Good XLR pre's with RCA input options?

[davide256]

I am wondering  what the best choices are in an XLR pre around a $1K price point?  Freya S seems to be a fit

but I'm not familiar with the pros and cons of XLR choices in market.

Need at least 2 RCA+ 2 XLR inputs + remote to XLR out.

Will be connecting a turntable and   DAC initially which use RCA , and plan to eventually change electronics to XLR devices,

Connected amps are Orchard Audio GaN mono blocks.

[Kal Rubinson]

In addition to the various Freyas, consider also the Topping Pre90 with the EXT90.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-freya-line-preamplifier

https://www.stereophile.com/content/topping-pre90-line-preamplifier

[Rexp]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AYGmLtWPrmmCgPD6zcIbjQxzIHzChfhV/view

 

Did you see the Absolute Sound review of your amps, seems like Dick Olsher used single ended preamps.

[davide256]

4 hours ago, Rexp said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AYGmLtWPrmmCgPD6zcIbjQxzIHzChfhV/view

 

Did you see the Absolute Sound review of your amps, seems like Dick Olsher used single ended preamps.

Not sure I follow?  Read the article, only comment I could find was that it worked well with tube pre's  which turned out not well with my LTA MZ2 as pre

solely because the loss of resolution vs a passive Schiit SYS pre was glaring.

 

The pre amps listed  in his review were Manley Jumbo Shrimp (tubes/RCA ), a Wavebourn pre that isn't findable on the internet and a 2003 kit built

Blue Velvet pre so none of these are viable for me.

[Rexp]

13 hours ago, davide256 said:

Not sure I follow?  Read the article, only comment I could find was that it worked well with tube pre's  which turned out not well with my LTA MZ2 as pre

solely because the loss of resolution vs a passive Schiit SYS pre was glaring.

 

The pre amps listed  in his review were Manley Jumbo Shrimp (tubes/RCA ), a Wavebourn pre that isn't findable on the internet and a 2003 kit built

Blue Velvet pre so none of these are viable for me.

Just an FYI.

[davide256]

It's taken a while but I've gravitated back to the MZ2 for pre. It may lose detail compared to SYS passive pre but its easier on the ear and harmonics

just sound more natural. Looks like I have to add tubes as a requirement, sad to say LTA doesn't offer XLR output so will have to shop other manufacturers

for a next pre.

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

It's taken a while but I've gravitated back to the MZ2 for pre. It may lose detail compared to SYS passive pre but its easier on the ear and harmonics

just sound more natural. Looks like I have to add tubes as a requirement, sad to say LTA doesn't offer XLR output so will have to shop other manufacturers

for a next pre.

 

I auditioned a MicroZOTL Pre in my system and I really liked it but the lack of balanced outputs is what made me look elsewhere as well.

 

Maybe if you talk to Ralph he will turn one of the tape in and outs into a stereo input, on the Atma-Sphere MP-3

 

http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/mp-3.html

 

edit:  In fact I see this on the webpage

"- XLR connectors for phono and auxiliary inputs (paralleled RCA inputs optional)"

 

Edit 2: This is what I am using now and I really like it. A lot.

[Rexp]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

It's taken a while but I've gravitated back to the MZ2 for pre. It may lose detail compared to SYS passive pre but its easier on the ear and harmonics

just sound more natural. Looks like I have to add tubes as a requirement, sad to say LTA doesn't offer XLR output so will have to shop other manufacturers

for a next pre.

Your tube pre is likely filtering out some noise created by your digital source/source material. Best swap in your turntable to see if noise still there, if not, your digital source is at fault.

[davide256]

10 hours ago, Rexp said:

Your tube pre is likely filtering out some noise created by your digital source/source material. Best swap in your turntable to see if noise still there, if not, your digital source is at fault.

I don't think buying these recordings on vinyl is an option... sad to say there is a lot of music at 44/16 recorded after 1985 that really needs remastering due

to digital artifacts.

[Rexp]

25 minutes ago, davide256 said:

I don't think buying these recordings on vinyl is an option... sad to say there is a lot of music at 44/16 recorded after 1985 that really needs remastering due

to digital artifacts.

True, I actually prefer to listen on my car radio to some music as the digital artifacts are less noticeable. But if you're spending decent money you deserve high end sound, even if it means ditching some less than good recordings.

[davide256]

 

1 hour ago, Rexp said:

True, I actually prefer to listen on my car radio to some music as the digital artifacts are less noticeable. But if you're spending decent money you deserve high end sound, even if it means ditching some less than good recordings.

I did order 2 albums last week in vinyl so that I could do some relatively recent material comparisons to CD rate. One is a fairly obnoxious Harry Potter sound track anthology

from Silva Screen/Prague Symphony at CD rate, curious to see if vinyl improves anything. Of course the master is likely digital also, just higher rate. Also ordered vinyl used copy

of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", CD version of that isn't bad, will see how the vinyl compares, with a 1977 release date I know the master is analog.

 

[Rexp]

8 hours ago, davide256 said:

 

I did order 2 albums last week in vinyl so that I could do some relatively recent material comparisons to CD rate. One is a fairly obnoxious Harry Potter sound track anthology

from Silva Screen/Prague Symphony at CD rate, curious to see if vinyl improves anything. Of course the master is likely digital also, just higher rate. Also ordered vinyl used copy

of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", CD version of that isn't bad, will see how the vinyl compares, with a 1977 release date I know the master is analog.

 

Thats the beauty of Tidal/Qobuz you can try before you buy. The sound of Hedwigs Theme is better on this album for example:

 

[davide256]

On 5/22/2022 at 11:24 PM, AudioDoctor said:

 

I auditioned a MicroZOTL Pre in my system and I really liked it but the lack of balanced outputs is what made me look elsewhere as well.

 

Maybe if you talk to Ralph he will turn one of the tape in and outs into a stereo input, on the Atma-Sphere MP-3

 

http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/mp-3.html

 

edit:  In fact I see this on the webpage

"- XLR connectors for phono and auxiliary inputs (paralleled RCA inputs optional)"

 

Edit 2: This is what I am using now and I really like it. A lot.

Nice, another transformer-less tube pre!

IME transformers are what cause the extreme variation in tube "euphonics" and slower transients. The MZ2 was the first tube solution I've ever had

that didn't have exaggerated tone color changes from tube swapping, it's also a transformer-less solution.

[AudioDoctor]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

Nice, another transformer-less tube pre!

IME transformers are what cause the extreme variation in tube "euphonics" and slower transients. The MZ2 was the first tube solution I've ever had

that didn't have exaggerated tone color changes from tube swapping, it's also a transformer-less solution.

 

It definitely is the transformers, someone will correct me if I am wrong, but a transformer is how McIntosh gets their solid state amps to sound the way they do.

[davide256]

On 5/13/2022 at 2:06 PM, Kal Rubinson said:

In addition to the various Freyas, consider also the Topping Pre90 with the EXT90.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-freya-line-preamplifier

https://www.stereophile.com/content/topping-pre90-line-preamplifier

Ok pulled the trigger  on a Pre90.

Of all things, using a Cayin RU6 R2R dongle with 4.4mm to XLR cable straight into XLR of class D Orchard Audio  mono blocks convinced me to go XLR for pre.

Doing a side by side compare of the 3.5mm -- RCA output --XLR converter vs 4.4mm -- XLR into the mono blocks was quite helpful.

Irritants I'd been unable to eliminate using RCA pre/ RCA DAC direct to XLR converter disappeared with balanced mode  and details just popped better

 

[davide256]

@Kal Rubinson It appears the Pre 90 could enable a 3rd use besides input switching and remote volume control. Since both RCA and XLR output can be active at same

time  one should be able to run main speaker amplification off the XLR output and active subwoofer pair off the RCA output.

Wondering if you have experimented with this?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have not because it is easier for me to do bass management in the digital domain before the signals get to the Pre90s.  I do use it, as you do, to convert the balanced sub output to unbalanced where needed.

[davide256]

So have lived with the Pre 90 for about 3 weeks now. Its far "faster" that the LTA MZ2 and flatter response at the frequency extremes. Was hearing

more coarseness and irritants than with using the MZ2 but that's (mostly) turned out to be the Mogami XLR cables I was using between pre and amp,

have subbed in Wireworld Equinox RCA off the RCA out of the Pre 90 with some RCA to XLR converters at the amp end and

things got a lot more listenable. Will be ordering  Equinox XLR's so I can do an A/B comparison of RCA vs XLR output within the limits of my setup.

The MZ2 remains harmonically sweeter than the Pre90 but on balance its more interesting to listen using the Pre90

[Joerg D]

Hello,

I recommend the Preamp 40 from Abacus. Solidly built with good sound and a lot of input and output. XLR and RCA. The device is available in black and white.

 

https://www.abacus-electronics.de/produkte/vorverstarker/preamp-14/preamp-14.html

 

Joerg

 

[davide256]

So after 60 days of living with the Topping, I've decided that on balance the Microzotl 2 is musically superior to the Topping Pre90.

 

Topping Pre90 behaves better at frequency extremes, has harder transients, is very clean and includes a remote in base price.

But the Linear Tube Audio Microzotl 2 is easier on the ear and far clearer on layered instruments... its solves the "3 body" problem well whereas

the Pre90 tends to obscure the 3rd body ( lowest volume counterpoint instrument).

 

 

 

 

[DuckToller]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

So after 60 days of living with the Topping, I've decided that on balance the Microzotl 2 is musically superior to the Topping Pre90.

 

Topping Pre90 behaves better at frequency extremes, has harder transients, is very clean and includes a remote in base price.

But the Linear Tube Audio Microzotl 2 is easier on the ear and far clearer on layered instruments... its solves the "3 body" problem well whereas

the Pre90 tends to obscure the 3rd body ( lowest volume counterpoint instrument).

 

 

 

 

Nice to read an educated guess on the frontline of exeptional objective results vs. personal perception in real life.
Thank you that, David!

[davide256]

18 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Nice to read an educated guess on the frontline of exeptional objective results vs. personal perception in real life.
Thank you that, David!

 

"easy to listen to" vs better dynamics/transients/frequency range  are differences one could readily hear after purchase,

but the subtractive difference in layering required focused vs passive listening, swapping pre's  on the same passages

in January to be sure something was lost with the Pre90. I rarely have to work this hard figuring out which piece of gear I prefer.

 

[davide256]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:49 PM, davide256 said:

So after 60 days of living with the Topping, I've decided that on balance the Microzotl 2 is musically superior to the Topping Pre90.

 

Topping Pre90 behaves better at frequency extremes, has harder transients, is very clean and includes a remote in base price.

But the Linear Tube Audio Microzotl 2 is easier on the ear and far clearer on layered instruments... its solves the "3 body" problem well whereas

the Pre90 tends to obscure the 3rd body ( lowest volume counterpoint instrument).

 

 

 

 

Was going to sell the Pre90 but I have realized that the Orchard Audio GaN mono blocks are biasing my preference. They are a better amp than what I have owned

before but in the upper treble its sounds like certain sounds (Enya, LOTR choral passages, passages in Close Encounters of the Third Kind) excite 3rd order harmonics.

The MZ2  does a better job damping this but thats not necessarily the right path to better sound.