The Who in 24/96

[dsnyder]

Hi Eloise,

 

Quote: I know there is the conveinience of immediate access but would people prefer a physical disk even if you have to wait a few days?

 

I've been giving this some thought lately, and I actually prefer to have the physical disc even if I have to wait. Looking back over my collection, I also have a few discs that now sell used on Amazon.com for over $100. I have no idea why (most are nothing special), but this made me realize that a physical disc at least has the possibility to appreciate in value.

 

Who knows what Kent Poon's Audiophile Jazz Vol. III will go for in 20 years, for example. This sort of appreciation is not likely for digital files. Of course, I buy music to listen to rather than to collect, but just a thought.

 

-- David

 

 

[jerico]

I notice on the HDTracks webpage for Tommy, the final track is now shown with a length of 7:08 (rather than 3:28). I've sent an email asking for a re-download of that track.

 

[Richiyaado]

Though I've downloaded a few things from HDTracks (and haven't had any download problems), the truth is that I can't tell the difference between 16/44.1 ripped from CDs, and 24/96 FLAC downloads. For instance, I borrowed a friend's "Raising Sand" CD, and ripped it. Later, I downloaded the 24/96 version from HDTracks. After much A/B listening, I simply couldn't distinguish one from the other (no matter whether listening on headphones or speakers). So, my inclination now is just to go on and rip CDs, and not worry about higher definition downloads. I know HDTracks (and others) offer "redbook" downloads (and maybe iTunes will one day), and that's great. But, for now, I'll probably just go back to purchasing CDs, and ripping them myself.

 

[Ultrarunner]

That's great news Jericho. They should email a link to a free download of the last cut to everyone who bought the incomplete version of Tommy. I wonder how many don't even know that they didn't receive the complete album.

 

Tim

 

[mwheelerk]

I got an email response from HD Tracks saying the track would be made available for download to all who purchased it previously by the end of the week.

 

[mwheelerk]

I just received an email from HD Tracks with a link for the corrected version of Tommy. I am downloading it at this minute.

 

[Erwin S]

How did this download saga turn out in the end?

 

I have this album (2LP) since more than 30 years! It was one of the first LP's I ever bought. I was almost forgotten I have this, until a few weeks ago, when Roger Daltrey performed parts of it during a local festival (his band is coming to North America later this year). Yummie! I loved it right back again. Made me take and play the old 2LP again. Something funny with mine: side A & D are one disc, side B & C the other one!

 

Now, I managed to find the 1996 CD. This had 24 tracks, last one is 7 minutes, so it's the same as the 24/96 from HD tracks, not the 4 minute version with the abrupt ending. I would like to buy the download.

 

Q1: Is the sound worth it? The DVD-A with 5.1 is a better investment or not?

 

Q2: HD-Tracks selling to European customers?

 

[ted_b]

since it has the nice 5.1 surround mix, but the download is wayy more convenient of course. In either case, the sound is a pretty good transfer. Me..I own the disc.

 

[Erwin S]

I want to add that the prices are:

 

SACD: £10 (new) 2004 (cheap!)

DVD-A: £16 (used) 2004

 

24/96: $23 (about the same as DVD-A then)

 

I still haven't got the DVD-ripper for Mac, so I'd have to put my head around that too if I go for the DVD-A...

 

[Erwin S]

HD-Tracks is open for euro's or not?

 

[Jud]

Something funny with mine: side A & D are one disc, side B & C the other one!

 

If you remember way back, they used to have turntables where you could stack LPs at the top of the spindle, and they would drop down onto the platter to play one at a time. Some multi-LP albums (including Tommy) were made so you could play sides A and B, then flip them over and play sides C and D. (If it was A&B on one disc, C&D on the other, you would have to get up and flip the LPs twice as many times.)

 

[wgscott]

... it sure sounded better that way.

 

[Erwin S]

Nevermind, HD-Tracks doesn't seem to bother that I am not in USA!

 

Easy peasy!

 

Will get back after listening with Amarra MINI!

 

Edit: the download does take forever. I have the Music Mac mini in an unwired position. I think it will need like 5 hours...

 

BTW: $23 comes to €16.50 thus helping the EU/USA trade balance a bit towards the USA... You're welcome, Uncle Sam!

 

[hafjell]

wgscott, I assume you're aware of the 24/96 Grateful Dead shows available legally and for free from a few bit torrent sites?

 

[wgscott]

That would be interesting. Can you point me in the general direction?

 

[hafjell]

Do you have a bit torrent client? If not I recommend uTorrent (micro-Torrent) although I'm sure there are others that work very well.

 

Once you've set that up, there are many sites to legally dl the Dead. These are my favorites and are run by the heavy hitters of the live GD world:

 

http://gdvault.com/tracker/torrents.php

http://shnflac.net/torrents.php?search=&category=13&project=0&active=1

http://bt.etree.org/index.php?cat=8

 

Talk soon.

 

[hafjell]

I just realized this was a distraction from the Who thread. wgscott, please pm me if you need any help.

 

[Erwin S]

Jud, I never saw such a device! But now I know, so thank you for clearing up that 30-year old enigma...

 

[Erwin S]

The download of Tommy 24/96 from HDtracks took six whole hours! That seems long, because the B&W downloads (I have a subscription) are in 24/48 and these albums take less than one hour.

 

This morning, I used XLD to translate the FLAC's into AIFF. I used Amarra MINI to listen to about half the album. That didn't work out very well. There were hickups, like in a scratched CD. I mean many. I never had this problem with the 24/48 B&W downloads nore with 16/44,1 CD rips (though I usualy don't bother using Amarra with 16/44,1). I normally use the "add tracks from iTunes" button and play from cache, just like now. When I play a track again, the hickups are gone. Very strange. I then tried the "add tracks from finder" button, but also with the same hickups.

 

SQ seems very good, though! The album sound is very "classical". But Roger Daltrey's life performance in Lokeren (BE) was very much "rock". The electric guitars and the drums are far less prominent on the album, the sound of the acoustic guitar is predominant. BTW, that doesn't mean Keith Moon's drumming on the album is not brilliant, he was simply the best drummer ever. Crazy, but a genius!

 

More later!

I will compare to the 2LP (on my other system though, but I can use my Oppo 83 SE-NE to play the CD there) and the CD-rip.

 

[Jud]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_changer

 

:-)

 

[Erwin S]

Okay, the votes of the jury are out! I have heard this album in four different shapes over the last month: I have the 2LP for decades, I got interested again because of the recent live rock performance, so I got me the CD (1996) and finally downloaded the 24/96.

 

Problem with using Amarra MINI for playback is that the 24/96 version is bothered by hickups. But only when I play from "cache". No problem with the 16/44.1 rip, not even with playback from cache. I wonder if this is a Amarra problem or a Mac problem? I never had this problem with 24/48 from SoS (B&W subscription). Anyways, I didn't play from cache after this. Just loaded the tracks from iTunes and set the Amarra equalizer to "rock". This fattens the guitars a bit...

 

To do a bit of comparison, I used the first track "Overture" (5:20) which is a bit of a sample of all the instruments used in the album. You got your orchestra, your choir, your acoustic guitar, your rock band, your singer and even a bit of keyboard. Perfect! Then I loaded this one track five times into Amarra:

 

1) 16/44.1

2) 24/96

3) 16/44.1

4) 24/96

5) 16/44.1

 

This is no blind test ofcourse, since I know which is playing when. But when the 24/96 is played, it is obvious that there's another level reached here. There's more detail, the notes are more rounded, the scale is larger (I don't feel the volume of the 24/96 is different from the 16/44.1). The 24/96 seems more realistic and more 3D (phantom image is more convincing). The two times when it went back to the 16/44.1 version were a bit sad, it went from brilliant to very good. And we all know better is the enemy of good.

 

I can only hope more of my favourite music will come avalabale in 24/96. This was my first actual purchase of 24/96. "Tommy" is in my top 10% of albums. But I have 2,800 albums, and there's at least a hundred that I fancy more... To be honoust, a 128 kbps version of one of my loved albums will be played infinete times more by me than a 24/96 album of music I don't care about!

 

And there's also the budget. CD's are really cheap now, even cheaper if you don't mind buying used, like me. The choice from 2 to 10 euros for a CD is vast out there, so you get a lot of music for the price of one 24/96 album. Though I have to say this 24/96 Tommy from HDtracks is affordable. The avarage 256/320 kbps album download costs €10, the same in 16/44,1 Flac or WAV is €13. I say €20 is about the limit for me. The $/€ rate of today helps with HDtracks prices!

 

I then played the 24/96 album in full. How nice when you concentrate on the lyrics! For the uninformed: Tommy is a conceptalbum and a rockopera about a boy named Tommy who is born deaf and blind, but becomes a "pinball wizard"... Sweet! I forgot to pay attention on the SQ, which is how it should be when one enjoys an opera!

 

 

 

[SeeHear]

Sorry, but I have to correct what you directed to the "uninformed."

Tommy was born normal; he was rendered deaf, dumb and blind by his mother and stepfather after he witnessed the murder of his dad.

 

[Erwin S]

How could I forget? You are correct! See what three decades did with my once sharp mind! So, Tommy was born while his father went missing in action. But when the father returns later, he finds that his wife took a new man. Now, the movie version indeed says that the stepfather killed the father, but I think it was the father who killed the stepfather? Tommy is then told that he has not heard or seen anything and not speak about it, which Tommy takes very litterally.

 

Rest of the story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(album)

 

I read it was banned by the BBC at first...

 

[SeeHear]

I don't think I ever listened that carefully to the original album. I was a kid when the movie was released - my best friend and I went to see it and I got in trouble when my parents found out ;^) I wore out the grooves on my movie soundtrack LP; never even occurred to me it wasn't the same story as the original album.

 

[tmornini]

I could care less about having a physical copy.

 

In fact, one of the reasons I got into computer audiophile was to get rid of my CDs! :-)