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Article: Digital Signal Processing - The Ultimate Guide To High End Immersive Audio


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23 minutes ago, catastrofe said:

 

 

Thanks Kal and Chris.

 

Kal, you make a good point regarding the value of room correction superseding the perceived disadvantage of downsampling. What hardware supports Dirac Live at 24/192? 

 

Chris, similar question...how are you running DXD with DSP at its native rate? HQPlayer?

 

Thanks gents!

I’ve done with HQPlayer, but lately with Hang Loose Convolver inside JRiver. It works perfect. 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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9 hours ago, catastrofe said:

 

 

Thanks Kal and Chris.

 

Kal, you make a good point regarding the value of room correction superseding the perceived disadvantage of downsampling. What hardware supports Dirac Live at 24/192? 

 

Chris, similar question...how are you running DXD with DSP at its native rate? HQPlayer?

 

Thanks gents!

I think the answer is the same:  A PC which feeds an external DAC.

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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Hello, have any of you tried using the Audient Oria in an ATMOS playback system... for music and film? Any views / ideas even if you have not?

 

I am off to the Munich High End show this coming weekend. I expect most of my time will be spent on stereo speakers with active crossovers. But I also want to have a look at the SPL MC16, which would enable me to get rid of a lot of volume remote controls.

 

I know a lot of you have Merging setups. Or have tried the Arvus. But I wrote to Audient a month or so ago to find out if their gear might work for me. No response so far. If I gave up on DSD surround playback... I could downscale to PCM with HQPlayer so as to be able to listen to my collection at least... then maybe I could reduce the number of DACs and interfaces I use. At present, I have an Arcam AV40 for ATMOS music and film, an exaSound S88 for PCM and DSD surround, and a MOTU interface for stereo microphone input to a BACCH4Mac stereo set up, that feeds another DAC that I have. Note: I am using an Ubuntu machine to serve music via HQPlayer and film via Kodi with Pulseaudio disabled. Though all the ATMOS music is going over Kodi at present.

 

Thanks for any feedback... including completely different helpful ideas.

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3 hours ago, Carousel said:

If I gave up on DSD surround playback... I could downscale to PCM with HQPlayer so as to be able to listen to my collection at least... then maybe I could reduce the number of DACs and interfaces I use.

I have stopped playing native DSD for more than 10 years because room correction had a much, much larger impact on sound quality. 

 

You can reduce the complexity of your setup by using your AV40 with Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC).  DLBC is very good when you have multiple subs. 

 

If you are prepared to spend more, then suggest Storm Audio which also includes the next level of room correction with Dirac Live Active Room Treatment (DLART).

 

i am new here and do not know why DLBC and DLART are not mentioned often. Also puzzling is the widespread use of complex setups with PCs, multi channel DACs, DIY room correction rather than out of the box solutions like AV receivers and processors, media players e.g. Zidoo, disk players e.g. Magnetar and room correction from Dirac and Anthem.

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21 minutes ago, Magnificat said:

i am new here and do not know why DLBC and DLART are not mentioned often. Also puzzling is the widespread use of complex setups with PCs, multi channel DACs, DIY room correction rather than out of the box solutions like AV receivers and processors, media players e.g. Zidoo, disk players e.g. Magnetar and room correction from Dirac and Anthem.


As you can see in the article, the solutions you mention aren’t near state of the art. They are very limited. 

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12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

As you can see in the article, the solutions you mention aren’t near state of the art. They are very limited. 

Interesting that you do not rate Storm Audio.

 

As I mentioned in my initial post, I have a humble setup, with standard components.  It does seem that I am out of step with many people here who are chasing state of the art bespoke Atmos setups.  

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27 minutes ago, Magnificat said:

Interesting that you do not rate Storm Audio.

 

As I mentioned in my initial post, I have a humble setup, with standard components.  It does seem that I am out of step with many people here who are chasing state of the art bespoke Atmos setups.  

I wouldn’t say out of step. We all make choices for what works best in our own situations. 

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4 hours ago, Magnificat said:

Interesting that you do not rate Storm Audio.

 

As I mentioned in my initial post, I have a humble setup, with standard components.  It does seem that I am out of step with many people here who are chasing state of the art bespoke Atmos setups.  

It's not just about Atmos. As noted, the state of the art solutions today are generally not those included with amps, dacs, and AV receivers. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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@Magnificat Thanks for the referral to StormAudio. I did not know about them. Looks like they were at the Munich High End show last year with Perlisten speakers. This year, it looks like it is Trinnov with Perlisten.

 

What I like about the StormAudio ISP EVO (spec below) is that it is all digital. Now, I have not tried a receiver from the likes of Trinnov or StormAudio. But all my experience so far with receivers like those of Marantz-Denon or Arcam is that the analog sides do not satisfy. When I A-B non-ATMOS surround between my exaSound (ESS9038PRO plus linear power supply etc) vs. the Arcam with its Dirac and ESS9026Pro, I prefer the exaSound. I can get the same songs playing as simple FLAC at the same time. And when I blind test on the progeny, flipping back and forth, they too prefer the exaSound.

 

Only thing is, looks like I could get five or six Audient Orias for the price of one ISP EVO. Though that would not help me if I could not listen to my MKA ATMOS files or watch my MKV ATMOS films…

 

Screenshot 2024-05-08 201830.png

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On 1/29/2024 at 6:49 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Hi @maxijazz Thanks for bringing up this option. It raises some questions I've been thinking about over the weekend. 

 

If using Genelec speakers with built-in DACs and DSP, where does the volume control take place and how does the user control it? For example, if I'm streaming from JRiver to a HAPI to Genelec speakers. Without an Anubis, the user would have to be physically turning the knob of the HAPI for volume control. 

 

Also, if volume control is done prior to DSP inside the speakers, is this a big no-no? In my head this is an issue, but I honesty don't know if it plays out this way. 

 

I've been thinking of putting a DSP box between my Anubis and HAPI, but my hesitation is that the Anubis does volume control and this will reduce resolution for the DSP filters. 

 

@DigiPete do you have experience with Genelec DSP?


Yes Chris, I have intimate knowledge and experience with Genelecs DSP called GLM (Genelec Loudspeaker Manager).
I have been running my 5.1 Genelec SAM system since 2011, taking full advantage of GLM as well as all the other advantages of a fully integrated active monitor build on science and not WAF or audiophile superstitions.

All Genelec SAMs (Smart Active Monitors) have kept every operations in the digital domain if at  all possible.
Each monitor does this internally, allowing over 80 monitors and subs in the system.
X-over, room compensation, time of flight & volume are all done inside each unit, but digitally controlled from a central GLM device via RJ45 cables.

Volume is on a physical wired volume knob (if you like the tactile feel) or a wireless remote.
You may be turning a nice chunky knob, but the volume is managed digitally inside each unit.

Calibration is as easy as it comes: 
1) Set up the measuring mic
2) Push a button
3) Move mic repeat 2) for as many points you desire
4) Save calibration in a named file 

Sub integration comes with the advantage of having the X-over in DSP, so the GLM system will recommend trying a diffrent frequency if needed and re-run the phase integration test for that frequency.

The Grade report (Genelec Room Acoustic Data Evaluation) is a late addition with results, interpretations  and recommendations for optimising your room and rig. See also Jasco's (Acoustic Insider) take on the Grade.

Fun facts
"The Ones" series sports the best co-axial drives ever made
All home relevant monitors (up to 118 dB SPL @ 1m) are cast in thin stiff audio lense shaped aluminium.
Any AES/EBU or coax S/PDIF output will do.
SAMs will actually digitise balanced analogue inputs if you insist.
My 20m monitor cables cost €20, but ther are 100% lossless.
You can save as many calibrations and sound profiles (non-linear freq response) as you like.
Last but least: Genelec gives you ALL the measurements and graphs because they have nothing to hide.

In short:
Genelc SAM systems deliver predictably better sound for less money.



PS. I hear the complaint: not enough filters to be SOTA, well perhaps you should start with a healthier topology and better engineered speakers . . . 

PPS. I hear the other complaint: Its too expensive. Well, its High End on a budget. One that adapts to your room.
        Example: Entry full range co-axial system: €6000
        This includes 7 amplifiers, 7 DACs, room correction, sub integration, Grade Report, calibration, volume knob & all cables.
        2 x 8331, 7350 sub, GLM controller, volume knob and ass AES/EBU cables + RJ45
        104dB SPL, 25 (± 3 dB) - 20kz (± 1.5 dB) each unit measured anechoic


/END RANT/

Promise Pegasus2 R6 12TB -> Thunderbolt2 ->
MacBook Pro M1 Pro -> Motu 8D -> AES/EBU ->
Main: Genelec 5 x 8260A + 2 x 8250 + 2 x 8330 + 7271A sub
Boat: Genelec 8010 + 5040 sub

Hifiman Sundara, Sennheiser PXC 550 II, Smyth Realiser A16
Blog: “Confessions of a DigiPhile”

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5 hours ago, Carousel said:

@Magnificat

What I like about the StormAudio ISP EVO (spec below) is that it is all digital. Now, I have not tried a receiver from the likes of Trinnov or StormAudio. But all my experience so far with receivers like those of Marantz-Denon or Arcam is that the analog sides do not satisfy. 

The EVO was designed for Dante and similar protocols, but it does not simplify your setup.  

 

It looks like you may need to go to the level of Trinnov and Storm Audio to meet your stereo requirements.  I know of a number of people who have sold their expensive stereo systems because they were happy with their Marantz, Arcam and JBL AV processors.  But they are not good enough for you. 

 

Regarding the Audient Oria, I suspect (have entry level Audient stereo audio interface) that it will fall below the Marantz, Arcam, JBL level because of the analogue section. 

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5 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

What we need is for "Marantz-Denon or Arcam" to go Dante/Ravenna and ditch all the analog parts.  The ZMan would be a good way to start.

What about the Arvus H1-D?

https://shop.arvus.com/view-product/h1-d

 

The market for Dante/Raveena for Home Theatre is far too small for the likes of Marantz, Denon and Arcam to be interested in.  Plus decent out-of-the box Dante enabled speakers are limited. Yes, there are Dante adaptors which can be used, but complicates things.

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