Pet Sounds in Atmos

[The Computer Audiophile]

A friend sent me this article. I’ll withhold my own comments about the article, and offer my comments about the mix when I have a little bit of time to listen. I see @bbosler didn’t hold back in the comment section. 
 

https://trackingangle.com/features/giles-martin-zooms-in-to-introduce-his-atmos-pet-sounds-mix-at-new-york-s-dolby-screening-room

 

 

[bbosler]

yea, I'm done with it, but such ignorance should not go unchallenged. I thought about referring him over here but his mind is made up so I don't want to confuse him any further with facts

[The Computer Audiophile]

I listened for a couple minutes tonight a liked what I heard on my 7.1.4 system. Much more listening ahead. 

[JoeWhip]

What utter ignorance on the part of Fremer and his protege. I am been in the Dolby theater in NYC twice. Guess what, the picture and sound sucked. I was at an Atmos event a couple of weeks ago in Philly at the Comcast Tech Center. This is a two story theater. The picture and sound sucked there too. Too much ambient light for a projector and the sound was spread out too far to be enjoyable. And too Fing loud. The event was attended by some members of our local audio group. I happened to be hosting the group later that week and played the same and similar content for then on my Atmos HT room. They all said wow, I get it now. No comparison to a properly set up realistically sized space. Great that Fremer has a 7.1 system. It ain’t Atmos. Atmos is a completely different experience. To make a comment like he did tells you all you need to know about his mindset. Neither of them has a clue to how Atmos works. Lord was that pathetic.

[bbosler]

1 hour ago, JoeWhip said:

What utter ignorance on the part of Fremer and his protege

 

agreed. I suggest you add arrogance to that 🙂

 

In any case. I commented one more time and I am done with it. It is amusing that Malachi opines that "stereo is perfectly fine and atmos might not last very long."

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, bbosler said:

It is amusing that Malachi opines that "stereo is perfectly fine and atmos might not last very long."

The installed base for Atmos, given that it goes from two channels to 16, using the same file, is, let's see if I can count the number of headphones, stereos, soundbars, home theaters, immersive systems, oh heck with it. But MQA, now that has staying power.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Finding the details confiming that Tidal on a phone can stream Atmos via AirPlay and that the receiving device can accept it as Atmos, is pretty tough. AirPlay 2 is "supposed" to handle Atmos. The Tidal app says it is streaming Atmos. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't. 

 

We should also keep in mind that binaural Atmos is a completely different animal from stereo Atmos downmixes. Many releases don't actually have binaural versions embedded into the Atmos mix. 

[JoeWhip]

47 minutes ago, bbosler said:

 

agreed. I suggest you add arrogance to that 🙂

 

In any case. I commented one more time and I am done with it. It is amusing that Malachi opines that "stereo is perfectly fine and atmos might not last very long."

Yes, arrogance too. I would comment as well but do not seem to be able. And no MF, listening to it on a 7.1 system misses the point entirely. It may sound good but not at the Atmos level. Considering the price of his set up, especially his TT, he should try getting a hold on maybe the Anthem 1140 and some inexpensive in ceiling speakers and give it a try. I think he would be shocked at what he heard through the Anthem.

[botrytis]

3 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

Yes, arrogance too. I would comment as well but do not seem to be able. And no MF, listening to it on a 7.1 system misses the point entirely. It may sound good but not at the Atmos level. Considering the price of his set up, especially his TT, he should try getting a hold on maybe the Anthem 1140 and some inexpensive in ceiling speakers and give it a try. I think he would be shocked at what he heard through the Anthem.

If you heard the Vinyl he thinks is great and then listen to it with him? The record sounded like a 3 year old rubbed it with sand and stones.. As I was walking out I heard someone say. 'OHH isn't it amazing what he is playing...' I shook my head and walked out. 

[JoeWhip]

I have never been a fan of that record anyway. I am often amazed by the reaction of some vinyl lovers at audio shows. I have heard some  bad sounding records heaped with praise. I don’t get it. Almost seems like a cult.

[JoeWhip]

I see some bozo brought in the joys of MQA. I just had to respond.

[firedog]

On 6/5/2023 at 2:45 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

A friend sent me this article. I’ll withhold my own comments about the article, and offer my comments about the mix when I have a little bit of time to listen. I see @bbosler didn’t hold back in the comment section. 
 

https://trackingangle.com/features/giles-martin-zooms-in-to-introduce-his-atmos-pet-sounds-mix-at-new-york-s-dolby-screening-room

 

 

I'm starting to lose respect for Fremer. He's making a habit of commenting on things he doesn't understand, and then digging in when the facts are pointed out to him in a reasonable way.

Neither he nor his young protege Malachi have a clue what they are talking about, and it seems pretty clear they've never actually heard a fully setup atmos system in a home.

Amazing how they insist this is irrelevant. 

[JoeWhip]

Yes, imagine Fremer’s response if someone posted yeah, vinyl sucks without ever hearing it, he would be apoplectic.

[Temporal_Dissident]

Not sure this will post to article comments. …

 

I stand by my frustration with your review. 

The essence of bruce bosler’s criticism is that you are presenting a “review” of a mix without making the effort necessary to experience it as it was intended to be presented. 

 

Shame on Dolby for having a listening event in this type of space. (Perhaps this was the easiest place for a marketing dept to host a PR event?) Disrespectful to the band and the music (and not great for the Dolby brand, either).

 

I’ve never listened to Atmos music in a large theater. I imagine that a large room exaggerates the spatial effect of Atmos in a way that would be very disorienting for music. It The gunshot percussion and “giant” Wilson brothers doesn’t sound appealing at all. 

 

Movie sound producers mix specifically for that environment. 

 

But that is NOT the type of room Martin remixed Pet Sounds in, or for, and that is not the type of room that Atmos music fans will listen in. 

 

Another terrible way to evaluate an Atmos mix? Headphones. A 7.1 system is not much better,…(because these aren’t Atmos-enabled systems). In my parlance, all are examples of “half broken” test or review conditions. 

 

If you want to review Atmos mixes, use an Atmos system in an appropriate space.

Is the “juice” of an immersive experience worth the “squeeze” of added investment and effort? That is every individual’s call, and that cost/benefit question also haunts almost every decision in our HiFi hobby. 

But neither of these questions constitutes an argument for reviewing Atmos mixes on non-Atmos systems or in movie theaters. 

There are other arguments embedding in the comments above about how “most people will experience Atmos” (ie - on a stereo system ) and how Atmos gets “abused” in mixes. Fine. Legitimate questions to discuss. 

 

But again, neither validates what you are implying, which is essentially that “you don’t really need to listen to an Atmos mix on an Atmos enabled system or in a proper room in order to write a professional review about it…” 

 

 In your comments, you write “I'd have to set up a full Atmos system and report what I heard. I'm just not going to do that.”

Then don’t do Atmos reviews! No problem. 

 

Unless you are willing to give the time and effort demanded to experience Atmos as intended, you should refrain from reviewing it. Continuing to opine on it while not making that effort seems like a backhanded way to be dismissive of the technology. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, Temporal_Dissident said:

Not sure this will post to article comments. …

 

I stand by my frustration with your review. 

The essence of bruce bosler’s criticism is that you are presenting a “review” of a mix without making the effort necessary to experience it as it was intended to be presented. 

 

Shame on Dolby for having a listening event in this type of space. (Perhaps this was the easiest place for a marketing dept to host a PR event?) Disrespectful to the band and the music (and not great for the Dolby brand, either).

 

I’ve never listened to Atmos music in a large theater. I imagine that a large room exaggerates the spatial effect of Atmos in a way that would be very disorienting for music. It The gunshot percussion and “giant” Wilson brothers doesn’t sound appealing at all. 

 

Movie sound producers mix specifically for that environment. 

 

But that is NOT the type of room Martin remixed Pet Sounds in, or for, and that is not the type of room that Atmos music fans will listen in. 

 

Another terrible way to evaluate an Atmos mix? Headphones. A 7.1 system is not much better,…(because these aren’t Atmos-enabled systems). In my parlance, all are examples of “half broken” test or review conditions. 

 

If you want to review Atmos mixes, use an Atmos system in an appropriate space.

Is the “juice” of an immersive experience worth the “squeeze” of added investment and effort? That is every individual’s call, and that cost/benefit question also haunts almost every decision in our HiFi hobby. 

But neither of these questions constitutes an argument for reviewing Atmos mixes on non-Atmos systems or in movie theaters. 

There are other arguments embedding in the comments above about how “most people will experience Atmos” (ie - on a stereo system ) and how Atmos gets “abused” in mixes. Fine. Legitimate questions to discuss. 

 

But again, neither validates what you are implying, which is essentially that “you don’t really need to listen to an Atmos mix on an Atmos enabled system or in a proper room in order to write a professional review about it…” 

 

 In your comments, you write “I'd have to set up a full Atmos system and report what I heard. I'm just not going to do that.”

Then don’t do Atmos reviews! No problem. 

 

Unless you are willing to give the time and effort demanded to experience Atmos as intended, you should refrain from reviewing it. Continuing to opine on it while not making that effort seems like a backhanded way to be dismissive of the technology. 

Perhaps I should review vinyl by having it converted to digital because I’m just not going to setup a full analog rig. 

[botrytis]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:05 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Perhaps I should review vinyl by having it converted to digital because I’m just not going to setup a full analog rig. 

Not worth the effort. Just use the mono-version of Pet Sounds. After all, it was originally a mono recording. 

[JoeWhip]

Yes, mono is the new Atmos.

[jcbenten]

Would 78 RPM transfer enough info to have Vinyl Atmos??

[JoeWhip]

As long as it is a lacquer.