neiltingley Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Even the UK distributor for HM does seem to know the answer to this, but where can I buy and download Harmonia Mundi 24bit ? HM is my favourite independent music label and I can't wait get Herreweghe's Bach in 24bit. (And a huge stack of other baroque and early music recordings). Thankfully I can get BIS recordings from eclassical. Right now I think its the best of the hires sites for choice and quality. BIS record some of my favourite artists too so I'm relatively happy. HDtracks have a very few of their discs. I was emailing LSO live label manager attempting to persuade him to talk to eclassical or hdtracks. Hopefully something will come of it soon. Neil[br]----------------------------------------------[br]Guarani Momento - QB9 - CX-7E - Logos Link to comment
ted_b Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 working on any (for HDTracks). OR, you could buy the SACD and play it through an SACD player, using my proposed HDMI de-embedder solution into your DAC. That way you get either 24/88 or 24/176 (depending on the DSD-to-PCM decoder of the player) 2 channel, and if the disc came with surround you get that as a bonus (spinning disc only, no way to rip). The Bach Herreweghe Christmas Cantatas has a multichannel layer, as do the majority of HM SACD's.. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Manelus Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I concur about BIS at eClassical, outstanding sound an a very good catalog on BIS “studio Masters”. Regarding Harmonia Mundi you can buy some of them (limited catalog so far) at Qobuz (French). 24bit 44.1kHz, the real sample rate they are recorded. The ones you can get at HDTracks or at iTrax are DSD conversions (from SACDs). That is PCM to DSD and then DSD to PCM getting “fake” 88.2 and 96kHz. Hope it helps Digital Sources: Linn Klimax DS and Audio Note CDT3 + Audio Note DAC 4.1x balanced.[br] Analog Source: Clearaudio Innovation + SME V tonearm + Benz Micro LP S cartridge.[br]Plinius Tautoro Preamp. - Plinius SA Reference Amp.[br]Dynaudio Sapphire Speakers + Velodyne Ultra Subwoofer.[br]Powercords: Elrod Statement Gold.[br]Interconnects and Speaker cables: Kubala-Sosna Elation.[br]Dedicated Power lines for HiFi Stuff. Link to comment
ted_b Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 find that HM only records in 24/44.1? If so I concur; go for the native rate stuff. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
BMichel Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I checked iTrax and HDTracks and all of the available hires downloads from Harmonia Mundi are native DSD. Not sure where the above information came from. Link to comment
Manelus Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Harmonia Mundi are PCM native recordings (24-44.1) converted to DSD for SACD releases. iTrax and HDtracks are converting again DSD to PCM. Qobuz releases are native PCM 24-44.1 (no conversion). Digital Sources: Linn Klimax DS and Audio Note CDT3 + Audio Note DAC 4.1x balanced.[br] Analog Source: Clearaudio Innovation + SME V tonearm + Benz Micro LP S cartridge.[br]Plinius Tautoro Preamp. - Plinius SA Reference Amp.[br]Dynaudio Sapphire Speakers + Velodyne Ultra Subwoofer.[br]Powercords: Elrod Statement Gold.[br]Interconnects and Speaker cables: Kubala-Sosna Elation.[br]Dedicated Power lines for HiFi Stuff. Link to comment
BMichel Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Part of what you are saying is true and the rest might be confusing to those reading the post. Yes, the only way to get from DSD to Hirez PCM is to do a DSD to PCM conversion; however, the Harmonia Mundi recordings available in Hirez on HDTracks are native DSD. There is no upsampling involved. Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 1) HDtracks does not offer "native DSD" downloads, they offer PCM downloads, and in the case of SACD rips, they are DSD to PCM downconverts. In many cases very good, especially if the source recording was DSD. 2) HM records in PCM (we know that) and we are pretty sure it's 24/44.1k. Regardless of sample rate, a PCM to DSD to PCM offering is clearly inferior (or less valuable) to the original PCM native offering. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
BMichel Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hello again, There aren't a lot of Harmonia Mundi HiRez downloads on HDTracks, but I can say with a certain amount authority that the downloads offered are native DSD. Future offerings (coming soon)will also be native DSD or 88.2. Not sure about the source of the confusion above. Brad Michel Harmonia Mundi USA Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 DSD! They are none! Your HM tracks are offered as either redbook (aka 16/44.1) or 24/88.2k PCM. If you are trying to say that the SOURCE of these 24/88 downloads are native DSD then that is another thing, and worth pursuing...but most reports are that HM records in PCM. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Al Moulton Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I told Brad (the main recording and mastering engineer for Harmonia Mundi) that I have never posted to a forum because it's a "no win", but here I go for (hopefully) my 1 and only time: If ted_b had bothered to look to see who Brad Michel is (which can be done on any (non-French) HM release in recent years), he'd see that he is the one actual source of information related to HM recordings as he, well, made them...Oh, and won 1 or 2 Grammy's for his work if I remember correctly. I have had the great priviledge to help him on several occasions, and he's a truly humble expert in his field, and really cares about, not only the musical integrity of each release, but also about the sonic results as well. Living close to our store, I've been lucky enough to get to hear just how good his work can sound when close to the master. But I must comment again on ted_b's brave ignorance on these matters, which does the world a disservice. He boldly claims that "HM records in PCM (we know that)". Well, factually he's wrong, and again we should be reminded that the forums are frequently as much responsible for misinformation as for informing a better world. To also compound the problem through his misunderstanding of the term "native", and to do so with exclamation marks following various remarks is insulting to those who actually make their livelyhood in the business. Native refers to the origin. For Brad (and others in the field), the native format is the original format of the recording and/ or master. Of course you download a PCM file from HD Tracks- we all know this. He was kind enough to try and set the record straight for you and others that, although the download is PCM, the native format is DSD (even though ted_b "knows" that it is not). Just goes to show you that 1100 posts does not an expert make. It's why most experts stay off the forums. Al Al Moulton[br]Goodwin\'s High End Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I was just trying to get everyone on the same page, and had no idea who Brad or anyone was. When someone says "the HDtracks downloads are native DSD" I took it as written, and responded..i.e there are definitely services being established that download native DSD diff files(Blue Coast, 2L, etc). HDtracks is not yet one of them. So I remarked about it. Secondly, I didn't establish the statement that HM records in 24/44 I simply reiterated it (a debate that has included Mark Waldrep, etc...it's not the first time this 24/44 or less-than-DSD has been brought up!!!). Brad should have simply said who he was, and something like, "ah no, I recorded them, they are DSD!" and this semantic internet confusion would have been cleared up long long ago. So...sorry for the confusion. But I would ask that experts indeed show themselves and PLEASE speak up. It would make this hobby a lot easier. The newly revealed facts: HM records their stuff in native DSD, and the HDtracks 24/88 downloads are therefore a clean simple DSD-PCM downconvert, and likely the best PCM approximation of HM out there, short of dff files. By the way Al, my 1100 posts should have nothing to do with this obvious miscommunication on all sides; my reputation is not for hyperbole or inaccurate "brave ignorance". I wouldn't have lasted this long. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Jud Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Brad Michel writes: Future offerings (coming soon).... Wondering whether we might hope to see some Jordi Savall pieces? One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Russell_L Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Sooooo....given the discussion here, it seems we can safely assume that Harmonia Mundi's 24/88.2 files on HDtracks (what few there are) are sourced from "native" DSD recordings. But what about HM's "Studio Masters" files on Qobuz? I haven't looked at all of them, but the ones I've checked are all 24/44.1. Can we assume that this is the "native" bit depth/sampling rate for those recordings? (I'd hate to think that they've been downconverted from DSD to such a low sampling rate.) Russell MacBook Pro 2021 16” (M1 Pro, 16MB RAM, macOS Ventura) > Audirvana Origin > Pangea Audio USB-AG > Sony TA-ZH1ES > Nordost Heimdall 2 > Audeze LCD-3 Link to comment
Manelus Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 This is an HM download I purchased from HDTracks. Despite "professionals" say it is not native DSD converted to 88.2. Original source of the SACD was 44.1. So HDTracks = wrong, Qobuz = right Digital Sources: Linn Klimax DS and Audio Note CDT3 + Audio Note DAC 4.1x balanced.[br] Analog Source: Clearaudio Innovation + SME V tonearm + Benz Micro LP S cartridge.[br]Plinius Tautoro Preamp. - Plinius SA Reference Amp.[br]Dynaudio Sapphire Speakers + Velodyne Ultra Subwoofer.[br]Powercords: Elrod Statement Gold.[br]Interconnects and Speaker cables: Kubala-Sosna Elation.[br]Dedicated Power lines for HiFi Stuff. Link to comment
Boris75 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The Harmonia Mundi recordings made by Teldex Studios in Berlin, including René Jacob's recent Matthaus-Passion, seem to be recorded in 24/96 rather than DSD. Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Well, isn't this another fine "fuster cluck." But this does sound like a very helpful thing to get sorted out (amicably, hopefully) and it looks like the people who can sort this out are right here. That's great. Link to comment
Sam Lord Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Wondering whether we might hope to see some Jordi Savall pieces? +123456789 Jordi Savall has made not one but many of my favorite recordings, the man is a treasure to art. Please folks, if Harmonia Mundi France still distributes Alia Vox and earlier Savall work, work to make them available for hi-resolution download. If you haven't heard some of his music, you are missing a major force in classical music. And Harmonia Mundi around the world is a priceless source of music. I have dozens of their CDs and SACDs, and have *never* heard an HM release without great recording quality. Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position. Link to comment
wisnon Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have a few HM SACDs. I will go check the booklets to trace down the provenance and origin of the recordings. Probably a Sonoma workstation... Link to comment
Boris75 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 +123456789 Jordi Savall has made not one but many of my favorite recordings, the man is a treasure to art. Please folks, if Harmonia Mundi France still distributes Alia Vox and earlier Savall work, work to make them available for hi-resolution download. I too much admire Jordi Savall. Many of his recordings are available in high-res from Qobuz in PCM. I don't know if this is native PCM or converted from DSD as I buy SACDs rather than downloads to get the usually very intereting liner notes on paper. Link to comment
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