not listened to before. While I don’t believe one can get a good system for $1k or less there are good compromises now in that range. And digital tech is maturing to where DAC’s are much better. Class D amps have made it possible to drive well even the most inefficient speaker

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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8 minutes ago, davide256 said:

I don’t miss having to ask a clerk to play a CD/LP or calling in a request to a radio station in order to hear something not listened to before. While I don’t believe one can get a good system for $1k or less there are good compromises now in that range. And digital tech is maturing to where DAC’s are much better. Class D amps have made it possible to drive well even the most inefficient speaker

 

Older audiophiles wonder why more younger people are not into audio - the bolded statement is one of the turn offs for them.

 

Back on topic.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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I think music preferences have become more geographical/regional today.  My live music choices are plentiful -but generally lean to the southern rock/ bluegrass influenced because that’s where I live.  We do get larger concerts from some of the older bands who are still touring, but I wonder what we are missing sometimes.  Journey for example- or ZZTop, the Beatles, The Who, or so many others that in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s would come on to the national and even global scenes presumably due at least in part to unique talents/ creative ability.  Sure, they were backed and marketed by large corporations -but usually for a reason…

 

Where are they now?  I know the talent and creativity is still there, but it isn’t easy to sort through to find it.

QNAP NAS w/minimserver, iBuypower  i7 13700kf,  RTXa5000 24g GPU, Ubuntu 22.04 LTS minimal server, HQPe v5 x64 avx2, HQPDcontrol4,  HQPlayer Client iOS, mconnect playerHD, JplayiOS, Daphile on Asus PN-51-s1 (AMD 5700u) in Akasa fanless case, NAA 5.0.0 image on Fitlet2 , Lampizator Big 7 MKII Balanced, Placette Balanced Passive Linestage, Pass XVR1, Pass X5, Pass XA 100.5’s, PSB Stratus Gold(i)’s, Vandersteen 2wq’s.

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50 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Older audiophiles wonder why more younger people are not into audio - the bolded statement is one of the turn offs for them.

 

I disagree that higher prices have anything to do with younger people not being into audio. If anything, higher prices get younger people to notice that there's something out there that's better than what they have. As a kid I could never afford Mark Levinson gear, but it made me pay attention and save my money for it. It was aspirational gear. I purchased whatever I could afford, rather than stop being interested in the hobby. 

 

The $13,000,000 Rolls Royce Sweptail doesn't turn me off from driving or an interest in nice cars. It makes me realize there are people / companies out there striving for something better / different, and I love it. 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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2 hours ago, joelha said:

I'll take issue with at least portions of the last two statements:

 

Here's a $1,000 system that would sound decent:

 

Speakers - Debut 2.0 // DB62 Bookshelf - https://www.elac.com/db62 -$279.98

 

Integrated amplifier - NAD C316BEE V2 - https://www.crutchfield.com/S-g4OndonVypo/p_745C316V2/NAD-C316BEE-V2.html - $399.00

 

DAC - Schiit Modi Multibit - https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-multibit-2 - $299.00

 

To stay within budget, we'll cheap out on the cable and interconnects for this system but I've heard Elac budget speakers, Schiit dac's and still own an old NAD amplifier.

 

I'm sure others could create a combination which would be equally if not more impressive for under $1,000.

 

The issue is not price it's, as my article stated, that convenience in our society is increasingly trumping quality.

 

People are less inclined to sit in one place and be blown away by their music.

 

The other issue is that the brand names I've mentioned are generally unknown to the vast majority of non-audiophiles.

 

Joel

Lets can the Debuts, I have them, snore….

From what I read the Triangle Borea BR03 speakers get a lot of love from reputable reviewers, run $349

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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1 minute ago, davide256 said:

Lets can the Debuts, I have them, snore….

From what I read the Triangle Borea BR03 speakers get a lot of love from reputable reviewers, run $349

I'll take your first-hand experience over my assumption.

 

Joel

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2 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

The limited budget of young people make different technologies and services compete against each other.

 

Same as it ever was. Not related to younger people being uninterested becuase there is expensive stuff available. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

It's Netflix vs. gaming. Vs hq audio, live music, sports etc.

 

Same as it ever was, just with even more options.

 

 

4 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

The outcome, in my view, is much less focussed on music and its reproduction, and the gaming side may bear as many potential audiophiles as the music side.

 

This is exactly what I was saying. Young people have many things competing for their interests and dollars. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

However, the major industry doesn't offer too much interesting stuff for them,

 

Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.

 

 

5 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

the good offers are from outsiders/newcomers

 

I don't understand this. Must new businesses remain on the "ouside" and must established businesses refrain from "good offers?"

 

 

7 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

these are discussed at Reddit and other sources more prone to be read by younger people.

 

This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?

 

 

6 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

The luxury segment bears almost no value for reasonable sound quality, imho

 

Value is always in the eye of the beholder and doesn't have much to do with the original statement of high prices turning younger people away from HiFi.

 

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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3 hours ago, joelha said:

I'll take issue with at least portions of the last two statements:

 

Here's a $1,000 system that would sound decent:

 

Speakers - Debut 2.0 // DB62 Bookshelf - https://www.elac.com/db62 -$279.98

 

Integrated amplifier - NAD C316BEE V2 - https://www.crutchfield.com/S-g4OndonVypo/p_745C316V2/NAD-C316BEE-V2.html - $399.00

 

DAC - Schiit Modi Multibit - https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-multibit-2 - $299.00

 

To stay within budget, we'll cheap out on the cable and interconnects for this system but I've heard Elac budget speakers, Schiit dac's and still own an old NAD amplifier.

 

I'm sure others could create a combination which would be equally if not more impressive for under $1,000.

 

The issue is not price it's, as my article stated, that convenience in our society is increasingly trumping quality.

 

People are less inclined to sit in one place and be blown away by their music.

 

The other issue is that the brand names I've mentioned are generally unknown to the vast majority of non-audiophiles.

 

Joel

I think you can get everything you need from  a $299 WIIM AMP, incl DAC and DRC and HP-Filter for Sub integration. Leaves you 700 bucks for speakers and perhaps a Sub or a BT turntable

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26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Same as it ever was. Not related to younger people being uninterested becuase there is expensive stuff available. 

 

 

 

Same as it ever was, just with even more options.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I was saying. Young people have many things competing for their interests and dollars. 

 

 

 

Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.

 

 

 

I don't understand this. Must new businesses remain on the "ouside" and must established businesses refrain from "good offers?"

 

 

 

This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?

 

 

 

Value is always in the eye of the beholder and doesn't have much to do with the original statement of high prices turning younger people away from HiFi.

 

 

 

sorry, blocked for the evening, will return tomorrow morning to respond

 

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On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:
On 3/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, DuckToller said:

It's Netflix vs. gaming. Vs hq audio, live music, sports etc.

 

Same as it ever was, just with even more options.

Would you disagree that with this multiplying of options and the introduction of advanced technology wrt marketing/targeting customers, the available stake for young people (16-30 years) in our hobby has changed in nominal size?

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On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.

Happy you've asked ! Some clarification seems to be neccessary:

The major Industry related to the discussion (to me) is
a) The Audio Gear industry
b) The Music industry
c) (partly) The Event Management industry

As major – which  I may need to explain – I do regard mature industries, where actors are concentrating in organization (integrating / grouping – national or international) and change their focus from product quality & serving customers to serving particularly the interest of certain ranges inside their stakeholders. This is in my opion the core problems of most industrial environments after the millenium.

As a customer I may think I am allowed to have that opinion. If I would be stakeholder in these “certain ranges” I may perhaps disagree with a pure customer-centric viewpoint, but I am looking at gear mostly from the customer side. Certainly there is an art/craft in manufacturing

The key word in that phrase – otoh – has been interesting (meeting the interest of younger generations in price, function and practicability for their real life situation).

Here’s another example from real life::
My now 20 year old son just bought music equipment from Yamaha using his salary he’s earned in his 3rd year civil service as a student. Though, it wasn’t a better DAC than the WIIM mini he has inherited or a better HP than his 5 year old Sony wireless over ear. No -  he decided to go for a E-piano, because he missed playing music himself so much more than the difference he may have heard with a better DAC or headphones. ;-)

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On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:
On 3/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, DuckToller said:

hese are discussed at Reddit and other sources more prone to be read by younger people.

 

This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?

Depends on your definition of false ;-)
It might be false to assume that because Reddit has a subreddit called /audiophile, that the posters/readers are prone to spend in top third of the market which atm defines the term “audiophile” with its presence within audiophile press and events.

There might be other "false" assumptions be possible and not completely untrue ;-)

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Given my opinion may sound quite critical to extreme capitalism, I’d like to clarify
1)That I deeply criticize (from a post historical position) real existent socialism (alt. communism) , post-socialism  and it’s outcome in the 21st century. For failed economics, injustice and especially personal freedom related shortcomings of “the chosen few” which usually made/make the majority of people in these systems suffer for the “new” aristorcrazy.
2)  Imho, the same reasoning /criticism should be applied on capitalist industrial systems, too

3)   My vision on economic matters may reflect on reality (and data), not on illusions like wealth and “the American dream”, that even in America barely allows the Pareto optimum to be successful in a matter that allows them to live a debt free life

4) Audio equipment is for the majority never the impediment to musical enjoyment, as most teenager with a walkman/discman/ipod/phone may tell you. 
5) for the ones it is important, we are discussing and presenting opinions here about equipment, music set ups etc., and I hope that I am not mistaken that a couple of readers may agree with me and I am happy that others agree with your views, too !

;-)

 

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2 hours ago, DuckToller said:

There is a strange thing about defining value.
You may value your debts not as important, but your depth holder values them as important, and then their nominal value defines the interest which is attached to it. As soon as your personal valuation starts to differ you may enter a high interest zone, afaik.

The high priced equipment sector, which in my opinion allows the industry to be kind of “self-nurturing” (which may have good and bad sides, depending which perspective you own), is imho out of any realistic reach for reasonable audio enthusiasts from the Millennials or Gen Z generations.

However, it is a high interest zone, where consumer attach a great personal valuation on equipment for personal reasons, which aren’t necessarily function / performance related. Imho, acting in these “zones” demands one of the two prepositions:
1) You can afford the to partake in that market, or
2) you can’t afford that, but you aren’t afraid of getting indebted for your hobby.

I would assume, that if not one these conditions are met, the luxury/jewelry side of the audio industry may not be particularly interesting for audio enthusiasts on the long term. To enhance this opinion with prices/nominal values in USD: 5k cables, 20 k Dacs, 40k turntables. 50k amplifier, 100k speakers (stereo set).
For opinion leader it might be necessary to present it for a couple of reasons I may accept, though the number of hobbyists maintaining a 250k audio system seems quite limited to me. And it’s not about technology, but about reality.
It might be as interesting as the antique car collection of one of the Dukes in the Loire valley. Oh, look!

Here are the numbers on which I base my assumptions:
According to NASDAQ, the USA has a Pareto division (20/80) on personal dept. About 80 % are indebted, the average dept (w/o mortgage) is almost 40 K USD (depending on sources), and only about 15-20% of households may earn more than 200k per year (which means they could afford that debt level if they continue to have that earning). I have seen an average of 10% of available income is used for the interest rates on debts in the US in 2023. As usual,  presenting numbers that are fundamental different may perhaps solve the way we look on the problem.

Given that Gen Z and Millennials are not proportionally represented in the debt free 20 %, I may conclude that a transition for peripheral interested in this hobby towards actively interested won’t work out  through the sheer fascination of extremes (in prices, sizes and technology). Actually, as always,  my personal view on that could be wrong or uninformed …

All numbers I can read about student loans, mortgages, consumer credits, credit cards etc. are indicting that the majority of people may need their lifetime to arrive at a debt free status. Which means as well that inheritances in the future will be far from gracious to the younger generations outside the top 20 % (wrt the fact, that this is quite a positive approach, the lower half is imho already a target for the upper one for wealth transfer, but alas I could be wrong, let’s see in 2050 if I was right …)

As there is a competition of suppression on the top 20 border, the American dream for perhaps 90-95% of the lower 80 stays just an illusion and the outlook for younger generations is even bleaker. This is America, today, seen from the outside, according to available numbers. Your number and perspective may be better. You can’t imagine how much I would enjoy that you would be more correct with that than me with my less enthusiast view on the situation.


A last word:
I have the deepest respect what you have achieved personally and your way of managing/moderating this site/forum.
I may think it’s quite exceptional and far above standard. Which otoh means that this kind of achievement in my personal view is not possible for:
a) everyone
b) everyone who tries,
c) everyone with interest and experience in the field who may like to take the risk and doesn’t fear the 24/7 hard work it needs to maintain success.

I may assume: It may work only for one or two handful from all of us, or less …

Acknowledging this does mean to me as well that you may have very specific view on the topic, that naturally differs from mine. And overlaps with mine only in parts at times. All good, if we can agree on that.

You would wonder if this would work for everybody the same way. But that’s another discussion …

Happy you did it, it worked for you and hoping that you’re continuing your hard work.

And now back to the response :

Hi Tom, as always, a thoughtful and respectful reply from you. Yes, we disagree but that’s part of what makes it interesting. 
 

An interesting article I recently read, Millennials Set To Become The Richest Generation in History. No clue if it checks out, but it’s food for thought. 

 

https://fortune.com/2024/02/29/america-wealthest-one-percent-minimum-millennials-richest-generation/amp/

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

for the ones it is important, we are discussing and presenting opinions here about equipment, music set ups etc., and I hope that I am not mistaken that a couple of readers may agree with me and I am happy that others agree with your views, too !

;-)


All good Tom. Anyone who shares an opinion about audio, in a respectful way, is welcome and will benefit the community. 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Would you disagree that with this multiplying of options and the introduction of advanced technology wrt marketing/targeting customers, the available stake for young people (16-30 years) in our hobby has changed in nominal size?

 

 


I’m a bit slow often. What do you mean by “available stake?”

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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