Audirvana Origin

[RunHomeSlow]

When you are in Artist View just click once to Gil Evans for example and show Info panel... it is surely Sorted as: Artist The

You will have to put Gil Evans, and then, it will be place right and it will be right in Albums view also.

 

When badly sorted Artists always be there in that order... you see the good name, but they are Sorted As: Artist The 

[Dandou]

51 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

t is surely Sorted as: Artist The

You will have to put Gil Evans, and then, it will be place right and it will be right in Albums view also.

You are right, Origin sorts Gil Evans as "Artist The". 

 

 

By why Origin does that? 

I did not sort the albums of "Gil Evans" as "Gil Evans, The" in the "Sort Artist" tag nor in the "Sort Album Artist" tag. 

Actually, there's no input at all in these tags for the albums of Gil Evans, as you can see in Yate. 

 

 

 

Should I check thousands of albums and fix manually the sorting errors that Origin introduced to its database? 

 

 

 

 

 

[RunHomeSlow]

When field left blank, put: Artist The there?

 

you don't have many to repair...

i add like 300+ Artists that were added when DeadBrainz thing was on, at first...

all repaired now, but like i said, the messed up ones will always be in the same position in your Artists list...

For me, they always appearing between Arthur Brown and Ash Ra Tempel, so easy to spot them. But it never happen now.

Database always saved as today backup, when i add something new.

 

 

[Dandou]

38 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

you don't have many to repair...

 

38 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

the messed up ones will always be in the same position in your Artists list...

The screenshots that I posted are not the only ones of messed artists. 

There are plenty of sorting errors like that. 

Here in "DSD View", what the albums of Cream have to do between Eric Bibb and Eric Kunzel? 

 

 

 

 

Only to find all these errors in my library that counts over 140K tracks will require me to spend a few weekends on this task. 

[Jud]

15 minutes ago, Dandou said:

 

The screenshots that I posted are not the only ones of messed artists. 

There are plenty of sorting errors like that. 

Here in "DSD View", what the albums of Cream have to do between Eric Bibb and Eric Kunzel? 

 

 

 

 

Only to find all these errors in my library that counts over 140K tracks will require me to spend a few weekends on this task. 

 

"Albums" are shown for multiple artists who appear on an album as songwriters, for example.  So perhaps there are tracks on these Cream albums credited to artists (or one particular artist?) whose names appear in the alphabet between the Erics.

[Dandou]

22 minutes ago, Jud said:

So perhaps there are tracks on these Cream albums credited to artists (or one particular artist?) whose names appear in the alphabet between the Erics.

It's not the case. 

Here are my three DSD albums of Cream as displayed in Yate. These are the same albums of the screenshot from Origin. 

On all their tracks, the "Artist" tag and the "Album Artist" tag are simply credited to "Cream". 

 

 

[One and a half]

11 hours ago, Dandou said:

In tracks view, the duration, the bit-depth, and the frequency columns display nothing.  

Oh dear.

 

Attributes are no problem when playing or listed as tracks. I did NOT do anything special to show.  Surely this data is from the file itself?

 

 

This window is a plugin from dbpoweramp in File Explorer. So not sure which data comes from what part of the file.

 

[Dandou]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

This window is a plugin from dbpoweramp in File Explorer. So not sure which data comes from what part of the file.

You run the Windows version of Origin. I run the macOS M1 version.

I did nothing to prevent the player from displaying the attributes of the tracks. 

They do have a duration, a bit-depth and a bit-rate, and I also have other software that can display their attributes.

[RunHomeSlow]

Everything in Studio or Origin is complicated, not easy to understand why that was made like it is...

why in Album view you see all your Group album in first to last album... in Tree view or folder view you see them first to last, but if you click Zappa in Artist view, there they are last to first??? and that view can't be change!!!

 

Your Cream are messed up because they might be related in the 'Artist The' bug... bug for us, but not for Audirvana...

Like @Jud said you have certainly more Artist in that field... not because of you or other soft, but how Audirvana

interpret or show you those...

 

i didn't want to explain all that because it was a nightmare for me and not sure remember all i found to cure those messed up artist tag like Prince is attribute to Jimi Hendrix, because of Purple!!! :)

 

So, first thing is to change the sorting in Artist View like i said... they will all be standing in alphabetly order... between Art...

 

When i saw at first launch of Studio with the musicbrainz thing, it add a lot of Artists i never saw in my PERFECT library...

after many hours, i understand that they were always list because they have the sort name 'Artist The' WRONGLY add in my tag.

 

So, now it is done, you are stuck with them... Audirvana list them like that.

YOU have to tag them again, whatever other tag editor you use, they are like that in Audirvana...

 

So, clicking that first artist you don't know one time. and see the tag editor, you see that they are Sorted to 'Artist The'...

for me, if i remember even changing the sort name to the real name as intended, and hit save button...

didn't change or save for real??? yes another bug in Audirvana...

 

so, then i click that album to see all its tracks and select them all then see tag editor panel and see that instead of Cream group there was under Cream or overit in Artist filed... three other names??? the composer or whatever... have to delete them and hit save to Cream alone... and then the album was rightly order... like i said, try to just sort the couples you have there in Artist View, then you'll see that cream will be cured and other too in other list...

 

Looking at faulty DSD list or Genre list will always show Wrong order if the Artist or Album Artist is not right or the same in Audirvana... don't bother if they are rightly tag in other software... you are here now...

[RunHomeSlow]

Someone poste a thread in Audirvana forum about the release date that appeared when you see the tracks of an album...

 

Thought it was cool to see the date there... so i found that many album didn't have that date there...

so i put all the one that didn't have one, to found the next morning, nothing stayed there... field was all empty like before???

except that, i found after many hours that all years before 1970, 1969, 1968 year didn't stick, again, have to put that year and save...

think now, it had to be put three times and then it stick there... 1971, 1972, 1973, 2000, 2010 were all good, just under 1970 will not stick first time and second.

 

So now, when i had a new album.... i put the year there in the tag '1968' hit save... go back to recently added list to that album and select it again... then, change the cover that i want that reside in the CD folder and save... bang, the year release disappear...,

put 1968 in the field and save again.... go back to the list recently added and put tag editor to see if date still there... finish, sync library, close Audirvana, copy Database to desktop, reopen Audirvana, play a song and enjoy... at the end of the day... if all looks good, close Audirvana again, copy database .sqlite and all preferences now 4 of them... and backed them up as today database...

 

 

[RunHomeSlow]

This is complaining about Audirvana, but same with JRiver

 

that soft cannot show me the same number of albums like in Audirvana, because JRiver take albums name 'LIVE' as one even if i have 5 album by different group named 'LIVE'... so now... i know that i have to add to JRiver albums count, 48 albums, and it matches Audirvana perfectly count, thought at first that Audirvana was the guilty one here :)

but the 2 softwares know that i have exactly the same number of tracks :)  so, JRiver is bad there.

 

One day, i can open perfectly save database and prefs in JRiver and all my covers and tracks view will all be stretch

to BIGGER view, or could be resized to SMALL fields and covers view... nothing is perfect everywhere.

 

Backups rules everywhere!!

[Jud]

Is File Location a sort criterion for albums in Origin? Don’t know about others, but I have artists sorted into individual folders alphabetically, so using File Location as the first sort criterion would take care of album order if you have your artists arranged into folders this way.

[Dandou]

5 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

i didn't want to explain all that because it was a nightmare for me and not sure remember all i found to cure those messed up artist tag like Prince is attribute to Jimi Hendrix, because of Purple!!! :)

Maybe it makes sense in "Audio Book", the Japanese version of the player that works with ideograms, and from which Origin was derivate? 

 

5 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

i understand that they were always list because they have the sort name 'Artist The' WRONGLY add in my tag.

Is there a way to filter in a playlist all these albums that Origin wrongly tagged "Artist The" in order to fix their tags? 

 

5 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

for me, if i remember even changing the sort name to the real name as intended, and hit save button...

didn't change or save for real??? yes another bug in Audirvana...

If so, how do you fix this tag? 

 

5 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

so, then i click that album to see all its tracks and select them all then see tag editor panel and see that instead of Cream group there was under Cream or overit in Artist filed... three other names??? the composer or whatever... have to delete them and hit save to Cream alone...

I posted how these albums as displayed in Yate.

There's nothing in their "composer" tag, and the "Artist" and "Album Artist" tags are all credited only to Cream. 

 

4 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

i found after many hours that all years before 1970, 1969, 1968 year didn't stick, again, have to put that year and save...

This must be the fault of the well known year 1970 bug. 😜

 

4 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

put 1968 in the field and save again.... go back to the list recently added and put tag editor to see if date still there... finish, sync library, close Audirvana, copy Database to desktop, reopen Audirvana, play a song and enjoy...

I don't understand what is the benefit of copying the database to the Desktop Folder. Its usual place is in the "Application Support" folder inside the "Library" folder. 

 

Anyway, thank you very much, @RunHomeSlow, for being helpful, and for the detailed instructions. 

 

[Dandou]

4 hours ago, Jud said:

Is File Location a sort criterion for albums in Origin? Don’t know about others, but I have artists sorted into individual folders alphabetically, so using File Location as the first sort criterion would take care of album order if you have your artists arranged into folders this way.

Yes, this is a practical feature, and it's good that Audirvana added it to the player. 

 

Unfortunately, it's not really useful for the albums of classical music. 

[bodiebill]

To avoid such annoyances (due to 'intelligent' SW deciding for you on the tags and presentation), I neatly maintain my folders and filenames and only browse per folder in AO: see icon next to 'Library' for folders view.  

 

It also works well for Classical in my case, but this is because in my library a classical Album is not the commercial issue but work-performance-based and derived from the folder names and structure:

 

Classical

   Modern

      Feldman, Morton (1926-1987)

         (1960) Durations 1 for alto flute, piano, violin & cello_Ens Avantgarde_1994

 

JRiver automatically derives the custom tags .Genre, .Period, .Composer, .WorkDate, .Work, .Artist, .PerfDate from this. The dot indicates a calculated field (tag). No further tagging needed on my behalf. Of course AO can make no sense of this, so there folder browsing it is. 

[Dandou]

20 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

in my library a classical Album is not the commercial issue but work-performance-based and derived from the folder names and structure

It will be very difficult for me to do the same. 

For instance, if I take a box set of Glenn Gould, there's a logic in the way the tracks are ordered. The player should allow me to sort them by composer and by work, if I want, instead of moving them to other locations on the drive. 

 

And if the album is a recital, there's a musical sense in the order in which the tracks were recorded, regardless of their composers. 

 

[bodiebill]

22 minutes ago, Dandou said:

And if the album is a recital, there's a musical sense in the order in which the tracks were recorded, regardless of their composers. 

 

Agreed. Still I prefer to let the composer/work prevail over the performers' decisions. And if I want to play a recital in the performer's order, I can make a playlist to do that.

[bodiebill]

Neither do I follow the commercial format for Jazz: an 'Album' for me is a session, defined by a specific date and main performer:

 

Jazz

   Bob Brookmeyer

      19581023 Kansas City Revisited

 

From this JRiver automatically derives the custom tags .Genre, .ArtistMain, .PerfDate and .Album.

Often one commercial album consists of multiple sessions.

For jazz I do add the other performers manually in the normal Artist tag.

 

So for Jazz the performers do prevail :-)

 

 

[Dandou]

I understand the logic of what you do, but it's time-consuming. 

For instance, I have three Box Sets of all the Cantatas of Bach, by three different performers. There are some 250 works in each Box Set. And each Cantata is made of many tracks. 

To group the tracks of these Box Sets on the drive in order to sort them in folders by Cantata would require a lot of work. 

[bodiebill]

51 minutes ago, Dandou said:

I understand the logic of what you do, but it's time-consuming. 

For instance, I have three Box Sets of all the Cantatas of Bach, by three different performers. There are some 250 works in each Box Set. And each Cantata is made of many tracks. 

To group the tracks of these Box Sets on the drive in order to sort them in folders by Cantata would require a lot of work. 

 

You are very right! It is not for everyone. I put in a lot of work, but I enjoy the fruits every day. For instance I can order a composer's work chronologically on composition date (using a relational field in JRiver) and get a better feel for his/her development. For instance Bach's, where the BWV numbers are not chronological themselves. I also add work ratings (in addition to performance ratings). And it becomes very easy to compare different performances of the same work. And to see what still is missing. Etc.

 

And there are some helpful (renaming and otherwise) tools to do all this.

[Dandou]

What you do is very interesting indeed. 

I would keep a copy of the original albums on a drive, and sort them in folders, like you do, on another drive, in order to be able to easily retrieve the original structure of the CDs, if I want. 

 

Apple promised us a player that is specially designed for classical music, and it will be released very soon. 

It will be interesting to see how they will handle the special requirements of a library of classical music, but I'm afraid that their player will not support FLAC and DSF. 

[bodiebill]

Interesting. I have looked at many SW players/databases but find JRiver the most versatile in terms of database management. Almost everything is programmable. For sound I just play with a different player (PAP, APlayer or AO).

 

Of course there are several approaches to music library management:

(1) disciplined tagging and forget about the folder/filename structure

(2) disciplined folder/filename structure and forget about the tagging (the one I described above)

(3) just rip or download and forget everything

 

I feel that (3) will create a mess, but (1) and (2) are both valid routes.

[Dandou]

I follow the disciplined tagging approach for classical music. And I also appreciate the management features of JRiver. That's why I use it. 

 

Audirvana Plus were very good players for the management of classical music up to version 3.2. You may not know them, because they existed only for macOS.

They had columns view that offered even more options than the one of JRiver, and they had filtering features for the playlists. I don't know why Audirvana removed columns view from its latest players. 

 

I still have Audirvana Plus 3.2 on my laptop, but I can not post screenshots of this nice player, because I don't have it in hand. 

 

[RunHomeSlow]

5 hours ago, Dandou said:

I don't understand what is the benefit of copying the database to the Desktop Folder. Its usual place is in the "Application Support" folder inside the "Library" folder. 

 

mine is also in the default place...

dragging it out with 'option' key makes a copy on the desktop. It is just for a backup...

i put it in a folder after named 180422 as for today date... if a bug happen for whatever reason, i just close Audirvana and put the latest backup in the database place and restart Audirvana.

 

Now All is good for me but this Christmas was a nightmare... i changed my 2 hard drive for bigger ones, Audirvana was messing things up with the musicbrainz, sometimes Volume/ was added to my files in the path of file location of Audirvana making ghost files that you couldn't delete, so i learned to keep several database copy over a month when i play with tags in Audirvana :) then  when i have enough or pretty sure all is still good, i delete the oldest backups, but i never trust for sure Audirvana :)

 

For the 'Artist The' tag i was just pointing that it could be a 2 steps to get ride of 'Artist The' in Artist tag... when info on an album without selecting or selecting all tracks from that album and see if there is many names added to the tag.

 

this was added then by musicbrainz, but now those 2 options are off for me, but that doesn't exist anymore with Origin. But with Studio if you start fresh a new database for example or you trash your preferences, Studio will still put ON the first musicbrainz option... you have to check back if they are all at off before syncing a folder, never easy.

[matthias]

Why do people who want to stream get the penalty of a subscription model with Audirvana and people who want to organize their library can buy the software?

 

This is beyond my understanding and doesn't make sense at all.

 

What about Audirvana Origin for streaming only and not for local files, that would be something nice.......:-)

 

Matt