IFI PRO IDSD DAC, is it a worthy upgrade?

[dericchan1]

17 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Here's the Head-fi thread about the Pro, perhaps @Currawong

may be of help?

 

And Currawong's review talked about issue with the noise from WIFI module injected to the DAC, and there is no option to turn off wifi even if you are not using it. The noise was apparent when using IEMs. Not sure if that noise have any impact using the PRO as a DAC to preamp/amp/speakers set up tho. He didn't seem to say it did

[Currawong]

Yeah, the Neo had some crazy flaws considering what they were asking for it. 

The Pro .. if you use the GTO filter, tends to put everything very forward in the soundstage, which I think sounds good with headphones in some respects, but isn't so great if you like an actual, deep and real soundstage with speakers. 

 

I tend to be more "Just buy a Qutest and be done with the messing around" nowadays. But then, some people totally gel with Chord gear, and some don't.  If you must do DSD, the best I've heard it was through an Audio-gd DAC -- maybe because it didn't sound like all the transients had been blunted and doesn't have that artificial softness DSD has through a lot of gear. But, Audio-gd DACs require 4 hours of warm-up for best results (or just don't switch them off).

[dericchan1]

53 minutes ago, Currawong said:

Yeah, the Neo had some crazy flaws considering what they were asking for it. 

The Pro .. if you use the GTO filter, tends to put everything very forward in the soundstage, which I think sounds good with headphones in some respects, but isn't so great if you like an actual, deep and real soundstage with speakers. 

 

I tend to be more "Just buy a Qutest and be done with the messing around" nowadays. But then, some people totally gel with Chord gear, and some don't.  If you must do DSD, the best I've heard it was through an Audio-gd DAC -- maybe because it didn't sound like all the transients had been blunted and doesn't have that artificial softness DSD has through a lot of gear. But, Audio-gd DACs require 4 hours of warm-up for best results (or just don't switch them off).

Appreciate your response @Currawong 

 

Can you please advise what are some of the crazy flaws with the NEO? I read through different forum threads and most of the issues were in connection with the HP amp, but I am not a HP person. I have been using the NEO for almost a year now, but only for DSD playback so I don't use any of the digital filters that came with the NEO, and are pretty happy with the sound quality. I actually had for a period of time a Schiit Bifrost 2 and the Qutest comparing side by side and ended up keeping the NEO.

 

The Pro I was eyeing, again my use case with the Pro will be exactly the same, DSD playback and ditch any of the PRO's filters. 

 

Thanks for recommending the Audio-gd DAC for DSD playback, I will do some researches on their lineup.

 

Thanks

 

Deric

[dericchan1]

@CurrawongI forgot to mention I am a fan of your reviews!!!

[deanorthk]

I got the iDSD pro (signature one). I can't say it's a bad DAC, it's even superior to my Mytek brooklyn bridge in many way, but it lack Roon endpoint, which for me is a flaw in design.

but as a headphone amp, it's a really great product, and sonicaly speaking, it match my fostex TH900MK2 wonderfully.

AS a dac, it's full of detail, the soundstage is great, and it's full of feature for tweaking. But I do guess there are things for the same price that could perfom better, maybe with less options and tweaks, but in the end, only the sound matters I guess:)

[dericchan1]

28 minutes ago, deanorthk said:

I got the iDSD pro (signature one). I can't say it's a bad DAC, it's even superior to my Mytek brooklyn bridge in many way, but it lack Roon endpoint, which for me is a flaw in design.

but as a headphone amp, it's a really great product, and sonicaly speaking, it match my fostex TH900MK2 wonderfully.

AS a dac, it's full of detail, the soundstage is great, and it's full of feature for tweaking. But I do guess there are things for the same price that could perfom better, maybe with less options and tweaks, but in the end, only the sound matters I guess:)

Thanks for your comments to confirm the PRO as a great sounding dac. Lack of roon endpoint is not a deal breaker for me and I don’t intend to use its streamer function anyway. 
 

but your comment is what I look for in terms of actual user experience with the dac and your impression!! Greatly appreciated

[deanorthk]

16 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

Thanks for your comments to confirm the PRO as a great sounding dac. Lack of roon endpoint is not a deal breaker for me and I don’t intend to use its streamer function anyway. 
 

but your comment is what I look for in terms of actual user experience with the dac and your impression!! Greatly appreciated

you are welcome. I don't post often, because i'm in the middle of a huge re organisation in my life. But before buying, I have search quite a lot about what to buy, because I had nearly 3K euro for that, which is for me a huge amount of money and I wanted to be as sure as one can be without listening to a dac prior to buy it. 

So I had the chance to listen to good dac (without amp) in the 3K range, to headphone amp, with my fostex TH900. And most of the listening where from good to bad. The TH900 can be bright, and for example, the violectric amp was a no go, the burson one also no go. With my mytek, it was really nice, as it is, per essence, a neutral and quite "soft" dac. But the iDSD is something else, not warm (the tube influence is "light"), but it got more presence, and despite the TH900 beeing a close headphone, the stage is actually really large. And I repeat, it's not a bright dac, not fatiguing. 

But as it is revealing, it sound as bad as the recording can be, which is common for most dac of course.

Point to mention : USB 3.1 connexion can be a problem for audiophile wanting to swap usb cable. For me it shouldn't have been an issue, as I wanted to go LAN, but.... waiting for firmware update for roon:)

[dericchan1]

8 hours ago, deanorthk said:

you are welcome. I don't post often, because i'm in the middle of a huge re organisation in my life. But before buying, I have search quite a lot about what to buy, because I had nearly 3K euro for that, which is for me a huge amount of money and I wanted to be as sure as one can be without listening to a dac prior to buy it. 

So I had the chance to listen to good dac (without amp) in the 3K range, to headphone amp, with my fostex TH900. And most of the listening where from good to bad. The TH900 can be bright, and for example, the violectric amp was a no go, the burson one also no go. With my mytek, it was really nice, as it is, per essence, a neutral and quite "soft" dac. But the iDSD is something else, not warm (the tube influence is "light"), but it got more presence, and despite the TH900 beeing a close headphone, the stage is actually really large. And I repeat, it's not a bright dac, not fatiguing. 

But as it is revealing, it sound as bad as the recording can be, which is common for most dac of course.

Point to mention : USB 3.1 connexion can be a problem for audiophile wanting to swap usb cable. For me it shouldn't have been an issue, as I wanted to go LAN, but.... waiting for firmware update for roon:)

Thanks again. Interesting to note that the tube buffer output stage does not actually make much difference

[dc-audiogeek]

I’ve been a happy iDSD Pro owner for three years. It’s a definite step up from the Neo, and if you already like the iFi house sound, you can’t go wrong with it. If you want to get more out of the tube buffer stage, you can always roll tubes to get more of a euphonic sound. 

[dericchan1]

Just now, dc-audiogeek said:

I’ve been a happy iDSD Pro owner for three years. It’s a definite step up from the Neo, and if you already like the iFi house sound, you can’t go wrong with it. If you want to get more out of the tube buffer stage, you can always roll tubes to get more of a euphonic sound. 

Thanks @dc-audiogeek do you know how the original Pro compares with the Signature Pro? I can't seem to figure out the differences with vague descriptions on their website. The biggest difference seems to be the inclusion of the elite PSU which is not a big deal to me since I would probably supply my own PSU anyway. 

 

 

[dc-audiogeek]

Just now, dericchan1 said:

Thanks @dc-audiogeek do you know how the original Pro compares with the Signature Pro? I can't seem to figure out the differences with vague descriptions on their website. The biggest difference seems to be the inclusion of the elite PSU which is not a big deal to me since I would probably supply my own PSU anyway. 

 

 

They made internal improvements to the power supply and filtering. They added the iPower Elite PSU and better tubes than those that came with the original version, but that’s it for the differences. I’m not sure it’s worth the increase in price.

[dericchan1]

9 minutes ago, dc-audiogeek said:

They made internal improvements to the power supply and filtering. They added the iPower Elite PSU and better tubes than those that came with the original version, but that’s it for the differences. I’m not sure it’s worth the increase in price.

Ya, I figure the internal improvements to the power supply has more to do with the headphone amp section?

 

I don't intend to use their digital filters anyway and I can always get better tubes. 

 

Sounds tempting for the step up from the NEO

[dc-audiogeek]

Oh, I forgot to mention the newer version has a better remote with more functions. Again, not a great justification for the increase in price from the original.

[dericchan1]

26 minutes ago, dc-audiogeek said:

Oh, I forgot to mention the newer version has a better remote with more functions. Again, not a great justification for the increase in price from the original.

Ya the bottom line is I don’t use 70% of its features - I don’t need a remote, I won’t use their dsd remastering, I won’t use their filters, won’t use the streamer function, not really a headphone person. 
 

i am simply using it at fixed volume as a pure dac 

[Fredc]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:34 AM, dericchan1 said:

Thanks @dc-audiogeek do you know how the original Pro compares with the Signature Pro? I can't seem to figure out the differences with vague descriptions on their website. The biggest difference seems to be the inclusion of the elite PSU which is not a big deal to me since I would probably supply my own PSU anyway. 

 

 

Haven't look at this thread for a while. I am using the Pro not the signature pro. I beleive the main difference besides little gadgets are the signature comes with a high end linear power supply. It's not applicable to me as with the old Pro, I am using an external linear power supply anyway. Besides the linear PSU, I've also done a couple of other things.  I am using an external master clock. This is an interesting one I got off Alixexpress which they called GPSDO. It's an OCXO clock which is connected to GPS  for "disciplining" every 30 seconds. Also upgraded the tubes. Am using this as a pure dac with HQPLayer 7ecv2 48x512. Had not listened to the Neo so I don't know what the differences may be. One thing if you are looking for DSD1024, this does not play it. It only upsample to DSD1024 not play 1024dsd input. I did tried inputting DSD256 from HQPLayer and let the Pro upsampled that to DSD1024. Settled for DSD512 from HQPlayer which I feel sounds better.

[dericchan1]

5 minutes ago, Fredc said:

Haven't look at this thread for a while. I am using the Pro not the signature pro. I beleive the main difference besides little gadgets are the signature comes with a high end linear power supply. It's not applicable to me as with the old Pro, I am using an external linear power supply anyway. Besides the linear PSU, I've also done a couple of other things.  I am using an external master clock. This is an interesting one I got off Alixexpress which they called GPSDO. It's an OCXO clock which is connected to GPS  for "disciplining" every 30 seconds. Also upgraded the tubes. Am using this as a pure dac with HQPLayer 7ecv2 48x512. Had not listened to the Neo so I don't know what the differences may be. One thing if you are looking for DSD1024, this does not play it. It only upsample to DSD1024 not play 1024dsd input. I did tried inputting DSD256 from HQPLayer and let the Pro upsampled that to DSD1024. Settled for DSD512 from HQPlayer which I feel sounds better.

Thanks for your comments. Exactly what I would like to know!!!

 

much appreciated

 

Deric

[mehrdad]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:20 PM, dericchan1 said:

Ya, I figure the internal improvements to the power supply has more to do with the headphone amp section?

 

I don't intend to use their digital filters anyway and I can always get better tubes. 

 

Sounds tempting for the step up from the NEO

elite power is 300 usd and it will make your dac sound completely different, i used ipowerX with signature one and neo in compare to stock power adapter the sound difference was alot!

[mehrdad]

i never compared neo and pro but i had the chance to compared neo (800$) and Signature One(400$).

also i tested them with and without iFIs galvanic and usb noise filter,i can confirm that they do sound better with galvanic and usb noise filter .

neo was clearly better than signature one , you can expect the same from pro (3000$)

apart from better power ,better chip and more cores and better board design (ie xlr implementation) Pro has integrated Galvanic and better noise filter implementation than neo , so no matter what its gonna sound better.

2K price point? i think its a bargain

[deanorthk]

I have had the chance to compare three DAC/amp lately, two I owned for quite a time, and a new dac, the Woo Audio WA88 eclipse.

It's by essence a transportable DAC, but the price range (nearly 2K)  make it a not so bad way to compare how my music sound, with three headphones: Fostex TH900MK2, AUdeze LCD GX, Alambic Ears Noosa custom IEM.

The iDSD is superior , it's not a huge gap, but the music flows so much more freely. the woo audio is very suprising, but due to it's true tube nature, and battery powered dac/amp.

Headphone amp wise, 1/ iDSD pro signature 2/ Woo audio WA 3/ Mytek Brooklyn bridge .

[dericchan1]

Just a brief update I have finally made the upgrade from the NEO to the Pro (non signature version)!!! Will be picking up the Pro on Monday and report back my findings!!!!

 

Cheers

 

Deric

[Fredc]

15 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

Just a brief update I have finally made the upgrade from the NEO to the Pro (non signature version)!!! Will be picking up the Pro on Monday and report back my findings!!!!

 

Cheers

 

Deric

Nice. A few things I noticed. Hqplayer doesn't treat Pro as 48K. Best to uncheck 48k Dsd and stay with 44.1 x 256/512. With 256K, you can use Pro to upsample to 512K or 1024K. Nice cheat to get 1024DSD. For a long time, I prefer 512K DSD from HQolayer pass through. Pro does direct DSD and it sound excellent. But upsampling from HQolayer dsd256 to dsd1024 is growing on me. 

[dericchan1]

3 hours ago, Fredc said:

Nice. A few things I noticed. Hqplayer doesn't treat Pro as 48K. Best to uncheck 48k Dsd and stay with 44.1 x 256/512. With 256K, you can use Pro to upsample to 512K or 1024K. Nice cheat to get 1024DSD. For a long time, I prefer 512K DSD from HQolayer pass through. Pro does direct DSD and it sound excellent. But upsampling from HQolayer dsd256 to dsd1024 is growing on me. 

Thanks for the tips. Have you been using the tube mode on the PRO? I wonder how long does the stock tube last and due for replacement. People talk about tube rolling, wonder if you might have tried that.

 

Cheers

[Fredc]

9 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

Thanks for the tips. Have you been using the tube mode on the PRO? I wonder how long does the stock tube last and due for replacement. People talk about tube rolling, wonder if you might have tried that.

 

Cheers

I am a tube tragic and It's a big reason why I decided on ifi idsd pro. Have rolled a few tubes on pro.and now on western electric 396a. They are nos tubes and not easy to buy, also not cheap https://www.ebay.com/p/1227532404. Also beware open the case and you void the warranty. Replace the tubes is not straight forward either, tube sitting and the case itself are very tight and if you are not careful you can damage some of the wiring. Your best bet for first upgrade is the power supply but really probably best to stay with the standard dac for a few months first. The PRO especially with the tube option is likely to take a few hundred hours to burn in. So be too dejected if it doesn't blow you away straight away. Tubes themselves will last for quite a few thousand hours. 

[dericchan1]

34 minutes ago, Fredc said:

I am a tube tragic and It's a big reason why I decided on ifi idsd pro. Have rolled a few tubes on pro.and now on western electric 396a. They are nos tubes and not easy to buy, also not cheap https://www.ebay.com/p/1227532404. Also beware open the case and you void the warranty. Replace the tubes is not straight forward either, tube sitting and the case itself are very tight and if you are not careful you can damage some of the wiring. Your best bet for first upgrade is the power supply but really probably best to stay with the standard dac for a few months first. The PRO especially with the tube option is likely to take a few hundred hours to burn in. So be too dejected if it doesn't blow you away straight away. Tubes themselves will last for quite a few thousand hours. 

Thanks, I ask about the tubes because this is a used unit that I bought so I am not sure how much more tube life is left. I am also looking at the ipower elite 15v3a as the next upgrade. I read about the we396a tubes not cheap and easy to find and lots of fakes on eBay, and not easy to open up the chassis either. So tube rolling will not be a priority.

 

cheers

 

Deric

[GUTB]

Just wanted to correct some incorrect information in this thread about DSD playback. DAC chips like the  9018, 9028, 9038, 9068 (ESS Sabre family) pads the 1-bit stream up to 6 or 7 (?) bits in order to run the chip's logic on it. This padding is done in the chip's SRC (Sample Rate Conversion) stage. As an aside, SRC can be bypassed using an I2S input. But this padding is completely lossless. There's no difference between, say, an ESS or one of the 1-bit DACs after being processed.