The Computer Audiophile Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Hi Guys, I need some help on this one. I know many of you have skill sets and knowledge in areas about which I can only dream. I’m not looking for anyone to do any work for me, I just need some direction because I’m stuck. I have a standard audio system description here - https://audiophile.style/system However, I think it’s an incredibly lacking way to describe / document / diagram an audio system. If you know about this stuff you can read it and pretty much understand it. However, when I added the Atmos system I realized that even learned people will struggle to understand how the pieces fit, just by looking at the system list. I think it’s high time for a change. I’d like to use something better to document or diagram the systems. In my mind I have this VR / AR walkthrough where people can see details down to following a cable to a port, but that’s likely a bit far off. Question: Does anyone have any ideas for documenting / diagraming / whatever my/our audio systems? A good app for this? Methodology? Video? I’m stuck. Thanks in advance! Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
cjf Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 29 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Hi Guys, I need some help on this one. I know many of you have skill sets and knowledge in areas about which I can only dream. I’m not looking for anyone to do any work for me, I just need some direction because I’m stuck. I have a standard audio system description here - https://audiophile.style/system However, I think it’s an incredibly lacking way to describe / document / diagram an audio system. If you know about this stuff you can read it and pretty much understand it. However, when I added the Atmos system I realized that even learned people will struggle to understand how the pieces fit, just by looking at the system list. I think it’s high time for a change. I’d like to use something better to document or diagram the systems. In my mind I have this VR / AR walkthrough where people can see details down to following a cable to a port, but that’s likely a bit far off. Question: Does anyone have any ideas for documenting / diagraming / whatever my/our audio systems? A good app for this? Methodology? Video? I’m stuck. Thanks in advance! My normal goto for system level diagrams is MS Visio but when it comes to the Audio world, its likely too much to ask for manufacturers to offer Visio templates. That would be ideal but its not realistic to expect you would find something like that. For home use I found a half respectable alternative which I use with Ubuntu called Libre Office (Open Source). Specifically I use the "Draw" application. In combination with this program and Google Searching for quality images or taking my pictures of the equipment I use I ended up basically taking screen shots of the equipment picture and "Pasting" it into the the Draw program. From there you can draw connection lines between equipment to represent the actual physical connectivity. If you can't find what you want you can also create a basic component with Draw as well. Just one easy option, I know there are many others depending on how detailed you want to get. There is also Google SketchUp (I think its a different name these days, and its not Free). With that, the skies the limit but so is the investment in time to learn it. The Computer Audiophile 1 My Audio System -Last Updated May 20 2021 Link to comment
fas42 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I think it’s high time for a change. I’d like to use something better to document or diagram the systems. In my mind I have this VR / AR walkthrough where people can see details down to following a cable to a port, but that’s likely a bit far off. Actually that's here, right now. If you are not concerned about people being able to observe what's in the room to a photographic standard, you can employ a photogrammetry tool. That is, you take a large number of photos, with your smartphone, of all the relevant stuff, from as many angles as possible; feed them to a software app, and it does all the hard stuff - the more photos you take, to the best resolution, the more accurate will be the 3D model of it. You can then upload it to something like the Sketchfab site, to make it easily accessible. A starting point, https://www.aniwaa.com/buyers-guide/3d-scanners/best-3d-scanning-apps-smartphones/ The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, fas42 said: Actually that's here, right now. If you are not concerned about people being able to observe what's in the room to a photographic standard, you can employ a photogrammetry tool. That is, you take a large number of photos, with your smartphone, of all the relevant stuff, from as many angles as possible; feed them to a software app, and it does all the hard stuff - the more photos you take, to the best resolution, the more accurate will be the 3D model of it. You can then upload it to something like the Sketchfab site, to make it easily accessible. A starting point, https://www.aniwaa.com/buyers-guide/3d-scanners/best-3d-scanning-apps-smartphones/ Wow Frank, I found this one because of your suggestion. It looks really cool. https://canvas.io fas42 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 Bummer. The final product sucks. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
fas42 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Persist. The quality of what you get is almost totally dependent on how well you photograph the space, or object. Taking numerous photos only tiny distances apart will give poor results; best outcomes are if you take shots of what's important from every possible angle you can think of. Like many things in life, there is an Art to this ... there are huge numbers of discussions on photogrammetry, 3D scanning forums complaining about poor results - and the answers are always, acquire more, and better images. The software has to get as many clues as possible as to what it's looking at - an experienced user will take 1/10 of the number of shots as a novice, and get results 10 times better than his. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 The two apps I just tried use LiDAR from my iPhone 12 Pro. I will try the images based apps now. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 So far, just disappointment with this style. Perhaps I'll just create a video style document. Scaniverse 2022-09-16 111954.mov Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 The best system diagrams I've seen used Visio. I suppose you could also use CAD but thats a bit expensive and not friendly for use Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
One and a half Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 For work, MS Visio as it is user friendly , but find the built in symbols only marginally adequate for electrical diagrams. To compensate for the symbols, a 3rd party Paul Herbert has enough symbols to cover electrical items from chips to speakers and seamlessly catalogs with existing symbol library for easy use. The Computer Audiophile 1 AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
PeterSt Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: So far, just disappointment with this style. Perhaps I'll just create a video style document. Why not video the room and then grab all the individual frames and present those as photos you took ? 60fps should do, but you can go way beyond these days. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
fas42 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 11 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: So far, just disappointment with this style. Perhaps I'll just create a video style document. Scaniverse 2022-09-16 111954.mov 8.1 MB · 4 downloads Sorry it hasn't worked out better ... something to note, everywhere you see obvious distortion, and complete loss of detail, that's because you need to take more images in those areas, closer and from more angles. If the software has insufficient data, then it has to make guesses; which you probably won't like ... sound vaguely familiar, ? Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Chris, how about asking XTEN-AV for a short-term subscription to their software? It is software used to document complex AV systems. Especially nice is the automatic cabling labeling & styling features. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said: Chris, how about asking XTEN-AV for a short-term subscription to their software? It is software used to document complex AV systems. Especially nice is the automatic cabling labeling & styling features. The company’s buzzword marketing is a bit over the top for me. Artificial intelligence and machine learning. I see evidence of neither. It’s a big database and uses if/then logic. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
bobfa Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Chris, I would start with 360 photography and create a virtual tour using one of half a dozen systems out there. You can do call-outs, etc. Here is an example of 360 images of the first two stages of my bathroom remodel. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP5Bu8eKGMbhIymdBNi3bOsI1PzI8ueP9Twui3sKkN8iskln7E1p06DBiCe9tApuQ?key=cWhUV202Nlowcy1COHNkOUkxeDZUTGlHRzBaOHp3 Note in Google Photos click the little arrow that is points in a circle in the upper right to change the view. My Audio Systems Link to comment
Jud Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Couple of things from the Linux world (haven't tried them, have no idea how user friendly or unfriendly they are): https://askubuntu.com/questions/1106647/looking-for-circuit-drawing-software https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/free-download https://www.autodesk.com/autodesk-university/class/Electronics-Non-EEs-Hands-Workshop-2017 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: The company’s buzzword marketing is a bit over the top for me. Artificial intelligence and machine learning. I see evidence of neither. It’s a big database and uses if/then logic. My personal solution won't help you. I have my son do this stuff for me. Link to comment
fas42 Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 I would say that if you're trying to document something that is a bit complex, then any tool that makes it "gee whiz!" to follow the paths within the object being documented, for an interested party, is currently going to have a solid learning curve - we're not at a stage yet where we can throw something that is convoluted at a piece of software, or mechanism, which will magically sort it all out, without solid effort by the person trying to do the job. So, find an example of something that was documented in an appealing way, where you know what the tool was that was used, and decide to put the effort into learning to use that tool ... would be how I would do it, . Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted September 20, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2022 OK, more results using Scaniverse. Interesting. Scaniverse 2022-09-20 094120.mp4 fas42, Jud and ShawnC 1 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 3:10 PM, bobfa said: Chris, I would start with 360 photography and create a virtual tour using one of half a dozen systems out there. You can do call-outs, etc. Here is an example of 360 images of the first two stages of my bathroom remodel. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP5Bu8eKGMbhIymdBNi3bOsI1PzI8ueP9Twui3sKkN8iskln7E1p06DBiCe9tApuQ?key=cWhUV202Nlowcy1COHNkOUkxeDZUTGlHRzBaOHp3 Note in Google Photos click the little arrow that is points in a circle in the upper right to change the view. What have you used to do this? Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
botrytis Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Chris if you are using an Android phone or iPhone, you should be able to do Panorama view which will allow you to take like this.... Pardon the junk, working on getting rid of things, like extra stereo equipment, etc. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Jud Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: OK, more results using Scaniverse. Interesting. Scaniverse 2022-09-20 094120.mp4 42.66 MB · 1 download Umm, wow. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
ShawnC Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: OK, more results using Scaniverse. Interesting. Scaniverse 2022-09-20 094120.mp4 42.66 MB · 1 download I see this a lot on real estate sites. Do you know anyone in graphic arts? I bet some college students or professors could put together a killer VR presentation. Everything you touch gives product information, even your carpeting if you want. Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel R-528 Sub Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, ShawnC said: I see this a lot on real estate sites. Do you know anyone in graphic arts? I bet some college students or professors could put together a killer VR presentation. Everything you touch gives product information, even your carpeting if you want. That's exactly what I want to do, but haven't found a way to make it happen. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
ShawnC Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: That's exactly what I want to do, but haven't found a way to make it happen. With your clout, just go up to SCSU and tell ‘em you have a project for a senior’s final exam or no donation this year😉 The Computer Audiophile 1 Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel R-528 Sub Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet Link to comment
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