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Article: It Is The Best of Times . . . Hands Down

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15 hours ago, botrytis said:

I support bandcamp because artists get more from it. Labels like streaming because they get more money than the artists do.



Afaik Dave is on of the avid concert go-ers, too. Which may count more for the artist, than a "free" Spotify or Amazon tier.

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3 hours ago, joelha said:

I'll take issue with at least portions of the last two statements:


Here's a $1,000 system that would sound decent:


Speakers - Debut 2.0 // DB62 Bookshelf - https://www.elac.com/db62 -$279.98


Integrated amplifier - NAD C316BEE V2 - https://www.crutchfield.com/S-g4OndonVypo/p_745C316V2/NAD-C316BEE-V2.html - $399.00


DAC - Schiit Modi Multibit - https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-multibit-2 - $299.00


To stay within budget, we'll cheap out on the cable and interconnects for this system but I've heard Elac budget speakers, Schiit dac's and still own an old NAD amplifier.


I'm sure others could create a combination which would be equally if not more impressive for under $1,000.


The issue is not price it's, as my article stated, that convenience in our society is increasingly trumping quality.


People are less inclined to sit in one place and be blown away by their music.


The other issue is that the brand names I've mentioned are generally unknown to the vast majority of non-audiophiles.



I think you can get everything you need from  a $299 WIIM AMP, incl DAC and DRC and HP-Filter for Sub integration. Leaves you 700 bucks for speakers and perhaps a Sub or a BT turntable

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26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:


Same as it ever was. Not related to younger people being uninterested becuase there is expensive stuff available. 




Same as it ever was, just with even more options.




This is exactly what I was saying. Young people have many things competing for their interests and dollars. 




Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.




I don't understand this. Must new businesses remain on the "ouside" and must established businesses refrain from "good offers?"




This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?




Value is always in the eye of the beholder and doesn't have much to do with the original statement of high prices turning younger people away from HiFi.




sorry, blocked for the evening, will return tomorrow morning to respond


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On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:
On 3/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, DuckToller said:

It's Netflix vs. gaming. Vs hq audio, live music, sports etc.


Same as it ever was, just with even more options.

Would you disagree that with this multiplying of options and the introduction of advanced technology wrt marketing/targeting customers, the available stake for young people (16-30 years) in our hobby has changed in nominal size?

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On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Surely you must be joking. Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by major industry.

Happy you've asked ! Some clarification seems to be neccessary:

The major Industry related to the discussion (to me) is
a) The Audio Gear industry
b) The Music industry
c) (partly) The Event Management industry

As major – which  I may need to explain – I do regard mature industries, where actors are concentrating in organization (integrating / grouping – national or international) and change their focus from product quality & serving customers to serving particularly the interest of certain ranges inside their stakeholders. This is in my opion the core problems of most industrial environments after the millenium.

As a customer I may think I am allowed to have that opinion. If I would be stakeholder in these “certain ranges” I may perhaps disagree with a pure customer-centric viewpoint, but I am looking at gear mostly from the customer side. Certainly there is an art/craft in manufacturing

The key word in that phrase – otoh – has been interesting (meeting the interest of younger generations in price, function and practicability for their real life situation).

Here’s another example from real life::
My now 20 year old son just bought music equipment from Yamaha using his salary he’s earned in his 3rd year civil service as a student. Though, it wasn’t a better DAC than the WIIM mini he has inherited or a better HP than his 5 year old Sony wireless over ear. No -  he decided to go for a E-piano, because he missed playing music himself so much more than the difference he may have heard with a better DAC or headphones. ;-)

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On 3/21/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:
On 3/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, DuckToller said:

hese are discussed at Reddit and other sources more prone to be read by younger people.


This seems to say that the original premise of young people not interested, is false?

Depends on your definition of false ;-)
It might be false to assume that because Reddit has a subreddit called /audiophile, that the posters/readers are prone to spend in top third of the market which atm defines the term “audiophile” with its presence within audiophile press and events.

There might be other "false" assumptions be possible and not completely untrue ;-)

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Given my opinion may sound quite critical to extreme capitalism, I’d like to clarify
1)That I deeply criticize (from a post historical position) real existent socialism (alt. communism) , post-socialism  and it’s outcome in the 21st century. For failed economics, injustice and especially personal freedom related shortcomings of “the chosen few” which usually made/make the majority of people in these systems suffer for the “new” aristorcrazy.
2)  Imho, the same reasoning /criticism should be applied on capitalist industrial systems, too

3)   My vision on economic matters may reflect on reality (and data), not on illusions like wealth and “the American dream”, that even in America barely allows the Pareto optimum to be successful in a matter that allows them to live a debt free life

4) Audio equipment is for the majority never the impediment to musical enjoyment, as most teenager with a walkman/discman/ipod/phone may tell you. 
5) for the ones it is important, we are discussing and presenting opinions here about equipment, music set ups etc., and I hope that I am not mistaken that a couple of readers may agree with me and I am happy that others agree with your views, too !



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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Tom, as always, a thoughtful and respectful reply from you. Yes, we disagree but that’s part of what makes it interesting. 

An interesting article I recently read, Millennials Set To Become The Richest Generation in History. No clue if it checks out, but it’s food for thought. 



paywall - but found it on yahoo
however, I may assume there might be some changed demographics behind it, like older parents from the top bracket (example Robert de Niro) - with a limited number of kids inheriting earlier than the majority of our generation.

I have friends older than me with parents in their 90s, which seems to be great, but rationally its less great from a personal wealth perspective as it is in focus in the fortune article, which -imho-  shows a couple of numbers that aren't worthwile without context.

Another thing not effectively explained is the difference in net value compared to the base (i.e. 1980). There is a rate of inflation, rocketing imobilia prices and such. You may not inherit more than your parents (a house, some ground, some money, some gold) , but the nominal value may be tripled ...

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28 minutes ago, firedog said:

Spending big bucks on listening equipment isn't an idea they subscribe to. BTW, almost none of  their parents still have/use a good system, even if they once had one. They've also gone for convenience space saving, etc. The system sits idle - if it is still there. Many aren't even willing to pay $10 a month for streaming. They think free Spotify and YT are good enough. Why pay for music if it's free? Very few listen in anything other than mp3. 

Very true, this !

I've played my youngest son's favorite piano piece for him through his IPhone - BT - Spotify to (then mine/now his) active speakers - and then made him listen to the same in 24/96 flac. He completely appreciated the day/night difference in sound quality, though he continued listening with Spotify quality by BT. He is not buggered at all by this difference, as he values ad-hoc conveniance in daily live much higher than having to invest (time, money, knowledge) into exceptional quality.

I have the feeling that the pure act of listening to music and it's sound qualites as standalone task that receives full concentration is likely quite uncommon for today's younger generations.  Consequently, the perceived value and the attached active invest may be at different levels than with the boomer and gen x.

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