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Article: HARMAN Acquires Roon


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1 hour ago, LarryMagoo said:

ARC is the reason for a network connection.  Roon never required a network connection before ARC.   I got suspended for 90 days from their forum when I made an accusation about having ARC just to gather data on people’s listening habits and the contents of their album collection.    Data has always had a market….but then I got ARC working and appreciated having my entire collection available to me on the road…

Roon had to connect to the mothership to verify your license long before ARC. This was done over the network. 

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4 hours ago, botrytis said:

Tidal pays 1.2 cents per stream and that is the highest average. meaning artists who get more streams get a little more. Streaming lines the pockets of the labels, not the artists.

They all pay the same. It's just that Tidal listeners don't stream as much music. It's all percentage based. 

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When conglomerates are involved, all bets are off. It’s really impossible to know much, partially because all of this can change in a moment based on the needs of a company like Samsung.

 

Think of the companies Apple has purchased and what it did with the products. It’s all over the board. Some are still around and successful while others were killed. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I hate the fact that streaming services and Roon collect this data. I’ve often thought about my activities being tracked while selecting music to play. Not a fun headspace to be in when trying to relax. 
 

Plus, it’s about so much more than Roon knowing what someone listens to. All the data about an entire library, times one listens, network scans, zone names, customer name and account info, etc… can all be combined with other data from other sources. 
 

I totally love playing my immersive Blu-ray rips in JRiver. It feels like I’m off the grid :~)

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13 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

My new Volvo has an infotainment system by Google and I hate it because I know for a fact that they track everything they can. It's the exact reason Porsche didn't have Android interoperability in their cars for so long. Google required privacy invading stipulations with it that Porsche execs didn't like. Personally, I would prefer a vehicle with no built in infotainment, but rather just let me plug in my phone, whether Apple or Android. It's better in every way I can think of anyway, and would release the auto manufacturer from either developing their own system, or getting it from someone else.

 

I want to know how Kia knows people are having sex in their cars though.

Technology is a huge reason for people buying new cars. Even if the tech sucks, coming out with version 2 of sucky tech is better than version 1, and people want it. 
 

Allowing customers to use the car’s screen as a display only, for CarPlay or Android Auto, is a far better experience but doesn’t move as many units for the auto manufacturers. 
 

Starting to think Neil Young had it right with his 1959 LincVolt Continental. No tracking, electric, sweetness. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LincVolt

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

The first Roon / Harman product has been announced. 

 

Press Release:

 

 

Roon Labs and Harman International Unveil Groundbreaking Nucleus Titan at CES

2024

Nucleus Titan melds cutting-edge performance with breathtaking aesthetics, delivering

the ultimate platform for Roon music software.

 

LAS VEGAS, NEVADA (January 9th, 2024) -

Roon , the world's most innovative listening experience for music lovers, in conjunction with Harman International , is thrilled to announce the arrival of Nucleus Titan - its next-generation high-performance Nucleus server at CES 2024.

 

Nucleus Titan maximizes recent advances in manufacturing processes and hardware customization to deliver an unparalleled premium device specifically intended for Roon's library management, music exploration, and multi-room music player software.

Nucleus, long recognized as the first choice of those seeking the best possible server/streamer

option for Roon, takes a giant step forward with Nucleus Titan. Titan supersedes the Nucleus

Plus with updated hardware and performance - providing effortless set-up and worry-free

operation paired with design aesthetics that demand admiration.

 

Nucleus Titan is Roon's new flagship server. It fuses precision manufacturing and hardware

customization with unsurpassed design. Customers choose from three customizable shell

material options – metal, stone, and wood – to create a one-of-a-kind server/streamer statement

piece perfectly matched to their tastes and listening space. Nucleus Titan, starting at $3,699.00

(U.S.), is the only choice for those seeking a premium Roon server that promises a superlative

Roon experience paired with breathtaking visual appeal.

 

● Nucleus Titan features include:

 

○ Precision-machined billet aluminum enclosure crafted from a solid block of

premium metal.

 

○ Stunning aesthetics, designed for display and admiration.

 

○ Available in three elemental shell finishes: metal, stone* (composite), and wood.

 

○ Elegant self-cooling design with silent, fan-less operation.

 

○ Customizable internal solid state storage: 2, 4, or 8 TB options.

 

○ Upgraded connectivity: two USB-C, two USB-A, and two audio-only HDMI ports.

 

○ Accommodates the most voluminous music libraries and multi-zone audio

configurations.

 

○ Exterior design echoes Roon's music discovery features and the eclectic nature of

music collections.

 

○ Nucleus Titan is the only premium server/streamer designed specifically for Roon

by the team that created Roon.

 

“Nucleus Titan continues our long-standing goal of providing customers with Roon server

options that correspond with their specific needs and desires. CPU and SSD technology has

evolved significantly since we first released Nucleus, and we’ve taken advantage of those

innovations. With Titan, we’ve created a high-performance device that fuses precision

manufacturing with aesthetics that evoke the interwoven nature of our music collections and

Roon’s finesse for music exploration. We’re very excited with the results and our ability to provide our customers with the ultimate Roon software platform”

 

said Enno Vandermeer, Roon

CEO & Co-Founder.

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1 minute ago, firedog said:

 

Basically, you are paying 1500-$2000 for the aesthetics. Not putting that down, just giving perspective. That's the only unique/added feature over what you can get elsewhere by other PC vendors.

If it's like the current Nucleus, it will also offer integration with Crestron and possibly other limited features not available on DIY installs. If that's worth it or not is up to each person obviously. 

 

Would be good to get the specs on the new internal parts. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
9 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Thank you @firedog for sharing that information.
 

Is it too critical to assume that these founders can change their mind about privacy again when they have gained reasonably enough new subscribers to harvest data ?

I need to admit that the ROON network utilization had been my biggest concern, and I am not sure if any audio player software accessing metadata pools will respect our interest in user privacy at all. I may assume that connected hardware does that, too ...

To be fair, I may imagine to handle the ROON comfort for my hifi system as an investment, which means I may pay for a lifetime license under the premise that I am allowed to use the software without any internet access plus access and store the necessary library metadata on my NAS or another unit in my network ( a PiHole server, for example ?).
Its finally an privacy issue, and for more than 800 Euros I may feel damm right to demand such a solution.

 

EDIT: I did run Roon for almost 2 years and made the upgrade from 1.8 and then abandoned it.

 

Hi Tom, I think the key word is CONTINUOUS, in Roon statement "This means our users can once again enjoy their music collections without the need for continuous internet connectivity." 

 

Internet connectivity is still a requirement. What it's used for other than subscription verification isn't known by me. The cynical side of me thinks the app just stores everything to upload once per 30 days (or whatever the requirement for connectivity now is) rather than a free flowing consistent stream of data collection. I could be very wrong though and hope I am. 

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2 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

I understand your concern, however, your input it isn't helpul to allow this thread the direction it aimed. I would love to see a hread or a subforum soley dealing with practical privacy issues instead sharing it continously in threads only touching privacy by far. Chris or Audiodoc could , for example, explain at such a place how they PiHoled their networked privacy ;-)

Hi Tom, I will start a thread about privacy and our hobby, so we can at least attempt to link the two :~)

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  • 1 month later...

I was thinking more about this acquisition of Roon by Harman / Samsung today. I don't think you can underestimate how much this is about data, and how potentially detrimental this is to other companies. Samsung has nearly unlimited resources, especially when compared to other HiFi companies. The acquisition of Roon now enables them to estimate / know how how many devices other manufacturers are selling, have sold, market demand for specific products or types of products, how the products work, how customers interact with these products through their audio player (Roon), what music and types of music are played, the physical location of all Roon users, income bracket of users, and the list goes on. 

 

If you ran a company that partnered with Roon, would you be happy that a competitor (Samsung / Harman) now has all this information about your customers and products, and can reach your customers directly? 

 

I still like Roon, and the people who started the company. In fact I've been using it quite a bit the last couple weeks. I just have serious questions about this acquisition. 

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22 minutes ago, firedog said:

You are correct.

I don't like big corps having my info - especially for free.  But unless you want to be disconnected from the Internet, you can't prevent it.

I see Roon as so valuable to me personally - and that's dependent on internet access - that I'm willing to give up the information.

It was the same before with LMS - it's nothing new.

 

Maybe part of the solution would be for Roon to sell a version for the local library  only, and no info going back to them - but I doubt they'd ever do that. 

 

The better big term solution would be for companies to eitther; a) pay users in order to collect info on them; or b) a user option to opt out of info and uploading it to the Net or at least a choice of what info is uploaded.

In the case of Roon, say I could allow my music listening habits to be uploaded, but not info about my devices, home network setup, etc. I should also be able to tell companies they can't sell or pass on my info without my express permission.

This could be done. But unless legislation mandates it, companies will never do it. 

This specific case goes much further, in my view, than a company having your information. Samsung now has tons of information about its competitors products and can directly communicate with its competitors customers. I don’t see how this is good for anyone in the long run. 

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