The Computer Audiophile Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, Roy Boy said: After streaming some Atmos music into my non-Atmos 7.1 system it has me thinking about future upgrade paths. In my current system I also stream ripped mch SACD from my NAS via Oppo 103d via HDMI to Integra 80.3 processor. It seems like the current generation of Atmos capable processors seem to dropping support for DSD decoding and/or 7.1 analog input. I do not see me going down the path as Chris did due to the complexity and my system needs to support 2 ch Hi-Res/ Atmos for music and Atmos for movies. Any insights into a way forward to support all these formats? Thanks Ah, you need a processor that does DSD and Atmos. Hmmm. I’m guessing you don’t want to convert DSD to 176.4 PCM? Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
jrobbins50 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I believe MakeMKV can backup the disc, unencrypted. Then you can use M2TS files in the DRP. I think. No, but MMKV says to use TSMuxer, which I will try out. Thanks. JCR Link to comment
Roy Boy Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 22 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Ah, you need a processor that does DSD and Atmos. Hmmm. I’m guessing you don’t want to convert DSD to 176.4 PCM? I am not against the idea of converting my mch dsd collection to 24/176.4. I suppose that would be something like DLNA access from the surround processor? Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 49 minutes ago, Roy Boy said: I am not against the idea of converting my mch dsd collection to 24/176.4. I suppose that would be something like DLNA access from the surround processor? Hmmmm. Multichannel over DLNA could be problematic. Last I checked it wasn’t working but that was over a year ago. Perhaps @jrobbins50 or @ted_b can help. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 18 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Hmmmm. Multichannel over DLNA could be problematic. Last I checked it wasn’t working but that was over a year ago. Quite doable as Oppo users can attest. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
speavler Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Thanks for this, Chris. I have a decent home theater setup and this post inspired me to try out some of these atmos mixes. Really enjoying REM’s “Automatic for the People” and Alice in Chains’ “Dirt”. “Rooster” wasn’t one of my favorites but man it’s giving me chills. I see PJ’s “Ten” has been given the Atmos remix as well. Gonna check it out when the house is empty tomorrow. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 50 minutes ago, speavler said: Thanks for this, Chris. I have a decent home theater setup and this post inspired me to try out some of these atmos mixes. Really enjoying REM’s “Automatic for the People” and Alice in Chains’ “Dirt”. “Rooster” wasn’t one of my favorites but man it’s giving me chills. I see PJ’s “Ten” has been given the Atmos remix as well. Gonna check it out when the house is empty tomorrow. Fantastic. heck out PJ's No Code. It's the best Atmos mix of the three PJ albums in Atmos. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said: Quite doable as Oppo users can attest. That's great to hear. It isn't in the standard, so I'm guessing it's very device specific? Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said: That's great to hear. It isn't in the standard, so I'm guessing it's very device specific? I can't say because I've not done an investigation but, over the years, I've used it with a number of devices. Apparently, multichannel is commonly done with DLNA (e.g., Plex, minimserver, etc.). Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
retro Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 10:02 PM, The Computer Audiophile said: P.S. The Reference player was recently updated to enable full screen video playback. For people into movies, like @El Guapo, this is huge! Great info, thx! Does this mean the audio is correctly synced to the video as well? Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 minute ago, retro said: Great info, thx! Does this mean the audio is correctly synced to the video as well? Let’s ask @El Guapo , I’m not a video guy. retro 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
retro Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I’m not a video guy Only a matter of time..😉 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, retro said: Only a matter of time..😉 Video bores me 🙂 jcbenten 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
jcbenten Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Video bores me 🙂 Most of the time me too....I have dozens of movies started in Netflix and Prime and have no intention of finishing. The Computer Audiophile 1 QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear RAX43 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBTouch ->SABAJ A10d->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: iPeng (iPad Air & iPhone); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: iPhone 12 ProMax & Radio Paradise or NAS streaming; Sony NWZ ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers Link to comment
El Guapo Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 42 minutes ago, retro said: Does this mean the audio is correctly synced to the video as well? If running DSP engine like Hang Loose Convolver, yes I’m satisfied with the result. Or get near-zero latency using SoundID “multichannel” on Merging Anubis, you prob need audio delay adjustment… 😆 Link to comment
bbosler Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Video bores me On the other hand, IMHO it is impossible to truly appreciate the mastery of their instrument some musicians have without seeing them perform. It is impossible to truly experience the passion of some artists without seeing them perform. It is impossible to truly understand the interplay and unspoken communication of some musical groups without seeing them perform. The main problem I have with many videos though is the extremely distracting practice of jumping from camera to camera every few seconds like it is a Van Halen MTV video. I had to stop watching a PBS tribute to Charles Mingus and a Charles Lloyd concert recently because of it. And don’t get me started on symphonies where they bounce all over the orchestra every few seconds,,,, IT DRIVES ME INSANE !!! Thank you for allowing the small rant The Computer Audiophile 1 see my system at Audiogon https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, jcbenten said: Most of the time me too....I have dozens of movies started in Netflix and Prime and have no intention of finishing. Video shuts down my brain, and I feel dumber by the minute when watching. That’s obviously just me though. I love audio because it’s theater of the mind. Similar to a book. The new podcasts delivered in Atmos are amazing. The sonic “picture” they paint is so good. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, bbosler said: On the other hand, IMHO it is impossible to truly appreciate the mastery of their instrument some musicians have without seeing them perform. It is impossible to truly experience the passion of some artists without seeing them perform. It is impossible to truly understand the interplay and unspoken communication of some musical groups without seeing them perform. The main problem I have with many videos though is the extremely distracting practice of jumping from camera to camera every few seconds like it is a Van Halen MTV video. I had to stop watching a PBS tribute to Charles Mingus and a Charles Lloyd concert recently because of it. And don’t get me started on symphonies where they bounce all over the orchestra every few seconds,,,, IT DRIVES ME INSANE !!! Thank you for allowing the small rant I hear ya. No worries about the rant :~) Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
JoeWhip Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 13 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Video shuts down my brain, and I feel dumber by the minute when watching. That’s obviously just me though. I love audio because it’s theater of the mind. Similar to a book. The new podcasts delivered in Atmos are amazing. The sonic “picture” they paint is so good. I must be really really dumb because I love video. Looking forward to the Phillies World Series in 4K and Top Gun Maverick in 4K hdr too. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
jrango Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 A footnote on getting the best from some of your favorite multichannel recordings, in particular those from 2L. While they sound amazing in normal polarity, they are recorded in reverse polarity, and the difference, at least in my system, is obvious: smoother highs, better transients, and more realistic placement in the mix, and a much more immersive experience. I understand this is a controversial subject. What I know for sure is that I can hear it, and Robert Harley, who spent a couple of hours listening to multichannel in my room, heard it. When I installed my equipment I made a point of insuring that every piece of equipment was easily accessible, so changing polarity is easy--just insert a polarity reversing plug in each XLR input. I'm not sure whether you have such easy access, but if you do, try switching polarity and see if you hear a difference. If you are downloading from Native DSD then many of their European labels are reverse polarity (with the exception of Dutch labels, whose engineers began at Phillips (that always used normal polarity). As an example of the differences, in "Magnificat" (2L-106-SABD) played in normal mode, the organ is not obviously behind and above the listening position; the organ attacks are not clear: the girls choir sounds too deep in the mix to be realistic; and the soprano soloist is too loud and not clearly in the same space. So, I suggest that, if you easily get to your amplifiers, you invest in some reversing plugs and give reverse polarity a try. In my system it makes a big difference. Link to comment
bbosler Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, jrango said: So, I suggest that, if you easily get to your amplifiers, you invest in some reversing plugs and give reverse polarity a try. In my system it makes a big difference. Glad you have found a way to improve things, but I simply can't imagine going to the trouble to switch these plugs in and out depending on what recording I'm listening to, much less testing each recording by going back and forth to determine which are, and then trying to keep track of it all. My surround system has 20 channels... do you insert plugs for all channels or just the L-R ? Have you tried this using DSP? Roon has a button to "invert phase" for all channels or individually. Should be invert polarity but pretty sure that's what they mean BTW you could insert the plugs at the output of the source, you wouldn't have to do it at the amps. see my system at Audiogon https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, jrango said: A footnote on getting the best from some of your favorite multichannel recordings, in particular those from 2L. While they sound amazing in normal polarity, they are recorded in reverse polarity, and the difference, at least in my system, is obvious: smoother highs, better transients, and more realistic placement in the mix, and a much more immersive experience. I understand this is a controversial subject. What I know for sure is that I can hear it, and Robert Harley, who spent a couple of hours listening to multichannel in my room, heard it. When I installed my equipment I made a point of insuring that every piece of equipment was easily accessible, so changing polarity is easy--just insert a polarity reversing plug in each XLR input. I'm not sure whether you have such easy access, but if you do, try switching polarity and see if you hear a difference. If you are downloading from Native DSD then many of their European labels are reverse polarity (with the exception of Dutch labels, whose engineers began at Phillips (that always used normal polarity). As an example of the differences, in "Magnificat" (2L-106-SABD) played in normal mode, the organ is not obviously behind and above the listening position; the organ attacks are not clear: the girls choir sounds too deep in the mix to be realistic; and the soprano soloist is too loud and not clearly in the same space. So, I suggest that, if you easily get to your amplifiers, you invest in some reversing plugs and give reverse polarity a try. In my system it makes a big difference. Inverting polarity is simple is Audirvana and can even read the polarity tag embedded into the tracks. My Merging hardware can invert polarity with the tap of a finger as well. I will ask Morten from 2L what he believes sounds closest to the real thing. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
jrango Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 My system has 11 channels. I can insert reversing plugs in all 11 channels in about 2 minutes. As for checking each disk (or stream) I've found that polarity is pretty consistent within each label, although the mergers that created Universal and Warner have complicated matters with DGG (reverse) recordings now appearing on Decca reissues (normal). The PS Audio DAC (at least the past generations--don't know about the DAC in beta testing) also reverses polarity with a switch. Anyone know if the the Blu-ray standards require normal polarity? The DGG Blu-rays of John Williams music performed by the Vienna and Berlin Philharmonics (terrific sound in Atmos) are normal polarity which is clearly not the case for every DGG CD, SCAD, LP and stream that I've tried. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted November 12, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2022 Hi Guys, I heard back from Morten at 2L. Here’s what he said. “We do take care to make sure natural polarity is preserved all thru our signal path from recording into delivery. But I have experienced that speakers with analogue x-over could sound better when polarity is flipped. I believe this has to do with the nature of phase twist in the filters, and how the elements snap to polarity and how they are time-aligned. A speaker designer would be better at explaining this. Speakers with linear DSP and systems with room calibration that actually takes phase and polarity into account should generally not be inverted. Whatever you do, make sure all channels are treated equally in a multichannel system.” El Guapo and Kal Rubinson 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
jrango Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Thanks for contacting 2L. This is the best explanation I've heard of why polarity is obvious in some systems and not in others (with HP of The Absolute Sound being a leading denier of polarity effects). Just for the record, I use a McIntosh 160 processor (a Lyngdorf processor with Room Perfect DSP wedded to a Mac preamp) and the Mac 901 for disks. Speakers are all B&W: 802D3 with matching center in front, with 700 series of various sizes for all other channels, set up in the recommended Auro configuration (suspended height speakers at 30 degrees above standing sight line). Room is roughly 18" x 21" by 9' with books and LP's on both side walls and traps from Acoustic Sciences in all corners. As mentioned in earlier posts, polarity is very audible in this system and room. My basic point remains: changing polarity, especially for European produced multichannel recordings, is worth a try. Link to comment
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