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Many thanks to @seeteeyoufor pointing out this app.

It enables one to play native Tidal/Qobuz apps etc on your mobile device to DLNA receivers (in my case a laptop with Foobar upnp installed). Not sure if any transcoding takes place, perhaps someone that has a DAC with sampling rate/bit depth display can try it, there is a free trial.

 

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Looks like the old AirAudio app has returned under a new name. You used to require a rooted Android device (& a bit of luck with the app supporting the device's specific hardware) to avoid the horrible lower quality microphone input audio capture. However, the new version also seems to support the audio playback capture API introduced in Android 10, so it appears there's no need now for the device to be rooted.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a new enough Android device to test the app with (or a rooted one). Presumably your device is an Android 10+ one. BTW, foobar2000's status bar is definitely capable of displaying the playing audio's bit depth & sample rate - so no need to refer to a DAC's display for that.   

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Everything being played at the CD-res of 16bit/44.1kHz makes sense, as that is likely to be the base/native audio resolution of your Android device. However, the 1411kbps bitrate reading (presumably on foobar2000's status bar) merely indicates that the Android device's captured audio is being streamed over the network as uncompressed PCM, ie, either as raw LPCM or in an uncompressed file container format such as WAV.

 

As far as audio fidelity is concerned, you still have the question of the Android system audio capture being performed by the AirMusic app, on the audio output of an audio playing app (such as the Qobuz app or the TIDAL app), itself being bit perfect. One relatively simple bit perfect test is to use known HDCD music tracks as the audio source and observe if the audio is being detected as such at the receiver end - the same methodology outlined by @The Computer Audiophile's article mentioning the testing of Apple Music app's played tracks' audio received via AirPlay:

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My bit perfect testing consists of a Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3 that identifies and decodes HDCD on all sample rates from 44.1 up through 192 kHz. When an unaltered HDCD music track is played, the HDCD indicator on the DAC is illuminated. The HDCD flag is on the 16th bit for lossless CD files and the 24th bit for high resolution files. Any alteration, DSP, volume leveling, etc... changes this least significant bit and won't enable the HDCD indicator to illuminate on my DAC.

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With respect to source files, here's what I do. 
 
I have a list of roughly ten known HDCD albums (although I could use more if needed). Many of these albums were only released as HDCD encoded CDs/files. There is no alternate lossless version. For example, Reference Recordings only releases CDs that are HDCD encoded. Pearl Jam's Live On Two Legs was only released as an HDCD master for its lossless CD version.

 

 

Luckily, foobar2000 can detect (and decode) audio that is HDCD encoded - so you don't even have to use an HDCD supporting DAC (similar to the one mentioned by Chris in his article) for that purpose. You just need to install the foo_hdcd plugin and configure foobar2000's status bar to display an HDCD indicator (foo_hdcd's %__hdcd% HDCD status field is ideal for this):

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_hdcd

hydrogenaudio forums > foobar2000 > 3rd Party Plugins - (fb2k) > HDCD Decoder (foo_hdcd)

 

For example, appending the following foobar2000 Titleformat formatted text to the Status bar edit field in the Default User Interface's configuration settings will display '[HDCD]' as an indicator in foobar2000's status bar whenever the played audio is detected as being HDCD encoded (assuming the foo_hdcd plugin has also been installed):

 

$if($stricmp(%__hdcd%,yes),'[HDCD]  ',)

 

image.png.4f52655756f76da30ea240b6ace9e2f7.png

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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These guys only support Spotify and Apple Music but not sure if the latter one were lossy or lossless, their latest version was updated back in December 2021

 

https://www.radius.co.jp/en/app/neplayer/

Wfb8uyg.jpg

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.radius.neplayer_ver2

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- Added support for Apple Music

 

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Apple music is working with dac but not knowing if it is lossless or not.

 

While we still have stuff like BubbleUPnP / Linn Kazoo / LUMÏN etc. on Android, it's just a matter of how far they're willing to go in terms of staying up to date with the (ever-changing) integration of Qobuz / TIDAL.

 

Though we might also give LMS a try since both Qobuz and TIDAL are supported

 

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/finally-direct-streaming-from-android.235835/#post-3863086

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It all works as described above BUT I then decided to try Squeezeserver (LMS) on my i9 iMac and PiCorePlayer on the RPi. WOW, significantly better sound quality, very surprised at the magnitude of the improvement. Even Spotify (via the Spotty LMS plugin, for me a big plus point of LMS over Roon) now easily beats my previous best streaming source of Qobuz/local files played through Moode/RoipeeeXL.

 

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17 hours ago, Rexp said:

Re SQ using Tidal HiFi, it sounds better than upnp and LMS.

I don't see how that's possible. UPnP goes essentially from my router to my streamer. AirMusic goes from my router, through my phone, to my streamer. I tried AirMusic, streaming YouTube Music. It sounded awful. 

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity for reflection.” 
Bertrand Russell 

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3 hours ago, audiobomber said:

I don't see how that's possible. UPnP goes essentially from my router to my streamer. AirMusic goes from my router, through my phone, to my streamer. I tried AirMusic, streaming YouTube Music. It sounded awful. 

Youtube? lol. Best you try lossless 16/44.1

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On 4/23/2022 at 2:43 AM, Rexp said:

Youtube? lol. Best you try lossless 16/44.1

No, not YouTube, YouTube Music. Regular YouTube is 128kbps AAC. YouTube Music is 256kbps AAC, and comparable in sound quality to Spotify 320kbps MP3.

 

I expect most people who use AirMusic will be playing compressed music files. The YouTube Music app does not go through my LG G8 phone, the phone is strictly a controller. Casting from the phone is clearly inferior. Of course resampling YouTube Music from 48kHz to 44.1kHz in AirMusic didn't help. 

 

I didn't bother to listen to 16/44.1 files because I specifically wanted to try AirMusic with YouTube Music. I could try uncompressed files, but I'm absolutely certain that inserting a mobile phone between my network and exaSound renderer will only do harm. I don't see any potential benefit over the more direct connection via BubbleUPnP. A more interesting test would be AirMusic vs. the BubbleUPnP app in Cast mode.

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity for reflection.” 
Bertrand Russell 

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11 hours ago, audiobomber said:

No, not YouTube, YouTube Music. Regular YouTube is 128kbps AAC. YouTube Music is 256kbps AAC, and comparable in sound quality to Spotify 320kbps MP3.

 

I expect most people who use AirMusic will be playing compressed music files. The YouTube Music app does not go through my LG G8 phone, the phone is strictly a controller. Casting from the phone is clearly inferior. Of course resampling YouTube Music from 48kHz to 44.1kHz in AirMusic didn't help. 

 

I didn't bother to listen to 16/44.1 files because I specifically wanted to try AirMusic with YouTube Music. I could try uncompressed files, but I'm absolutely certain that inserting a mobile phone between my network and exaSound renderer will only do harm. I don't see any potential benefit over the more direct connection via BubbleUPnP. A more interesting test would be AirMusic vs. the BubbleUPnP app in Cast mode.

Wow you're so stuck in your theory you're not prepared to try it, shame.

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14 hours ago, Rexp said:

Wow you're so stuck in your theory you're not prepared to try it, shame.

OK, I tried it today. AirMusic did indeed do better with 44.1kHz zero compression FLAC than it did with 48kHZ YouTube Music. I also tried 24/88.2, which played back at 44.1. AirMusic was a clear step down in SQ compared to UPnP via BubbleUPnP. With Bubble, soundstage layering was better, sound was smoother, better bass and rhythmic drive.

 

This was not a surprise to me, given the different chains each went through:

AirMusic: wi-fi to LG G8 ThinQ, wi-fi to PlayPoint renderer

UPnP: wi-fi to range extender with LPS, CAT8 to EtherREGEN A side, B-side via Furutech LAN-8 cable to Playpoint.

 

I've uninstalled AirMusic. If for some reason I need to cast through my phone, I will do it via BubbleUPnP in Cast mode. I didn't bother to compare the two.

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity for reflection.” 
Bertrand Russell 

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1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

This was not a surprise to me, given the different chains each went through:

AirMusic: wi-fi to LG G8 ThinQ, wi-fi to PlayPoint renderer

UPnP: wi-fi to range extender with LPS, CAT8 to EtherREGEN A side, B-side via Furutech LAN-8 cable to Playpoint.

On further thought, that was wrong. Both systems go through the extender and ER. The only difference is the "mobile phone + AirMusic" vs. BubbleUPnP.

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity for reflection.” 
Bertrand Russell 

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8 hours ago, audiobomber said:

OK, I tried it today. AirMusic did indeed do better with 44.1kHz zero compression FLAC than it did with 48kHZ YouTube Music. I also tried 24/88.2, which played back at 44.1. AirMusic was a clear step down in SQ compared to UPnP via BubbleUPnP. With Bubble, soundstage layering was better, sound was smoother, better bass and rhythmic drive.

 

This was not a surprise to me, given the different chains each went through:

AirMusic: wi-fi to LG G8 ThinQ, wi-fi to PlayPoint renderer

UPnP: wi-fi to range extender with LPS, CAT8 to EtherREGEN A side, B-side via Furutech LAN-8 cable to Playpoint.

 

I've uninstalled AirMusic. If for some reason I need to cast through my phone, I will do it via BubbleUPnP in Cast mode. I didn't bother to compare the two.

We're using different phones, mine is a Vivo, Android 11, that could also be a factor..

 

Btw do you get gapless playback?

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14 hours ago, Rexp said:

We're using different phones, mine is a Vivo, Android 11, that could also be a factor..

Could be, but I'm skeptical. I am also on Android 11. The G8 is reputed to be one of the best sounding phones, due to the Quad DAC. Why would going through a non-audio optimized mobile phone be better than bypassing it?

14 hours ago, Rexp said:

Btw do you get gapless playback?

Sorry, can't say. I only had the free version and it started beeping after five minutes, so I only listened to singles.

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity for reflection.” 
Bertrand Russell 

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10 hours ago, audiobomber said:

 

Sorry, can't say. I only had the free version and it started beeping after five minutes, so I only listened to singles.

Sorry for confusion, I know AirMusic is gapless, I was asking about your upnp set up.

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2 hours ago, Rexp said:

Sorry for confusion, I know AirMusic is gapless, I was asking about your upnp set up.

Yes, BubbleUPnP is gapless.

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity for reflection.” 
Bertrand Russell 

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16 hours ago, Rexp said:

Sorry for confusion, I know AirMusic is gapless, I was asking about your upnp set up.

 

Technically, the AirMusic app is gapless indifferent - it'll depend on the app that's actually playing the music file tracks (and providing AirMusic with its captured audio output). You are only getting gapless with the AirMusic app because the Qobuz & TIDAL apps themselves are.

 

The exact same thing applies to the BubbleUPnP app when it's used with its Audio Cast feature. (as mentioned by its developer @bubbleguuumin his post above). Note that this has nothing to do with the BubbleUPnP app's better known function as that of a (gapless supporting) UPnP/DLNA controller app, as @audiobomberis normally using it for. 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Rexp said:

Unfortunately Bubble doesn't handle MQA so well so not ideal for me.

 

The BubbleUPnP app, when used in Audio Cast mode, 'handles MQA' (or more precisely, the TIDAL app's audio output when the TIDAL app is playing MQA file tracks), in the exact same way as the AirMusic app does.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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7 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Technically, the AirMusic app is gapless indifferent - it'll depend on the app that's actually playing the music file tracks (and providing AirMusic with its captured audio output). You are only getting gapless with the AirMusic app because the Qobuz & TIDAL apps themselves are.

 

The exact same thing applies to the BubbleUPnP app when it's used with its Audio Cast feature. (as mentioned by its developer @bubbleguuumin his post above). Note that this has nothing to do with the BubbleUPnP app's better known function as that of a (gapless supporting) UPnP/DLNA controller app, as @audiobomberis normally using it for. 

 

 

 

 

The BubbleUPnP app, when used in Audio Cast mode, 'handles MQA' (or more precisely, the TIDAL app's audio output when the TIDAL app is playing MQA file tracks), in the exact same way as the AirMusic app does.

Perhaps instead of telling about stuff I already know, you can use your vast knowledge and tell me about a upnp app I can use Tidal with that's gapless and handles MQA?

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Bit hard to tell what you already know, with imprecise phrases like "a upnp app", "I can use Tidal with", "that's gapless" and "handles MQA", not to mention "AirMusic is gapless".

 

My vast knowledge is telling me that it might be best to this time resist the temptation to second guess exactly what you are asking, so I can't really answer your question,

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/26/2022 at 11:13 PM, audiobomber said:

Could be, but I'm skeptical. I am also on Android 11. The G8 is reputed to be one of the best sounding phones, due to the Quad DAC. Why would going through a non-audio optimized mobile phone be better than bypassing it?

Sorry, can't say. I only had the free version and it started beeping after five minutes, so I only listened to singles.

Just tried it via Airplay to PC, it sounds better, more life to the music.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/2/2022 at 5:40 PM, Rexp said:

Just tried it via Airplay to PC, it sounds better, more life to the music.

There are various Airplay receiver apps for Windows but so far I found AirReceiver works best. Anyone interested can try for free.

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