Article: Thoughts On Immersive Audio

[DigiPete]

Chris, thanks for sharing the passion for multi-channel music reproduction - and congrats with the new system.
I can't wait to get my own 5.1 system expanded with height layers!


IMNSHO's to those new to  multi-channel music reproduction (MCH):
 

1. MCH is nothing new - many of us has been in the game for 10+ years, even if it was mostly 5.1 / 7.1 recordings in either PCM or from SACD's. Have a look at the thriving community at QuadrophonicQuad
2. Steaming is the "new" part that is promising to take MCH into main stream with convenience and many times the offering.
3. "By adding the third dimension of the soundscape, the emotional impact was increased tenfold" - quote my Morten Lindberg. And I fully agree. Hear his perspective here: Genelec visits Morten Lindberg’s stunning immersive audio studio
4. IMO, going MCH / Immersive has a much higher impact to the experience than any audiophile tinkering and perfecting your stereo system. 
   To put it bluntly: A cheap MCH system (with a good MCH recording) easily out performs a vastly more expensive stereo system of the same recording.
5. The jump from stereo to "surround" (as in 5.1 or 7.1) is as big or bigger as the next jump to "Immersive" (adding the height layers).
6. Good "Surround" recordings used to be hard to find, while "Immersive" was almost unobtainable. 
   Luckily mainstram steaming seems to jump straight to "Immersive".
7. You should go try Surround / Immersive how ever you can.
   Forget the audiophile hardware OCD for now, just make sure it's an excellent recording.
   Morten Lindberg / 2L offers pristine and free 5.1 recordings on his test bench - an easy start if you have a way to play the files. 2L Testbench

What ever you do - enjoy the music that speaks to your emotions 😉
Peace 

[DigiPete]

17 hours ago, Marco Klobas said:

 

. . . .

Active speakers have pros and cons: one weak point is that when the technology changes (a new format added or an existing format turned obsolete) an all-in-one (embedded) solution means changing basically the whole chain.

That may be the case for some consumer products, but not so in the PRO world.
In fact, your treasured recordings are almost exclusively recorded, mixed and mastered on active monitors.
Wether it's stereo, surround or immersive.

In fact, my own (digital input) Genelec SAM PRO monitors system is ready for multiples of the channels Immersive currently offer. Equally so with analogue input active monitors.

 

[DigiPete]

10 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

My experiences has been completely the opposite - all MCH that I've heard immediately brings the word "gimmicky" to mind - it's too obvious what's being done, and detracts from a truly subjective immersion in the music - I lose interest. OTOH, correct optimisation of a stereo setup allows realistic volumes to be generated in the listening space - you are in a normal, real life situation where you listen to music being performed in front of you; rather than around you.

I fully understand and empathise with your experience.
Many if not most surround music releases of the past has been a hit and miss for the right use of the surround channels.
This is why I always recommend people to try out the never failing releases from 2L!
Please check the youtube of Morten Lindberg linked by both Chris and I.
Morten exclusively records using a simple MCH microphone tree - "documenting" the experience in the optimal listening spot.
This is as pure surround / Immersive as it gets.

And while I have been jumping up and down like a freak here, to promote surround for the last decade, I admit that 90% of my listening is in stereo. 
Knowing that would be the case, I set up my rig to equally cover both stereo and surround.
I chose Genelec's 8260 with their co-axial drivers for optimum stereo imaging for my fronts.
An expensive choice of the time, fortunately these days Genelec makes smaller and more affordable co-ax monitors.

Summary:
Will a dedicated surround or immersive rig be worth it for most audiophiles - Not Yet
Can my stereo be a part of the surround or immersive rig with a little care - YES
Will all surround / Immersive recordings be magically better - NO
Can a less expensive consumer level system still convey the experience and emotions - Yes
Can well recorded surround / Immersive experiences blow my mind - Abso-f***ing-lutely

What ever you do - enjoy the music that speaks to your emotions 😉
Peace 

 

[DigiPete]

Smyth Research A16 Realiser . . .

So I have been looking for the most cost efficient and broad way to "be allowed" to stream Atmos content.
Man, why isn't it just easy???
I suppose it is, if you buy a standard Atmos certified reciever and just live with the sub-par sound quality.
I just can't get myself to do that!

The Smyth A16 seems to be the "cheapest box" I can find ($4k 😱).
A 16 channel EAS/EBU version exists, and it has e-arc and decodes Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Auro 3D.

Questions:

1. Am I missing something???
2. Do you have any experience with the A16?
3. Have you found a cheaper option for a minimum 12 channel Atmos solution that will trigger, say Tidal, to deliver Atmos?

I run AES driven monitors, but this "magic box" I'm looking for should equally benefit anyone who prefers to choose their own dac's.
Thanks

 

[DigiPete]

9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is the magic box you need. 
 

https://www.arvus.com/atmos-h2-4d.html

Thanks Chris for reminding me.

I remember seeing the Arvus earlier, but it was always an "elusive" box.
Same pricing of $4-5k mentioned around but not on their homepage, pre-ordering and none for sale.
I suppose this is the price we pay for being a small subset of a subset of audiophiles (also a small subset).
Now, what bullet to bite???


 

[DigiPete]

32 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi @DigiPete, I was thinking about this more today. I know, that’s what I do. Eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff. The issue with the Arvus going AES out is the lack of DSP if the source is something like an Apple TV. Apple TV > Arvus > AES > speakers, leaves no place for room correction. 
 

On the other hand, using the Arvus Ravenna outputs, the signal can be sent to a computer running convolution, then sent back out via Ravenna. If your speakers had Tavenna input, all would be right :~)

 

Also, if your speakers had Ravenna input, you could use a Mac with Apple Music and convolution, to send right to them. No Arvus needed. 

Yup, or you have a full Genelec SAM monitor system controlled by GLM and fed pure AES/EBU.
That means a full suite of low latency DSP right in the monitors including room compensation, and volume. 
I just need a couple of extra monitors to complete a 5.1.4 system . . .

Genelec actually has the 40XX series of "Smart IP Installation Speakers"  with AES67 / Dante Input and PoE.
Unfortunately none with coaxial drivers - so a no-go for me.
There is no way back, once you experience that co-ax imaging 😉

[DigiPete]

6 minutes ago, ShawnC said:

Here you go @DigiPete, create a new room with this setup😁

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ImmersiveSysG1--genelec-7.14-immersive-audio-studio-monitor-system

Thanks @ShawnC

That is pretty much what I'm doing . . . . .

Well, I'm restricted to a 5.1 base layer due to room layout , but with the equipment I already have:

Base layer: 5 x 8260 - Genelec's first monitor with their co-axial driver, now replaced by the 8361.
Sub / LFE: 1 x 7271  - 500w 2 x 12" 82kg monster
Height layer: 2 x 8250 + the two I'm missing - say 2 x 8330

+10 years old and still hard to beat. 

Genelc's flagship series "The Ones" (8331 - 8361) are unbeatable, so 3 of those for fronts if I were to start over.
However, my trusty old 8260's have 'one up' on even on the top flagship 8361 - it's fully full range.
8260 is spec'ed at 23 Hz - 40 kHz ("-6 dB"), 8361 only 30 Hz - 43 kHz (-6 dB).
That translates to 19Hz - (-3db) in-room for the 8260. In my space that is.

It may seem like nit-picking, but IMO a system is not complete till it plays 20-20kHz, and my stereo setup does so with no sub. 
OTOH if $$$ and space were no issue, I could go the 'Morten Lindberg route' and spec the base layer with 7 x 8351's on top of 7 x W371A SAM™ Woofer Systems. Now, wouldn't that be something.

I'm actually super thankful for what I have.
Atmos streaming direct into AES3 and the long awaited re-shuffle to 5.1.4 will just be the cherry on top.
Remember: Dreaming is free until it suddenly isn't 😉

What ever you do - enjoy the music!
Peace



 

[DigiPete]

2 hours ago, ShawnC said:

Here you go @DigiPete, create a new room with this setup😁

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ImmersiveSysG1--genelec-7.14-immersive-audio-studio-monitor-system

Like Chris, my brain won't let me off the hook . . . . 

How I would start over, if I realistically spec'ed a new 5.1.4 Genelec system from scratch? 

• Base layer: 3 x 8341 (L/C/R) + 2 x 8330 L/R rear
• Sub / LFE: 2 x 7360
• Height layer: 4 x 8330

Multiple Atmos studios have been build like that around the world - naturally in 7.1.4.
Totally makes sense to me.

I'd additionally need:

• GLM kit - calibration & control
• Rotary volume knob - 9301B
• Remote  - 9101B -  On/OFF, Volume, mute , change of group presets.
• Multi-channel AES/EBU interface (sub integration) - 9301B just about to be released

At $ / € 20k, this monitor system delivers insane quality for the money with fast & easy setup and predictable room compensation.

Way too much?
Wanna go analogue & 'roll your own' ( dac, room compensation, volume control etc.)?
Still want the SPL and bang for the buck?
Go Motu + Kali 

Base layer: 7 x Kali IN-8 (2nd wave)
Sub / LFE: 1 x Kali WS-12
Height layer: 4 x Kali IN-5
DAC / DSP: 2 x Motu 8A

ESS DAC's in the Motu's are rather good and you can control volume in all 16 channels from the MOTU web app or app on your computer. 
The Moto has a limited 4 PEQ's per channel, but it'll still help you harness those low's.

This monitor system also delivers insane quality for the money, a little less perfect and requires way more tinkering.
$ / € 6k !!!!!

[DigiPete]

I wrote a little description of how to get virtalised rendering of Atmos into your headphones on a shoestring.
It's easy to have an opinion if you never experienced Atmos or surround.
I bet most will think otherwise once you hear Kind of blue or Jean-Michel Jarre's Oxymore - even through this €200 setup!