fas42 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 14 hours ago, Iving said: But you weren't there. Chris was. But you weren't. And YT is no substitute. Talking of Nagra at Munich, 2022 ... Luckily, Chris bypassed that 'orrible YT "crap", Quote Here is an iPhone video clip of My Romance from Gene Ammons. The track sounded stunning, even though I was far from the sweet spot for this one. I could've listened to this entire album without moving. The sound was realistic, enveloping, and captivating. You see, you listen for what the playback is getting wrong ... not what it's getting right - if there are no audible flaws, then you are in pretty good territory ... Link to comment
kumakuma Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 17 minutes ago, fas42 said: Which brings us back to, "why you can't trust measurements" ... what use is acquiring a set of numbers, if it's almost of no value in deciding whether a particular component will be acceptable or not, in the flesh? Yes, using an objective tool for a subjective criteria like acceptability makes little sense... botrytis 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Popular Post Allan F Posted August 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2022 9 hours ago, fas42 said: This is the nub of it. If I get a cheap transistor radio, put almost dead batteries in it, and turn up the volume to maximum, "everybody" would agree it's distorting. In ambitious, high end rigs the current reality is there is strong disagreement about whether it's distorting - purely because it's a matter of degree. The miserable radio is at one end of the scale; the expensive high end rig is towards the other end ... The rub of what, for pete's sake? If you don't understand the meaning of "objective" as contemplated by this forum by now, you apparently never will. It's not "a matter of degree". It is not a continuum. The "everybody agrees" example is simply an exceptional one where measurable factual data may not be necessary in order for it to be considered "objective" or of "objective flavour" as described by @Iving. There is no point in continuing with this waste of bandwidth. kumakuma, botrytis and Iving 2 1 "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Iving Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Allan F said: The rub of what, for pete's sake? ... There is no point in continuing with this waste of bandwidth. crepuscular pseudo-alfa ultimumbler (cpu) syndrome Link to comment
fas42 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 I've experienced the bizarre world of audiophile double think for too long, with regard to what they focus on when they listen, to be fussed about where they want to draw the line on the concept of "being objective" - if you're happy with your take on the matter, then all's good with the world ... . Link to comment
kumakuma Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, fas42 said: I've experienced the bizarre world of audiophile double think for too long, with regard to what they focus on when they listen, to be fussed about where they want to draw the line on the concept of "being objective" - if you're happy with your take on the matter, then all's good with the world ... . Posts like this beg the question why you spend so much time and energy posting to a forum full of folks you consider to be bizarre... and vice versa... Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
fas42 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, kumakuma said: Posts like this beg the question why you spend so much time and energy posting to a forum full of folks you consider to be bizarre... and vice versa... Logic 101 ... I've met some audiophiles who had bizarre thinking; therefore, all audiophiles have bizarre thinking ... Luckily, in the presence of exceptional SQ there seems to be general agreement that it's at least acceptable - the frothing at the mouth normally occurs with discussions of how to get this. Link to comment
botrytis Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 38 minutes ago, fas42 said: Logic 101 ... I've met some audiophiles who had bizarre thinking; therefore, all audiophiles have bizarre thinking ... Luckily, in the presence of exceptional SQ there seems to be general agreement that it's at least acceptable - the frothing at the mouth normally occurs with discussions of how to get this. 🤦♂️ pot to kettle here 🤦 Jeff_N 1 Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Confused Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Can we measure Frank? botrytis 1 Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Jeff_N Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 6 hours ago, Confused said: Can we measure Frank? Please no. Link to comment
botrytis Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, Jeff_N said: Please no. Me thinks imaginary numbers would be involved..... Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Allan F Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Confused said: Can we measure Frank? If so, presumably only to "a matter of degree". kumakuma 1 "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
botrytis Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Allan F said: If so, presumably only to "a matter of degree". Like this? Allan F 1 Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Popular Post Josh Mound Posted August 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2022 On 7/31/2022 at 7:09 PM, fas42 said: Enthusiastic audiophiles are seen by most to be in the same category as model train buffs - a peculiar bunch of people who spend lots of money on something that is of little relevance to anything else in life, apart from the pleasure of fiddling with things. No-one spends any time, energy, or money analysing the bigger picture in model trains - and the same applies in audio. Neil Young would like a word! https://lemelson.mit.edu/resources/neil-young botrytis and fas42 2 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
Iving Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, JoshM said: Neil Young would like a word! https://lemelson.mit.edu/resources/neil-young as would Rod Stewart! Josh Mound 1 Link to comment
Confused Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 They are all at it! https://railwaytraveller.com/inspiration/celebrity-tips/the-unlikely-celebrities-who-are-huge-model-train-hobbyists https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/23/im-proud-to-be-called-a-nerd-the-pop-and-rock-greats-who-love-model-railways Josh Mound 1 Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Confused Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 5 hours ago, botrytis said: Me thinks imaginary numbers would be involved..... fas = square root 2? Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
fas42 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Do you want to measure the interesting bits - or the boring stuff? Link to comment
fas42 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 I went through a solid model train enthusiasm phase, when very young - Kleinbahn, from Austria. Current stuff gets pretty amazing, but you need deep pockets to do it properly ... another lifetime, perhaps ... Link to comment
Confused Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 9 hours ago, fas42 said: Do you want to measure the interesting bits - or the boring stuff? Both, we need an interesting bits to boring stuff ratio. (IB/BSr) botrytis 1 Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
LucasZ Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 1:07 AM, GoldenOne said: I figured this may be something worth starting a dedicated thread for. There are all sorts of reasons as to why measurements may be unreliable, misleading, confusing, or just inconsistent. And I've made a video discussing some of these topics. Interesting watch, thanks. On a related note, I think it would be fun to measure "cherry picked" review units from certain manufacturers, to confirm or debunk that myth. Link to comment
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