Equipment for Asymmetric Hearing Loss

[Andrew Canadian]

Sadly, I've recently learned, at age 37, that a congenital condition is going to cost me my hearing in my right ear.  I'm no audiophile, but I do love listening to music and even the hearing loss I have now is really diminishing my enjoyment.  I bet there's a technological solution, but I'm not very gear savvy and I'm having trouble finding the right search terms.  (By the same token, I've tried and failed to find a similar post elsewhere in the forum - please link me if I've overlooked something relevant.)

 

So, here's the problem: everything is quieter in my right ear, but when I shift the balance to the right, the high notes get way too loud.  As far as I can tell, I'm missing the middle, because I can generally hear the rhythm, but singers (alto-ish) tend to disappear.  I'd normally correct this by fiddling with the bass and treble knobs, but that messes up the left ear.  Is there a piece of equipment I can use to adjust the bass and treble for only the right ear?

 

Setup:

RPi4 with Volumio into a DAC via USB

DAC into an analog receiver via RCA

Phono into the same receiver via RCA (pre-amp in receiver)

Receiver into headphones and speakers

 

Best: I can play either the RPi4 or the phono through the headphones with adjustment and through the speakers without

Second best: I can play the RPi4 through the DAC's headphone out with adjustment and all the receiver stuff works as it does now

 

Bonus question: is there something I can attach to or run on my phone (currently Android, but due for replacement) to do this while travelling?  I wouldn't need knobs on the go - pre-setting something at home would be fine.

 

No suggestion too obvious. ;)

 

Thanks,

Andrew

[firedog]

5 hours ago, Andrew Canadian said:

If so, that sounds like it might be handy because I could take it with me when I travel or get a spare for the office (no speakers in the open space...

Probably not worth traveling with such a device. For it to work properly you need to have a room measurement. 

If you just want to apply convolution/filtering to your listening when traveling,  the easy way to do that is through playback software, probably on a laptop. You just apply a convolution filter made for your headphones during playback. You don't need a DSP box for that, just a previously produced convolution filter designed for your headphone listening.

 

You could use such a box in your office after taking room measurements or creating a convolution filter based on measurements of your head and headphones. But again, you can also apply convolution/DSP with playback software. You don't really need the device, unless you want it for other features. 

5 hours ago, Andrew Canadian said:

what's the difference between a convolution filter and, e.g., an equalizer?  Can I just think of it as a very fancy equalizer or is there more to it?

Simple terms: a convolution filter is built from room measurements (or ear-head listening measurements for headphone listening) and it adjusts for the peaks and valleys induced by the room/head-ears. Say, exactly reversing a room mode that unnaturally pumps up the bass you are hearing at 40 hz, as one example. The idea is that what you hear after convolution is sound adjusted exactly for the specific listening environment, so that the specific anomalies of that environment are eliminated. Some types of DRC also build convolution filters that adjust for timing differences in what you are hearing, in addition to frequency adjustments. 

 

Equalizing is different: it usually is used to describe changing frequencies in your audio output from the input. You can use it to try and do what a convolution filter does, but it's much more crude and less effective. In our above example, you can use it to try and reverse a room bass mode, but it's a bit of trial and error. You won't be able to get an extremely accurate result. And you will probably correct some stuff that shouldn't have been corrected. At best an approximate correction of what you are hearing, as opposed to a convolution filter, that will exactly reverse the room effects. 

[mitchco]

23 hours ago, Andrew Canadian said:

It's probably heresy, but I'm fine with listening to speakers through my good ear.  It only spoils my enjoyment when listening to headphones.

 

Hi @Andrew Canadian I have had a number of clients in which we have tried to compensate for hearing loss through eq'ing speakers, but because of room reflections and no way to isolate the sound from entering both ears, the results have not been very good. In this case, hearing aid assistance is the best approach.

 

However, for headphones, it is a different matter as we can now isolate the left and right ears with no room reflections. So there is a better chance of correcting this. It is still a bit tricky as the FIR convolution filter should only compensate for the difference between what the regular hearing loss is expected for 37 years and the deficit in the one ear, measured in decibels. You should ask for a "high resolution" audiogram that is more than hearing thresholds measured at only five to six frequencies at octave intervals. The plot should also contain the typical hearing loss of a 37 year old so the difference can be calculated. The plot for the left ear should be included as we not only want to know the difference, but also want to match the response to the left ear as well.

 

The resulting convolution filter can be loaded into Camilla DSP or BruteFIR or I am not sure what other convolver is available for the RPi4. My HLConvolver would work, but I have not purchased an RPi4 to recompile to yet.

 

Hope that helps.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Andrew, the first thing that comes to mind is some sort of convolution filter that takes your hearing into account. 

 

@mitchco have you heard of this before?

[Andrew Canadian]

Thanks, @The Computer Audiophile!  Is that hardware or software?  A quick web search suggests the latter (and a daunting level of complexity).

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, Andrew Canadian said:

Thanks, @The Computer Audiophile!  Is that hardware or software?  A quick web search suggests the latter (and a daunting level of complexity).

It’s a software solution, but companies like Mitch Barnett’s Accurate Sound handle the hard parts for you. 
 

https://accuratesound.ca

 

 

[vintageaxeman]

4 hours ago, Andrew Canadian said:

Sadly, I've recently learned, at age 37, that a congenital condition is going to cost me my hearing in my right ear.  I'm no audiophile, but I do love listening to music and even the hearing loss I have now is really diminishing my enjoyment.  I bet there's a technological solution, but I'm not very gear savvy and I'm having trouble finding the right search terms.  (By the same token, I've tried and failed to find a similar post elsewhere in the forum - please link me if I've overlooked something relevant.)

 

So, here's the problem: everything is quieter in my right ear, but when I shift the balance to the right, the high notes get way too loud.  As far as I can tell, I'm missing the middle, because I can generally hear the rhythm, but singers (alto-ish) tend to disappear.  I'd normally correct this by fiddling with the bass and treble knobs, but that messes up the left ear.  Is there a piece of equipment I can use to adjust the bass and treble for only the right ear?

 

Setup:

RPi4 with Volumio into a DAC via USB

DAC into an analog receiver via RCA

Phono into the same receiver via RCA (pre-amp in receiver)

Receiver into headphones and speakers

 

Best: I can play either the RPi4 or the phono through the headphones with adjustment and through the speakers without

Second best: I can play the RPi4 through the DAC's headphone out with adjustment and all the receiver stuff works as it does now

 

Bonus question: is there something I can attach to or run on my phone (currently Android, but due for replacement) to do this while travelling?  I wouldn't need knobs on the go - pre-setting something at home would be fine.

 

No suggestion too obvious. ;)

 

Thanks,

Andrew

Hi Andrew.

I fully understand your situation, and agree.

I have a similar situation with my ears, one requiring more volume than the other, but there IS a frequency response shift between them.

I found this out when I had a hearing test at Boots, the famous UK Pharmacist, Sight and hearing centres.

 

I went for a de-2ax, which made a huge difference, but also had a hearing test.

 

The best way to deal with this for speaker use, I imagine, is by having either:

 

1) a fully dual mono system.

or better still...

2) a dual mono system with frequency control, which could be a stereo Graphic equaliser, or it could be a software based equaliser.

I have used both the full, huge, heavy SPL Passeq in my system, and an SPL Passeq plug-in from Plug-In Alliance. Both worked brilliantly.

 

For headphone use, I use a pair of Nuraphones which self-adjust to your hearing. (The Nura app sends test signals through the headphones, analyses the results, creates a hearing profile for your individual hearing, and then uses that profile when you play music. They work well and have proved to be a great investment.

 

https://www.nuraphone.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI84ybxZuT-AIVGJftCh2ZsgQGEAAYASAAEgIwQ_D_BwE

[DuckToller]

8 hours ago, Andrew Canadian said:

Sadly, I've recently learned, at age 37, that a congenital condition is going to cost me my hearing in my right ear.  I'm no audiophile, but I do love listening to music and even the hearing loss I have now is really diminishing my enjoyment.  I bet there's a technological solution, but I'm not very gear savvy and I'm having trouble finding the right search terms.  (By the same token, I've tried and failed to find a similar post elsewhere in the forum - please link me if I've overlooked something relevant.)

 

So, here's the problem: everything is quieter in my right ear, but when I shift the balance to the right, the high notes get way too loud.  As far as I can tell, I'm missing the middle, because I can generally hear the rhythm, but singers (alto-ish) tend to disappear.  I'd normally correct this by fiddling with the bass and treble knobs, but that messes up the left ear.  Is there a piece of equipment I can use to adjust the bass and treble for only the right ear?

 

Setup:

RPi4 with Volumio into a DAC via USB

DAC into an analog receiver via RCA

Phono into the same receiver via RCA (pre-amp in receiver)

Receiver into headphones and speakers

 

Best: I can play either the RPi4 or the phono through the headphones with adjustment and through the speakers without

Second best: I can play the RPi4 through the DAC's headphone out with adjustment and all the receiver stuff works as it does now

 

Bonus question: is there something I can attach to or run on my phone (currently Android, but due for replacement) to do this while travelling?  I wouldn't need knobs on the go - pre-setting something at home would be fine.

 

No suggestion too obvious. ;)

 

Thanks,

Andrew

There is Camilla DSP for RPi based solutions, however i would think that you would be in need for an active speaker solution where you can control/ manipulate the frequencies which bother you.

Without experinence and medical training, I would assume that you'd could run into trouble on the psychoacoustic side of things when you good ear doesn't receive the information it expects?

Let's ask members who are pro's

@Archimago@mitchco@kravi4ka

Pls feel free to make suggestions.

Bon weekend!

[Andrew Canadian]

12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It’s a software solution, but companies like Mitch Barnett’s Accurate Sound handle the hard parts for you. 
 

https://accuratesound.ca

 

 

 

That looks pretty cool!  Is there one you'd recommend for Linux (RPi) or mobile?

[Andrew Canadian]

10 hours ago, vintageaxeman said:

I have a similar situation with my ears, one requiring more volume than the other, but there IS a frequency response shift between them.

I've had all the tests, but I haven't had the follow up appointment yet (they're booking a month out), so I don't know the precise details of my hearing loss.  So far, I'm just guesstimating, based on what's missing.

 

10 hours ago, vintageaxeman said:

I went for a de-2ax, which made a huge difference, but also had a hearing test.

I've had issues with wax in the past, so I went in blithely assuming they'd flush things out and I'd be good as new. :(

 

10 hours ago, vintageaxeman said:

The best way to deal with this for speaker use

It's probably heresy, but I'm fine with listening to speakers through my good ear.  It only spoils my enjoyment when listening to headphones.

 

10 hours ago, vintageaxeman said:

For headphone use, I use a pair of Nuraphones

I've never seen anything like those - that's crazy!  I hope they're more comfortable than they look?

[Andrew Canadian]

6 hours ago, DuckToller said:

There is Camilla DSP for RPi based solutions, however i would think that you would be in need for an active speaker solution where you can control/ manipulate the frequencies which bother you.

Without experinence and medical training, I would assume that you'd could run into trouble on the psychoacoustic side of things when you good ear doesn't receive the information it expects?

Let's ask members who are pro's

@Archimago@mitchco@kravi4ka

Pls feel free to make suggestions.

Bon weekend!

You are *way* ahead of me.  😆

 

DSP (which I'm reading as fine-grained customization) for RPi sounds promising.  Does it have a toggle so I can disable it when I'm listening through speakers?  (I'm naively assuming that my speakers would sound wonky with one channel adjusted for hearing loss.)

 

You are entirely correct that I have limited experience and no medical training.  I was blissfully ignorant of everything to do with hearing loss (other than, "not too loud") until a month ago.  What are psychoacoustic effects?  I hear a faint constant tone in my bad ear (I assume this is what people mean when they say "tinnitus", though it's not "ringing" at all) - maybe that's one?  So far, it's quiet enough to be drowned out by virtually any music, but if there are special compensating techniques, I'd be happy to get ahead of it.  Or maybe you meant something else entirely...

 

Thanks for tagging the pros!

 

Bon weekend!

[Andrew Canadian]

I hope I'm not messing up the flow of the question/answer thread, but I just wanted to thank all you - it's been decades since I've spent any time on a forum and my expectations were very low, but this seems to be a very welcoming and helpful community.  Thanks!

[Andrew Canadian]

9 hours ago, mitchco said:

I have had a number of clients in which we have tried to compensate for hearing loss through eq'ing speakers

Sorry, I think my original post was confusing - I only mentioned speakers at all because I don't want them to be affected by any adjustments.  I have no problem with listening to them predominantly through my good ear.

 

9 hours ago, mitchco said:

You should ask for a "high resolution" audiogram

I didn't know there were multiple kinds.  I'll ask at my next appointment.  Thanks!

 

9 hours ago, mitchco said:

The plot should also contain the typical hearing loss of a 37 year old so the difference can be calculated

This is very interesting.  It sounds like you're saying it would be better/preferable to match my bad ear to my good ear rather than to "neutral"?

 

9 hours ago, mitchco said:

I have not purchased an RPi4 to recompile to yet

Good luck!  I wanted a second one for a project and even pre-orders were sold out.  I'm hoping the microchip situation resolves sometime this year.

 

9 hours ago, mitchco said:

The resulting convolution filter

It's probably not important, but I'm curious - what's the difference between a convolution filter and, e.g., an equalizer?  Can I just think of it as a very fancy equalizer or is there more to it?

 

While searching for solutions (and some of the terms above - thanks!) I've stumbled upon some "DSP" devices.  Is that basically outboard hardware that would apply a convolution filter (and possibly other transformations)?  If so, that sounds like it might be handy because I could take it with me when I travel or get a spare for the office (no speakers in the open space...).

 

Thanks again!

[Andrew Canadian]

19 hours ago, firedog said:

If you just want to apply convolution/filtering to your listening when traveling,  the easy way to do that is through playback software, probably on a laptop.

That does sound convenient.  I don't usually travel with a laptop though.  Is there a mobile app you recommend?  (Yes, I'm being vague about platform - I expect to replace my phone soon anyway and this would be an important factor.)

 

Are convolution filters portable?  If I make one for my ears and headphones, can I run it on whatever computer or phone I happen to be near or does each app lock you into its own system?

 

Thanks!

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Andrew Canadian said:

That does sound convenient.  I don't usually travel with a laptop though.  Is there a mobile app you recommend?  (Yes, I'm being vague about platform - I expect to replace my phone soon anyway and this would be an important factor.)

 

Are convolution filters portable?  If I make one for my ears and headphones, can I run it on whatever computer or phone I happen to be near or does each app lock you into its own system?

 

Thanks!

Some playback software allows playback with the use of convolution filters and other playback software isn't setup to allow it's use. You have to check the specific software.

The filters are portable if your software allows their use. Different apps can require different formats for the convolution filter, but you can usually convert the filter between formats as needed.

As far as mobile apps, that's not my area of expertise. Ask others what mobile apps they use to drive headphones with convolution filters. 

[kravi4ka]

It is not as simple as correcting the FR :( it is quite different if the loss affects the frequencies between 1-3kHz or the highs or the lows, it is very very complicated and seemingly small decrease in certain areas small can affect cognitive abilities and speech understanding. Hearing is the sense that delivers most of the information about the surrounding world and a dead person is considered worse than a blind one. I would suggest a visit to a doctor before you do anything else.