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Windows PE as AUDIO OS


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Hello everyone, I start this new thread because I think that the topic is very interesting, and a little or no way used for our purposes, the computer audio for the enjoyment of music.

Over time I have observed that the audio quality of the PC is related to the number of processes that run on it and to the latency.

We all know that Windows Server has higher quality sound than Windows 10, and in Core mode even more, and if we also run it from RAM it increases much more.

These facts corroborate the above, as they are related to the number of processes that are executed in the OS while listening and with the latency, always lower in RAM.

To corroborate these statements I have checked how many processes are running on each OS (clean) mentioned above, and the results are as follows:

 

1. WINDOWS 10: 126 processes (104 applying Windows Debloater powereshell script and disabling Windows Defender)

2. WINDOWS SERVER 2019 GUI: 104 processes (with defender installed) (87 with defender uninstalled)

3. WINDOWS SERVER 2019 CORE *: 71 processes (54 with defender uninstalled) (*) with AppCompatibility FOD installed.

4. WINDOWS 10-11 PE: 27 processes.

 

It is curious to observe that the number of processes of Windows 10 debugged with Windows Debloater (104) coincides with that of Windows Server 2019 GUI

The advantage of this is that it allows us to uninstall Windows Defender, which I have not found a way to do in Windows 10. It can be deactivated, but not uninstalled, so the number of processes does not drop below 104, while in Server 2019 GUI it reaches 87 with Defender uninstalled, which is 17 processes less

 

We observe that as the number of processes decreases, the sound quality increases, from the latency aspect there is only one way to improve it, loading the OS in RAM memory.

This has several drawbacks, first of all, a large amount of RAM is required, at least enough to fit the OS we want to load, and that about something, since Windows requires at least 2 GB of free RAM to work, given the size Windows 10 is almost unthinkable to load it in RAM, we would need at least 32 GB, and only installing the essential audio applications and without a paging file, so as not to consume all the memory. The same happens with Windows Server 2019 in GUI mode, so we only have the option of Windows Server in CORE mode, as viable for loading in RAM, and at least we will need 16 GB, 8-10 for the OS and applications of audio and the rest for use by the system itself, without a paging file or with a 2 GB and fixed size file.

The problem with Server CORE is that it does not have a graphical interface, only a command line, so it is difficult to use if you do not have a minimum of basic computer knowledge, and it is uncomfortable. This can be partially solved by installing the AppCompatibility FOD, which provides a minimal GUI with explorer, and other small utilities such as diskmgr, devmgr, etc. that make operating the OS and accessing audio applications easier and more comfortable, but it has a cost in space, since it occupies about 700 MB.

Win10 PE SE only runs 27 processes !! so I wondered if that would not be the way to achieve higher audio quality, also with a graphical interface and occupying only 370-430 MB! (620-670 MB with applications and drivers installed).

 

Advantages of Windows 10 PE as Audio OS:

 

1. Size: WinXPE without apps occupies 429 MB (Win11XPE) or 370 MB in Win10XPE, no apps or drivers installed (which gives an idea of the size reduction of WinXPE, 10-15 times less than "Normal" Windows

2. Loading time in RAM: Obviously much less because it depends on the size, SERVER CORE 2019 weighs 8 GB, against 620-670 MB of Win10-11 PE.

3. Complete graphical interface, not capped as in Server Core 2019.

4. Number of running processes: 27 (can be reduced to 12 processes!! with discreet tuning) on Win10-11 PE versus 54 on Server Core 2019, exactly half.

5. Audio quality: It is clearly superior in Windows 10-11 PE compared to Server Core 2019, in all aspects.

6. RAM required for loading: Windows 10-11 PE only requires 2GB of RAM to run fully loaded on it, against at least 16GB of Server Core. 

 

Disadvantages of Win10 PE as Audio OS:

 

1. It is difficult to implement.

2. It is a volatile system so the changes are lost with the restart, because Microsoft has designed the system like this, the changes in the Windows PE registry evaporate when the machine is turned off.

3. It has no activation, and after 3 days of uninterrupted operation it turns off. This case is very unlikely, in general nobody is listening to music 3 days in a row. In theory, although suspending the "winlogon.exe" process this 72 hour limit is disabled.

 

Finally, I enclose this Guide in PDF format to create an "audiophile" Windows PE, valid for both Windows 10 and 11.
I hope it will be useful for everyone who wants to build a Windows PE Audiophile, both 11 and 10, it is valid for both.
I have tried to make it easy to read and I intend that anyone with a little computer knowledge and who is not an expert, can build their own audiophile Windows PE.

I encourage everyone to build one, 10, 11 or both, tune it up, and compare with what you have, and finally stick with the one you like best.
At the end of the day, what it is about is trying, experimenting and advancing in the achievement of our goals, neither more nor less than learning and enjoying music, and also learning.
I believe that all doubts and questions regarding the guide should be channeled through this thread, not through private messages, so we all learn.
A hug to all.
 
 
 

Windows 11 PE Audio Creation Guide SE.pdf

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As usual it really depends on what "easy" actually means, there's no way to add anything at all unless we're actually willing to unpack those *.exe files first.

 

In most cases 7-Zip should work fine

 

https://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/7-zip_portable

 

Sometimes we might need Universal Extractor 2 instead

 

https://github.com/Bioruebe/UniExtract2/releases/download/v2.0.0-rc.3/UniExtractRC3.zip

 

Here's something that might be useful

 

https://theoven.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=65

 

Or we could give either one a try

 

https://www.tenforums.com/software-apps/182581-win10xpe-build-your-own-rescue-media-2-a-41.html#post2355644

https://mega.nz/file/sj5iSJKL#XVijQr6hJaUkLLh_GF6IS96aiZ0SP-57B5dZ3bEmJ_Y

 

https://www.tenforums.com/software-apps/182581-win10xpe-build-your-own-rescue-media-2-a-47.html#post2362170

https://www.snappy-driver-installer.org/downloads/SDIO_1.12.1.740.zip

https://www.snappy-driver-installer.org/download-page/

 

Windows PE might not be for you if any of that were still too challenging.

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23 hours ago, tongpohmy said:

Hi all,any easy way to add asio driver {exe file}  to the wim or iso?

Hi, tongpohmy, to add any drivers or applications to WinPE, you must first apply the .wim file to a VHD or USB drive, and create a WinPE Flatboot, from here you can install drivers and applications as in a "normal" windows , although you will need to follow some additional steps, as described in the guide published in pdf format in the first post of this thread.

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  • 3 months later...

@samotc

 

Great lucid guide! I just PM-ed you but then saw that you refer to answer questions in this thread:

 

So may I bother you with a question? So far, Google searches could not provide me with the answer.

 

Using your guide I succeeded to get Win11XPE up and running, create a VHD with WinNTSetup and apply the boot.wim image from ISO file to VHD (Z:) with bootice. However where it says "Now we go to the BCD of the system" I run into a problem as the BCD of the current system radio button is deactivated (greyed out): see screenshot.

 

Any idea what I could be doing wrong?

 

* Afterthought: when making the usb stick with Rufus I chose GPT/UEFI, could that be the problem?

 

image.png.a8c536aa2ca00ebd6ba139fa4054dd22.png

 

audio system

 

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Quiet here...

 

So I got stuck with the VHD, but found another solution. I accept the volatility of the WinPE OS and use a portable usb stick with PureAsioPlayer, the Diretta ASIO msi and a batch file to mount a network drive. Some actions needed after every reboot, but not really a hassle -- and great sound.

 

audio system

 

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Hi Bodiebill, I assume that you will be booting from the usb drive, BEFORE this you must mount the flatoot VHD from the host, and then with "Bootice" edit the exact BCD of VHD and as indicated in the guide starting on page 16, 

I hope that with this I get it, it has not failed me and other people.
Here is a more explanatory thread:
http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/4410-windows-11-pe-audiophile-creation-guide/

 

Best regards.

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1 hour ago, samotc said:

Hi Bodiebill, I assume that you will be booting from the usb drive, BEFORE this you must mount the flatoot VHD from the host, and then with "Bootice" edit the exact BCD of VHD and as indicated in the guide starting on page 16, 

I hope that with this I get it, it has not failed me and other people.
Here is a more explanatory thread:
http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/4410-windows-11-pe-audiophile-creation-guide/

 

Best regards.

 

Thanks for this! I will try again...

 

I am already very pleased with the minimal installation I am using now (without VHD). Required actions after each reboot only take 30 sec. And I just reboot less often. A batch file start.bat mounts a network drive and disables the firewall. The latter so that I can use the versatile APlayer (Album Player) Media Renderer. For best SQ I use PureAsioPlayer (PAP) with DSD512. Both APlayer and PAP run from a portable usb stick.

 

 

audio system

 

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Here's yet another plain and simple builder for making bootable Windows PE images, a fairly straightforward option for those of us who aren't ready to go through whole bunch of options

 

http://reboot.pro/index.php?showtopic=22608

https://msfn.org/board/topic/183451-make_winpe-boot-and-make-pe-wim-file-from-x64-windows-iso/

DLdXdyP.jpg

 


 

Device drivers could be manually installed like this

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/devtest/pnputil-command-syntax

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/devtest/pnputil-examples

pnputil /add-driver device.inf /install

 

Here's an example, download a copy of HoloAudio-v5.30.0_2022-2-9.zip and extract the file HoloAudio_v5.30.0_2021-12-08_setup.exe afterwards. Then extract HoloAudio_v5.30.0_2021-12-08_setup.exe with 7-Zip etc. and we'll find everything we need inside that HoloAudio_v5.30.0_2021-12-08\W10_x64 folder, finally the driver could be added by running pnputil as follows

 

https://www.kitsunehifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/HoloAudio-v5.30.0_2022-2-9.zip

pnputil /add-driver holousbaudio.inf /install

 

We could also do something similar with drvload instead of pnputil, while we're disabling the firewall with wpeutil as shown below

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/drvload-command-line-options

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/wpeutil-command-line-options

https://forums.ivanti.com/s/question/0D54O00006ffGmqSAE/updated-windows-pe-environment-to-1909-and-briefly-worked-now-asking-for-authentication

wpeutil disablefirewall

 


 

FYI - sometimes building Windows PE images with the latest builds from Microsoft might result in even better SQ, version 23H2 from The Dev Channel (i.e. Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 25120) could be found below

 

https://sites.google.com/site/toolsdnpe/pe

https://opendirectory.luzea.de/Enthousiast/25120_IP_TB_SVF(SFX)/

https://www.deskmodder.de/blog/2022/05/19/windows-11-25120-iso-esd-deutsch-english/

https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2022/05/18/announcing-windows-11-insider-preview-build-25120/

https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/discussion-windows-11-insider-preview-build-25120-1000-pc-dev-channel-rs_prerelease.85356/

86c0535332d290a87bf584d953881aed45be85c6 *Windows11_InsiderPreview_Client_x64_en-us_25120.iso
3415025dff3ac1aeef6c4f6a0b559f22af04c5af *Windows11_InsiderPreview_EnterpriseVL_x64_en-us_25120.iso

 

BTW, there's also this "secret weapon" called Factory OS / Windows Core OS

 

https://pastebin.com/raw/Vqu15mx7

https://bbs.pcbeta.com/viewthread-1895272-1-1.html

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/4410-windows-11-pe-audiophile-creation-guide/?p=59184

Quote

The version of Windows 10 available today is an OS built on decades of legacy code, which makes competing with more modern platforms like iOS and Chrome OS incredibly tricky for Microsoft.

The Windows Core OS (WCOS) effort is attempting to build a new version of Windows 10 that scales across different device types and guts the OS of legacy components and features in favor of native UWP apps and experiences.

 

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No success so far trying to customize my Win11PE OS, so here goes:

 

How can I use XPEStartup.cmd and XPEstartup.ini that reside in the root of the USB boot stick to do this?

I tried adding the commands from a working bat file to XPEStartup.cmd and -- with changed syntax -- to XPEstartup.ini but nothing seems to change upon booting.

 

audio system

 

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I don't quite understand where it starts from:
1. Win11PE VHD in USB Pendrive? Here there is NO "bcd current system" active in BOOTICE, because there is no OS installed on the USB Flash Drive.
2. Win11PE installed on USB Pendrive ? This is the correct way to flatboot from USB, here YES "bcd current system" IS active.
Once you boot from point 2, you can follow the steps for the installation of drivers and apps indicated in the following steps of the guide
 

"If we do not want to touch the system's BCD, we have another possibility, safer if we do not have experience in these matters, it consists in applying the BOOT.WIM image on a USB Pen formatted in NTFS, or FAT32, being the PRIMARY AND ACTIVE partition, and boot from USB Pen. It must be 3.0 or 3.1, USB 2.0 is very slow. 
The steps for this are the same as for the VHD, don't forget to modify the BCD of the USB Pen as described for the BCD of the VHD. The system BCD does not need to be modified. Now we start the VHD or the USB Pen and verify that it is indeed the case, and it works. "

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27 minutes ago, samotc said:

 

I don't quite understand where it starts from:
1. Win11PE VHD in USB Pendrive? Here there is NO "bcd current system" active in BOOTICE, because there is no OS installed on the USB Flash Drive.
2. Win11PE installed on USB Pendrive ? This is the correct way to flatboot from USB, here YES "bcd current system" IS active.
Once you boot from point 2, you can follow the steps for the installation of drivers and apps indicated in the following steps of the guide
 

"If we do not want to touch the system's BCD, we have another possibility, safer if we do not have experience in these matters, it consists in applying the BOOT.WIM image on a USB Pen formatted in NTFS, or FAT32, being the PRIMARY AND ACTIVE partition, and boot from USB Pen. It must be 3.0 or 3.1, USB 2.0 is very slow. 
The steps for this are the same as for the VHD, don't forget to modify the BCD of the USB Pen as described for the BCD of the VHD. The system BCD does not need to be modified. Now we start the VHD or the USB Pen and verify that it is indeed the case, and it works. "

 

I did not do a VHD or flatboot, just the plain Win11PE on a usb stick, accepting the fact that it is not persistent over reboots. But winbuilder did install the XPEStartup files on the stick, so I assume they have a function? If yes, how can I tweak them?

 

audio system

 

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Hi Bodiebill, I am sorry to inform you that I have not needed to use these files for my purposes, so I cannot advise you.
If you really want to do a "persistent" installation of audio drivers and apps on a WinPE, you must strictly follow the steps in the guide, and DON'T FORGET that if you boot via UEFI, the BCD files should point to the path:


Edit (with BOOTICE) on the EFI\Microsoft\Boot\BCD the bootfile to point to:
\windows\system32\boot\winload.efi for UEFI booting.

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7 hours ago, samotc said:

Hi Bodiebill, I am sorry to inform you that I have not needed to use these files for my purposes, so I cannot advise you.
If you really want to do a "persistent" installation of audio drivers and apps on a WinPE, you must strictly follow the steps in the guide, and DON'T FORGET that if you boot via UEFI, the BCD files should point to the path:


Edit (with BOOTICE) on the EFI\Microsoft\Boot\BCD the bootfile to point to:
\windows\system32\boot\winload.efi for UEFI booting.

 

Thanks.

 

I have managed to get it to work by adding something like this tot the :Startup section of XPEStartup.cmd:

 

ECHO Installing Diretta ASIO driver...
msiexec.exe /i P:\DirettaASIOdriver_1_100_0.msi /qn /L*V "C:\msilog.log"
ECHO Disabling firewall...
wpeutil disablefirewall
ECHO Mounting music folder..
net use R: \\server\music /user:<username> <pwd>
ECHO Adding desktop shortcuts...

xcopy P:\folder\<shortcut to audio player settings>.lnk X:\Users\Default\Desktop

xcopy P:\folder\<shortcut to audio player>.lnk X:\Users\Default\Desktop
<etc.>
START P:\folder\<audio player>.exe

 

where P: is a portable usb stick, and all works well.

 

I have to admit that I did not succeed with VHD and bootice, but this way I can do without these and the setup is way easier.

 

audio system

 

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Hi Bodiebil, I am very glad that you solved your problem and also share it in this thread, it is a good alternative way, if you are booting from flatboot usb flash drive, the only drawback is that it does not load the PE in RAM, so the SQ is resent... you can try moving the ISO file created with Winbuilder to a USB flash drive and leaving the .WIM file as is, and adding the modifications made by you to the "XPEStartup" files on the stick, I think it will work.
Best regards

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39 minutes ago, samotc said:

you can try moving the ISO file created with Winbuilder to a USB flash drive and leaving the .WIM file as is, and adding the modifications made by you to the "XPEStartup" files on the stick, I think it will work.

 

Thanks samotc.

However I do not fully understand the above sentence.

 

My steps where:

(1) Use WinBuilder to create a minimal ISO with XPEStartup checked (as suggested in your guide)

(2) Create a bootable usb stick using rufus

(3) Modify XPEStartup.cmd -- which resides on this usb stick -- to allow for full functional booting without user intervention (unless I want to change to another player).

 

Is this different from what you suggest?

 

audio system

 

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No, it is correctly done to verify that the .wim file is correct and starts, and therefore loads WinPE in RAM, which is the proposed objective, congratulations !!

 

Have you compared SQ with other OS? Windows Server CORE 2019 in RAM or SSD, Windows 11?

 

An interesting advantage of WinPE is that, by default, it runs with fewer processes than "normal" windows, even so I advise you to put a very useful app, "ProcessHacker portable", on the USB drive, it will help you further reduce the number of processes in execution, I get to only 11 active processes, which affects SQ favorably. That is why I recommend using WinXShell instead of Explorer in the guide, as it reduces the size and the number of active processes.

 

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9 minutes ago, samotc said:

No, it is correctly done to verify that the .wim file is correct and starts, and therefore loads WinPE in RAM, which is the proposed objective, congratulations !!

 

Have you compared SQ with other OS? Windows Server CORE 2019 in RAM or SSD, Windows 11?

 

 

I compared to Linux in RAM (GentooPlayer) and Windows 11 Pro. I believe I prefer WinPE in RAM. It seems more relaxed with clearer contours. 

 

audio system

 

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34 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

I compared to Linux in RAM (GentooPlayer) and Windows 11 Pro. I believe I prefer WinPE in RAM. It seems more relaxed with clearer contours. 

did you compare to Daphile as well? I did try W10 at some point, Audio Linux and another one I cannot remember the name of right now and I reverted back to Daphile. Daphile does core management and I wonder if W PE will  bother with that sort of thing.

May also depend on whoch build you use what OS?

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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8 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

did you compare to Daphile as well? I did try W10 at some point, Audio Linux and another one I cannot remember the name of right now and I reverted back to Daphile. Daphile does core management and I wonder if W PE will  bother with that sort of thing.

May also depend on whoch build you use what OS?

 

Last time I tried Daphile was approx. 1 year ago and it could not compete with GentooPlayer in terms of SQ.

 

I am now doing some core management by setting APlayer to 1 core.

 

Previously mainly a Linux adept and very happy with wtfplay and GentooPlayer, I needed Windows to try out PureAsioPlayer. Now I no longer want to be without that player, so Windows it is.

 

For casual listening and browsing with Qobuz I am using APlayer Media Renderer:

http://vv.uka.ru/aplayer_eng.html

I just fire up the NUC with WInPE (no user intervention) and the renderer is started and recognized by JRiver and BubbleUPnP (Qobuz). Either JRiver or APlayer (in case of Qobuz) can do the upsampling/convolution. Output is DSD256 or PCM384, depending.

 

For concentrated listening I offline convolute, convert to DSD512 and play with PureAsioPlayer.

 

In  both cases the NUC functions as the Diretta host, and an RPi4 based streamer (After Dark Rosanna) as the Diretta target (GentooPlayer).

 

audio system

 

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In case others want to try something similar, here are the steps I took, where the initial ones are inspired by @samotc's valuable guide.

 

This method is surely more simple (no vhd, dism++, bootice and the like) but has some limitations as to creating a persistent setup. For this method apps are preferably portable, although quiet installation at startup is an option (as done here with the Diretta ASIO driver).

Others may want to use other apps, but this gives an indication of what is possible.

 

WinPE installation with PureAsioPlayer, APlayer Media Renderer and Diretta

  • Download the required Windows version; this will be used as the basis for the Win11PE installation
  • Download Win10XPE (incl. WinBuilder), f.i. from https://github.com/ChrisRfr/Win10XPE or https://sourceforge.net/projects/win10xpe/
  • Unzip the downloaded 7z file and start WinBuilder by running Win10XPE.exe
  • Mount the full Windows ISO
  • Make a folder ‘Win files’ and copy all folders and files from the Windows ISO into it (this will speed up WinPE ISO creation)
  • In WinBuilder, click ‘Select the Windows 10, 11 folder’ and choose the created ‘Win files’ folder
  • Go to ‘Build Core’ and under ‘Main Interface’ select only
    • Run All Programs From RAM
    • WoW64 Basic
    • Windows Apps
    • Taskbar: Combine When Taskbar Is Full
  • Deselect ‘Auto Expand To Current Folder’
  • Under ‘Additional Options’ select options as desired and set the project name (optional)
  • Under ‘Network Options’ select PENetwork options as desired
  • Note: the network is needed for Diretta communication between host and target
  • Note: there is no need for an internet browser so the IE11 options can be deselected
  • Leave ‘Build Options’ unchanged
  • Go to the ‘Apps’ section in the tree on the left and select System Tools - XPE Startup plus other desired apps
  • Note: I selected no apps except for XPE Startup
  • Create the WinPE ISO by pressing the blue Play button top right; the ISO is created in the Win10XPE folder
  • Use Rufus to burn the ISO to a usb stick (either MBR/BIOS/NTFS or GPT/UEFI/FAT32)
  • Also create a portable usb stick P: containing
  • Edit the XPEStartup.cmd that resides in the root of the WinPE usb stick file by adding in the :Startup section between
         Echo Usb Drive %UsbDrive% >> %Temp%\Startup.log
    and
         Goto:Eof:
    the following:
    ECHO Disabling firewall...
    wpeutil disablefirewall
    ECHO Installing Diretta ASIO driver...
    msiexec.exe /i p:\DirettaASIOdriver.msi /qn /L*V "C:\msilog.log"
    ECHO Adding desktop shortcuts...
    xcopy P:\APlayer\ap2config.lnk X:\Users\Default\Desktop
    xcopy P:\APlayer\APlayer.lnk X:\Users\Default\Desktop
    xcopy P:\APlayer\ap2renderer.lnk X:\Users\Default\Desktop
    xcopy P:\PAP.lnk X:\Users\Default\Desktop
    xcopy P:\PORTABLE.lnk X:\Users\Default\Desktop
    wpeutil waitfornetwork
    ECHO Mounting music network drive...
    net use R: \\<server>\music /user:<username> <pwd>
    ECHO Start renderer...
    START P:\APlayer\ap2renderer.exe
  • Note: This disables the firewall (required for the renderer), installs the Diretta ASIO driver, creates shortcuts on the desktop and starts the renderer, all well within 1 minute.
  • Note: The /qn option for the msi makes it a quiet installation without user interaction 
  • Test by booting from the WinPE usb stick
  • Note: Switching to PureAsioPlayer is done manually.

I am using a NUC -- tucked away with my fuse box -- with a tiny monitor and tiny keyboard for this.

 

image.png.dc94e9dc9b1dbac8f3a7d889dbcc6155.png

 

image.thumb.png.5bf8f63a46e508a5fca833eb946a5bf0.png

 

audio system

 

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