ordered a Lindemann USB DAC 24/192

[Oystein]

I have no specific remarks or question .. just sharing my experiences in my quest for a suitable (within budget) streaming audio front end.

 

 

I am almost there ...

I have the iPad with apps, DAC (on it's way) but still need to buy the parts for the HTPC and putting it together.

 

To get the DAC with the functionality I wanted was not straight-forward and something I had to discuss with Lindemann in Germany.

 

The main problem is that the USB input is Audio Class 2 which needs drivers to operate under Windows 7.

I will build my system with 64 bit Windows but Lindemann only has drivers ready for 32 bit.

The 64 bit drivers are under development and expected May/June.

 

After some discussion they told me they could deliver the DAC with USB Audio Class 1 which do not need drivers for Windows.

It was just a matter of changing the USB input board.

 

I questioned myself if I should go Toslink in the meantime untill the drivers are ready (optical out is from onboard sound = high jitter) or go for USB Audio Class 1 and buy a USB/SPDIF converter when I get to higher resolution downloads in the future.

Then it hit me ... why not have the DAC with Class 1 input to be used now and have a Class 2 input board extra to change when I want to use higher then 24/96 in the future ?

 

This is how the DAC will be deliverd - with extra Class 2 board.

 

The HTPC will be i5-2400 (socket 1155), 8 Gb RAM, 60 Gb SSD, everything onboard and have an extra PCIe add in card with USB to seperate any USB load from the onboard controller to the audio stream.

 

Software is Win 7 x64 with J.River and run apps on the iPad for controlling J. River (DLNA) and remote desktop for the HTPC.

 

Music will be on a 2 bay = 4 TB NAS over wired LAN.

 

When the system is running in a couple of weeks I will update this post with my observations compared to my current hardware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[noogle1]

Interested in why you want to run Windows 7 in 64-bit mode rather than 32-bit mode? Do you need more than 4GB address space?

 

[slingshot]

I just bought a Lindemann 825 cd player/ DAC which ironically is being delivered today. I think I will have the same problem. I have Windows 7 with 64 bits on a Rain Recordings Ion computer. Never thought of that. That is a big problem with computer audio; not turn key and so many variables to consider.

 

[Oystein]

The reason for 8Gb RAM is that my current (dated) PC will be obsolete soon and will be able to use the HTPC as normal PC too.

 

Just a matter of future requirements. For music it is probably overkill ;-)

 

@slingshot

If your USB input is the same you might get a class 1 board too for the time being

 

[noogle1]

OK, I understand the "future-proofing" concerns. Just think you could save a world of driver pain by going for a 32-bit/4GB system. Try starting up Win 7's Resource Monitor (part of Task Manager/Performance Monitor) and see how much physical memory you are actually using. I guess it would be the same story for the secondary USB card - audio bandwidths are a fraction of USB's.

 

[Audio_ELF]

Actually the dedicated USB card for audio only makes a lot of sense! Eliminates any possibility of keyboard, mouse, etc. interrupts causing glitches in audio. Cost is probably only a few quid / dollars.

 

Eloise

 

PS. For others in same situation, it would (to me anyway) make more sence to get a Class 2 USB device and use optical until the drivers were available than to be adding a USB to SPDIF converter in the long run.

 

[Oystein]

@Eloise:

The price for the extra class 2 board was the same price as a good optical cable. And now I do not have to bother about a high-jitter optical out from the onboard codec.

I am sure the async class 1 board which is installed in the DAC will sound much better.

 

The USB cards costs only 20 Euro ... which is very little money for a tweak to (possibly) improve sound.

 

It also give me freedom to experiment in another way.

The USB card has 2 USB outputs. As I will never use both here I will cut the 5V power pin in the connector at one of the outputs.

The DAC will probably not need it and this way I can keep the noisy power away from the USB cable.

Maybe it will not matter but hey .. it is worth to try and costs nothing extra.

 

If the 5V is needed for the DAC (which I think is unlikely) I still can use the other USB output ;-)

 

[Oystein]

Today I received the new DAC from Lindemann :-)

 

Included was a USB Class 1 board - the unit is factory installed with USB Class 2.

 

The enclosed power supply is a wall wart (SMPS) type.

As most people know the better and cleaner the power the better the sound.

In this respect the wall wart does not have the best reputation so I will do an alternative power source.

 

I have some 12V wall warts laying around so I will use on of them to supply a dedicated low noise regulator from Teddy Pardo - the superteddyreg ....

This is a small PCB which can be mounted in a very small enclosure with DC plug in (12V) and DC plug out (5V).

I will make an extra filter at the 12V in by a series resitor and big capacitors behind it. Something like 3.9 ohm + 2x 2200 uF.

 

To be continued ...

 

[slingshot]

Probably my best bet is to wait for the new drivers and use another computer for the music server rather than installing Windows 7, 32 bit unless someone has a better idea.

 

Right now I am using my $400 HP laptop and a $70 U.S.B. 12 foot cable and an Iomega external HD with the Lindemann 825 and the sound is sensational.

 

I'm looking into a battery pack from Red Wine Audio to drive it as it also operates on 12 volts like the DAC.

 

Looks like I have to edit my system.

 

 

[Oystein]

On iMac / iBook etc .. you can use it without any drivers.

Or any 32 bit Windows ...

 

Lindemann advised me to use the WireWorld Starlight USB cable for best results.

 

I already have bought this one in 2 meter (= 6 foot) as it was a demo cable for 40 Euro :-)

 

I am not sure if it will benefit for your DAC input in your CD player but if you ever get the chance to try ...

 

[slingshot]

I'll pick one up.

 

If you were in the Boston area, you could come over to hear it; I guess you are in Europe, if you are using Euros.

 

Originally I was going to buy the Lindemann DAC then I got an incredible deal on the 825, about half of the U.S. price and the price one would pay in Germany without the V.A.T.

 

Lindemann is known for their SACD players which Mr. Lindemann omitted from this model as he said the Redbook layer of the SACD sounds better on the 825 then the SACD layer on a SACD player.

 

I listened to a Rolling Stone SACD song, Gimme Shelter which I think was released in 1968 and I heard bass in the drums and guitars that I never heard before. I have been missing this for 43 years! Much better than my SACD players so I think Mr. Lindemann is correct.

 

[Oystein]

You are correct, I live in Europe - The Netherlands

 

I know his players have a good reputation so I really hope these designs from the DAC to analog stages has trickled down into the USB DAC.

This togheter with support over USB for 24/192 and a list price of 690 Euro I could not resist.

 

There is no distributor for Lindemann here so I could order at Lindemann direct and did not have to pay any shipping costs.

 

[GN]

Dear All

My first reply in computer audiophile. Hope it will not be the last.

Regarding Lindemann, I believe that the existing USB DAC is not derived from the good and costly CD player. I believe Lindemann is developing a new USBDAC based on the 825 CD player and that it will be available soon. I also believe that the price level for this will be 2-3000 Euro in Europe and that it probably will be a good one.

 

Anyone that knows more?

 

I am in the market for a Mac Mini + an excellent USB DAC. May the new one be worth waiting for?

 

Spec for the CD player:

Intelligent signal conditioning and input data standardization

Digital data arriving at the inputs is processed before it is passed to the actual D/A converter. In “auto mode” the jitter performance of data is standardized (

[Oystein]

@GN

It is nice to know Lindemann is also developping a more sophisticated DAC based on the DA converter of the 825 CD player.

But to copy/past all info from the 825 does not tell much about the new DAC.

Reading the specs of the current USB DAC already have a lot design features from the 825 although the final implementation can be executed different (simpler/cheaper ?)

 

Anyway … to follow up on my previous post …

Just finished reading the article of the new Alpha USB/SPDIF converter I realised the USB receiver in the Linemann USB DAC might also use the 5V from the USB header.

Looking further in this matter I found the Aqvox USB power supply which makes a clean 5V and disconnects the original 5V from the noisy PC.

 

This concept looks like a good solution.

In any PC there is 12Vdc available which can be used to power a 7805 of LM317 voltage regulator and make a simple but effective clean power source.

I can make an adapter USB in/out similar to the Aqvox implemetation and use a PCI bracket to mount the voltage regulator and power connector.

 

There are so many ways tweaking hardware and power supplies to have all the quipment operate in the best possbile enviroment.

Luckily I am fimiliar with electronics so lots can be done with little budget :-)

 

Maybe it is time to start a “ tweakiwiki “ with al sorts of simple tweaks that most people overlook or have forgotten.

 

Reading many replies on different subject I realize many readers are familiar with electronics too.

 

 

[GN]

Sorry!

I just hoped somebody else knew more than me about the expected DAC.

 

[Oystein]

A DAC based on the 825 D/A stage can be interesting :-)

 

I have not read anything about a second DAC in their productline and you bet I Googled a lot on Lindemann ...

 

[Oystein]

This weekend I installed and setup my HTPC and DAC in my stereo set.

 

It was immediately appearent that I heard more information in the music compared with my modified CD player.

The CD was a NAD 524 with Tentlabs clock and Burson Op-Amps. And this was already a big step forward compared to the unmodified player.

 

At first the sound sounded very thin but within a few hours the balance shifted to a more robust sound.

It will probably take some time before all new equipment reached their full potential but for now I am already happy with the outcome.

 

Playing around with J.River direct (via remote desktop on the iPad) was fun and instant reactions on my commands followed.

Swithing between albums went very smooth.

 

The only issue I had is when skipping to the next or previous track I hear a small tick at the begin of a new track .. like a static discharge ... any idea ???

 

I also used PlugPlayer for a more simple interface but the response is much slower and skipping tracks gives a silence in between of approx. 2 seconds.

Because of the silence the static clicks were even more appearent.

 

I am still in the “learning mode” to get most out of the software but the first impressions are very positive.

 

 

[slingshot]

Any info on the 64 bit drivers? It is almost June, I see nothing on the website.

 

[vigotone]

I just ordered mine from Mike Morrow at Morrow Audio (along with a used pair of MA2 interconnects). This will be my first DAC, and I am very excited to hear the results.

 

Now I just have to figure out which USB cable to get! Wireworld Starlight? Audioquest Forest?

 

[Oystein]

@slingshot:

 

I have not heard anything yet myself ... I would be informed as soon as the drivers are available.

At this moment I am still exploring and enjoying my cd-collection at 16/44.1 so I do not miss the class 2 drivers yet.

As I wrote earlier I have a seperate class 1 USB board that do not need external drivers :-)

 

@vigotone:

I am very satiesfied with the DAC and hopefully you enjoy it as much as I do.

Linemann recommends the Wireworld Starlight (red cable) which I bought becuase of this recommandation.

 

I happened to experiment yesterday with the computer hadware.

The noise power supply from the PC is something you want to keep away from the music signal.

I have a seperate USB card in a PCIe slot only used by the DAC.

The USB card has a molex power connector for the power (5V) on the USB terminals. That means the noisy power is also on the USB cable.

But if the USB receiver in the DAC uses the internal power you do not need the USB power which would be available trough the cable.

I disconnected the molex connector as a test and the DAC still works fine.

It even improved the sound ... probably the noise affects the USB signal so better run it wthout any power on the +5V pin.

The improvement is of the same magnitude of changing your generic power cord for a good (hifi) power cord.

 

Another cheap (free actually) tweak dat works !!!

 

[slingshot]

Well, June has come and gone and so has July. Is there any info on when the new frivers will be available?

 

[Oystein]

The driver is still a beta so no "official" driver yet

 

Luckily you can follow the developments on their website:

 

http://www.lindemann-audio.de/en/service/downloads/usb-drivers/

 

 

 

[Sanford Lavine]

Bought this in June. Would not work on Windows 7 64bit. Waited for drivers. I even emailed the manufacturer. His suggestion was to disable 192 and default to 96K using an internal switch. This is unacceptable for a device so $$$$. I returned the unit to my local dealer who is trying to resolve it. If it has not been resolved in a week or so I will get my money back.

 

Talk about clueless customer support!

 

Anyone encounter the same. I noticed the driver for the DAC has not been released yet either.

 

Happy listening to all

 

[Oystein]

 

I guess it will be the same driver needed for the DAC.

I have only one 24/192 album so no big loss yet only able to play 24/96.

 

I am happy with the DAC so no intention to skip it.

And I happen to be a patient guy ;-)

 

[panuba]

Hi, I purchased a Lindemann 825 last week and would like to share comments and opinions on its sound and USB card. I had the 32 bit card replaced by the new 64 bit one, but could not try that since Lindemann's drivers are not downloadable yet. I am based in downtown Boston, MA.