Streaming to an M1 Mac Via UPnP/DLNA?

[Jud]

I have an M1 MacBook Pro, and for fun and experiments I thought I'd stream to a DAC attached to it via UPnP/DLNA.  However, it appears that right now there's no way to do this.

 

What you'd ordinarily do is install a UPnP/DLNA/OpenHome renderer on the Mac.  But my go-to for this purpose, upmpdcli, isn't supported on MacOS.  There was a Homebrew recipe, but that doesn't exist any more.  One of the "usual suspects," Kodi, doesn't yet run natively on Apple silicon and I don't want to fool with emulation.  Foobar2000, strangely enough, runs on Apple silicon and does have a UPnP renderer, but it needs BubbleUPnPServer to turn it into an OpenHome renderer, and BubbleUPnPServer doesn't run natively yet on Apple silicon.

 

I did find a UPnP-AV renderer that works perfectly on the M1 MacBook and uses few resources called Macast, but it's apparently for video - it doesn't recognize audio file formats.

 

I thought for half a second about installing a Linux partition on the MacBook, but Linux for Apple silicon is decidedly in the alpha stage right now AFAIK.

 

Anyone got anything else?

[stefano_mbp]

@Judyou could try JRiver, the trial period is 30 days.

Once installed configure it as a DLNA renderer (going to Tools/Options/Media Network).

 

[stefano_mbp]

@Jud … and where from are you thinking to stream to the M1 renderer?

If you’re using a mediaserver (like Minimserver) you can use several control points.

Some of them, Bubbleupnp and MConnect Player, do not need anything else but if you are going to use Linn, Kazoo or Lumïn (they need OpenHome compatibility) you need to run Bubbleupnpserver too.

Audirvana can stream directly to JRiver as a renderer and doesn’t need OpenHome.

[Jud]

7 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

@Jud … and where from are you thinking to stream to the M1 renderer?

If you’re using a mediaserver (like Minimserver) you can use several control points.

Some of them, Bubbleupnp and MConnect Player, do not need anything else but if you are going to use Linn, Kazoo or Lumïn (they need OpenHome compatibility) you need to run Bubbleupnpserver too.

Audirvana can stream directly to JRiver as a renderer and doesn’t need OpenHome.

 

Yep, Audirvana. The developer of Macast has responded to an inquiry from me, and I'm going to see whether it will work without a whole lot of fuss (or at all). Really wanting something small/unobtrusive/free (which yes, I realize is asking a lot when there may not be anything at all).  If I understood more about Linux, Mac and Homebrew I would instantly do a recipe for upmpdcli myself, but sadly I am far from knowing enough.

[matthias]

@Jud

Do you have a licence for the "old" Audirvana 3.5.xx?

 

Matt

[Jud]

10 minutes ago, matthias said:

@Jud

Do you have a licence for the "old" Audirvana 3.5.xx?

 

Matt

I think I do, but not at all sure I have the app anymore (not at the computer), would have to look. Why?

[Cebolla]

On 10/8/2022 at 4:14 AM, Jud said:

Foobar2000, strangely enough, runs on Apple silicon and does have a UPnP renderer, but it needs BubbleUPnPServer to turn it into an OpenHome renderer, and BubbleUPnPServer doesn't run natively yet on Apple silicon.

 

Couldn't you run the BubbleUPnP Server on another machine on the network? Mine runs 24/7 on an old RPi 3 - there's even an Android version.

[Jud]

49 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

Couldn't you run the BubbleUPnP Server on another machine on the network? Mine runs 24/7 on an old RPi 3 - there's even an Android version.

 

The other computer that I have up and running is my desktop, on which I want to run Audirvana on Windows to see UPnP/DLNA running on the MacBook Pro. 

 

Are you saying I could use BubbleUPnP on the desktop to make Foobar2000 on the MacBook Pro an OpenHome renderer? Might be a bit more complicated than I want to get.

 

I've got an old ASUS Vivo minicomputer in a closet that I might dust off to run upmpdcli so I can test Audirvana Studio on Windows with it.

[Cebolla]

Yes, but I can see the complication if the desktop won't be always up whenever you require the OpenHome renderer on the MacBook Pro and/or you have an issue with the BubbleUPnP Server's prerequisite for the Java runtime to also be on the desktop.

 

 

Edit - just checking that we don't have our wires crossed here. Since you mentioned foobar2000 having a UPnP renderer, I'd assumed that you'd had found a ('clever') way of running the Windows version of fb2k (via the foo_upnp plugin) on the MacBook Pro, not the native MacOS version of fb2k which doesn't actually have a UPnP renderer. Have I got that right (Macs aren't my thing)?    

 

 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Cebolla said:

Yes, but I can see the complication if the desktop won't be always up whenever you require the OpenHome renderer on the MacBook Pro and/or you have an issue with the BubbleUPnP Server's prerequisite for the Java runtime to also be on the desktop.

 

 

Edit - just checking that we don't have our wires crossed here. Since you mentioned foobar2000 having a UPnP renderer, I'd assumed that you'd had found a ('clever') way of running the Windows version of fb2k (via the foo_upnp plugin) on the MacBook Pro, not the native MacOS version of fb2k which doesn't actually have a UPnP renderer. Have I got that right (Macs aren't my thing)?    

 

Thanks for checking, and that may be the problem. Yes, I had read that the Mac version doesn't do UPnP. But when I installed it, it appeared to report its UPnP renderer was operating, so I thought *they* had figured out how to make it run. Probably just a confusing UI (at least to me), and it wouldn't work after all.

[Cebolla]

My understanding is that the Mac version doesn't have the Windows version's plugin component function and to compensate somewhat has a few of the more useful plugins actually built into the application itself. Apparently, the Mac version does have the foo_out_upnp (aka UPnP MediaRenderer Output) plugin incorporated into it, but not the similarly named foo_upnp plugin (which is the one that provides fb2k with its UPnP renderer).

 

The foo_out_upnp's function is to provide the ability for fb2k's audio output to be streamed by any UPnP renderer that's on the network. It adds all of the UPnP renderers it finds on the network to the existing list of (real) audio output devices in fb2k's audio output settings, thus allowing a UPnP renderer to be selected as if it were the audio device for fb2k to output to. Perhaps, this is what was confusing you. 

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

My understanding is that the Mac version doesn't have the Windows version's plugin component function and to compensate somewhat has a few of the more useful plugins actually built into the application itself. Apparently, the Mac version does have the foo_out_upnp (aka UPnP MediaRenderer Output) plugin incorporated into it, but not the similarly named foo_upnp plugin (which is the one that provides fb2k with its UPnP renderer).

 

The foo_out_upnp's function is to enable fb2k's audio output to be streamed by any UPnP renderer that's on the network. It adds all of the UPnP renderers it finds on the network to the existing list of (real) audio output devices in fb2k's audio output settings, thus allowing a UPnP renderer to be selected as if it were the audio device for fb2k to output to. Perhaps, this is what was confusing you. 

Yep, that's got to be it.

[jabbr]

Firestream?

[Jud]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

Firestream?

 

Thanks, yep, looked at it. I need a renderer and could find only server capabilities.

[LondonDan]

I didn’t read all the comments but maybe using LMS Logitech media server with  a raspberry pi running something as a renderer between Mac and dac if you have one kicking about it would be a cheap option. May not be totally tidy but you could power the pi off the Mac and if a newer one you could connect it via wifi so no need for other cables to the pi just a usb from it into the dac.

[LondonDan]

https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/
 

this software allows windows on an M chip but it’s a subscription

[Jud]

@LondonDan thanks so much for the suggestions, but I really am needing rendering software to do this on a Mac - have the server piece down already. I don't particularly want to go to the extent of paid emulation software to do this.

 

It's worth updating everyone on where I am now:

 

- I've gotten an old mini PC out of a box in a closet, set it up with Linux Mint and upmpdcli, and having Audirvana Studio stream to it is working. So I've got what I need for any testing of Studio on Windows.

 

- Been working on macast, but it's still throwing errors about not recognizing audio file formats. I've delved into information on mpv config files (macast uses mpv), but there is precious little about audio. I don't see enough to understand exactly what I'd need to configure it to play all my PCM and DSD files of various resolutions. And I don't know if there's something different I'd have to use for a streamed as opposed to local file.

 

At this point it looks as if I'll need to do my experimenting exclusively with the little mini PC, and wait to see if/when there's a Homebrew recipe for upmpdcli. Too bad I couldn't get macast to do what I want, it's a nice little app.

 

 

[Cebolla]

The old OS X version of openhome.org's no longer supported sample OpenHome Player is still available for download and may be worth a punt - no idea if it runs on a more current macOS:

http://openhome.org/pages/use/index.html

 

[Jud]

Thanks @Cebolla, one other itsy bitsy technicality I neglected to mention is that I'm streaming DSD512 because that's where I like to listen and also where more bugs show up. OpenHome's player looks like it only accepts up to 24/192 PCM.

 

On the bright side, that very much narrows down what I would need to add to mpv's configuration to try to get macast to work. (However, I don't know if mpv "speaks" DSD at higher resolutions than DSD64.)

[Da Horsey]

Just want to thank you guys for having this discussion. I was very interested in seeing if the newly released Audirvana 2.1 version streaming from a M1 MacBook Air to a 2011 Mac Mini with system was possible via DLNA. 

 

After some efforts to find a solution, you guys mentioned JRiver Media Center. After JRiver was installed, Audirvana 2.1 sees it as an option for connection. The only wrinkle was it defaulted to the Mac Mini output. After a quick check going into "Sound" on High Sierra OS, just switched it back to the DAC for output and voila! 

 

Sounds even better. Wow. 

 

Thanks very much guys! 

[Jud]

Well, I found the solution, finally, and in a most unexpected place.

 

I run HQPlayer Desktop and Embedded on a couple of Linux distros I have installed on the same computer where I run Windows. One of the distros is (X)Ubuntu 22.04 Long Term Support (LTS), which is the distro for which Miska makes the package I use. The other distro, ArcoLinux, is a "rolling release" distro based on Arch Linux. The rolling release dependencies for HQPlayer often get out of sync with the long term support ones, which change much less frequently. This led me to look at HQPlayer and HQPlayer-embedded dependencies in the process of selecting the packages on the rolling release distro for which to hold back upgrades. And there I ran across Rygel, a simple command-line UPnP/DLNA server *and* renderer.

 

There isn't a native MacOS version of Rygel, but I found one on MacPorts. Installed it on the MacBook Pro, ran it from the terminal, Audirvana saw it, but no sound.  Some further research determined that I also needed to install the gstreamer1-gst-plugins-good port from MacPorts. Did that, and bingo! It works!

 

Exactly what I wanted, a free, lightweight UPnP/DLNA renderer that runs on MacOS.🙂

[Jud]

A quick note: So far, can’t play DSD (DAC is DSD256-capable, DSD128 via DoP). Have tried DoP 1.0 and 1.1.  PCM at 32/384 (device maximum PCM capability) works. Probably some rygel/plugin configuration I’m missing.