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Speaker Recommendation


MarkS
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I’m moving to a space that is about 20x13. I will need to set up the audio system along the long wall.  Therefore, I only have 13 feet from wall to wall with seating along the opposite wall.  Based on the need for this room to be multipurpose, I’d like the speakers to be as close to the back wall as possible and there necessarily will be “stuff” between the speakers (tv, audio components, etc.). In addition, room treatments such as bass traps or acoustical paneling will not be possible, but dsp is an option, and there will be drapes, rugs and other furnishings.

 

The other components are likely to be an integrated amplifier (e.g., Virtus SAI 30 or RI 101, Gryphon Diablo, Pilium) and a dCS Rossini dac and clock. However, I’d also consider Kii or Dutch and Dutch (at considerable savings 😂) if these type systems truly can perform to a high standard. Listening preference generally is rock (Zep, Stones, Who), pop (Steely Dan), and jazz (Blakey, Coltrane, Miles). 

 

Any thoughts on speakers to consider in the above described circumstances?  I’m open to suggestions as I’ve not had prior limitations on speaker placement.
 

Thanks in advance. 

- Mark

 

Synology DS916+ > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > Netgear switch > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > dCS Vivaldi Upsampler (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 Dual 110 Ohm AES/EBU > dCS Vivaldi DAC (David Elrod Statement Gold power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > Absolare Passion preamp (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > VTL MB-450 III (Shunyata King Cobra CX power cords) > Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker > Kaiser Kaewero Classic /JL Audio F110 (Wireworld Platinum power cord).

 

Power Conditioning: Entreq Olympus Tellus grounding (AC, preamp and dac) / Shunyata Hydra Triton + Typhoon (Shunyata Anaconda ZiTron umbilical/Shunyata King Cobra CX power cord) > Furutec GTX D-Rhodium AC outlet.

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Hi Mark, AS member @ARQuint
had reviewed the JERN Speakers from Denmark a while ago (2018) for TAS.

As these minimise box distortion and show enhanced directivity, they are quite room agnostic and easy to set up close to walls

I was actually appointed to listen to them in Paris at Thursday, because I see them in the selection for my next upgrade.

Unfortunately I can't make it, perhaps Mr. Quint could help out with some first ear impressions?

I came to notice that they have their own subwoofer in the portfolio now, impressive but expensive (to my budget).

If you have still a place in your heart for Barbapapa, they are are as close as it gets :-)

Good luck with your search, Tom

 

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The listening position at the far wall is not ideal and may not even be good, so watch out for that.

 

There are a few speakers that are specifically designed for 'close to the wall' placement and that is usually stated in the PR material. This will affect the imaging however. Many speakers, usually sealed boxes or front-ported will have reduced bass interaction close to the wall. You might also consider some sort of EQ if the bass becomes an issue.

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Since you're thinking about getting a high-end DAC with built-in volume then you should definitely consider an active speaker system such as you've already mentioned yourself; D&D and Kii.

I have been using active ATCs since 1998 with great satisfaction and I'd highly recommend a home audition.

Good luck.

Audirvana+3.0 / Qobuz Studio / Mac Mini (256GB SSD - 16GB RAM)

Lindemann Musicbook: 20 DSD, ATC EL 150ASL

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19 hours ago, MarkS said:

I’m moving to a space that is about 20x13. I will need to set up the audio system along the long wall.  Therefore, I only have 13 feet from wall to wall with seating along the opposite wall.  Based on the need for this room to be multipurpose, I’d like the speakers to be as close to the back wall as possible and there necessarily will be “stuff” between the speakers (tv, audio components, etc.). In addition, room treatments such as bass traps or acoustical paneling will not be possible, but dsp is an option, and there will be drapes, rugs and other furnishings.

 

The other components are likely to be an integrated amplifier (e.g., Virtus SAI 30 or RI 101, Gryphon Diablo, Pilium) and a dCS Rossini dac and clock. However, I’d also consider Kii or Dutch and Dutch (at considerable savings 😂) if these type systems truly can perform to a high standard. Listening preference generally is rock (Zep, Stones, Who), pop (Steely Dan), and jazz (Blakey, Coltrane, Miles). 

 

Any thoughts on speakers to consider in the above described circumstances?  I’m open to suggestions as I’ve not had prior limitations on speaker placement.
 

Thanks in advance. 

 there are few speakers that don't need at least 3 feet of space from the back wall. In your situation I'd be tempted to go for mid size speakers with a subwoofer

as larger speakers will be "in your face" and require more distance from back wall.

TAD ME-1's are very nice with or without a subwoofer and will do well closer to the back wall, manufacturer suggests 1-2 feet

 

https://tad.tokyo/medien/TAD-ME1-MicroEvolutionOne-EN_handbuch.pdf

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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Just about any speaker will give a result and quite a few speakers will give your an excellent result, but if I were spending the kind of money you have on the ‘other’ components, then I’d be looking for something special that is capable of producing unusually good results…..so firstly you’ll need to select speakers that harmonise with the room, then ancillaries that really do have ‘synergy’ with the speakers.

Given that ultimate volume may be limited, I’d look for speakers with a really fast,  exceptionally good dynamic response, which will give me good musical impact and a sense of realism even without high SPLS. Given the room/placement limitations I’d like to have good control over directionality and bass level, such that I can tune tonal balance with toe in and adjust bass independently of position, so at least a semi-active design.

 

If I add all that together I’d probably look at the Avantgarde Zero TA XD.  Horn treble and mids with 104dB sensitivity requires only a low output, low heat generating amplifier. The active subwoofer has DSP and 500W of instant power to keep pace with the horns, which are blisteringly quick and extremely dynamic.  The speakers are tolerant of room position and bass can be tuned to balance wall proximity. The speakers can take great advantage of the room, with wide placement combined with adequate toe-in, so can be both out of the way, yet properly balanced for optimal performance. A highly optimised network feed and I’m betting I could achieve very satisfying sound with quite a ‘discrete’ system 

 

https://www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/en/products/zero-serie/zero-ta-xd.html

Anyway, good luck with your endeavour 😉

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The Kiis and the D&D are good choices. They can both be placed as close as 10cm from the front wall. With the built in adjustments available in both, you can dial them in to match the room acoustics.

I'd suggest you audition one or both. They should perform admirably with the types of music you mentioned. 

With a little judicious use of DRC added in, you can get even better sound, near perfect for the room.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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47 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

+1

They are available a well as 3 way active, with a very advanced manufacture supported DSP setup (so I heard), however a decision for them would be a serious cut off the number of audiophile equipment in your room ...

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Well, Magico's I have heard, have a very narrow sweet spot and outside of that, they do not sound as good.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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Monitor Audio Silver and Gold, and even Platinum are designed to be placed within about two feet of the front wall (wall behind them). Very fleet footed speakers - and I really like how they blend lower mids and upper bass. Bass extension is excellent and articulate, too.

 

On my hardwood floors, the use of IsoAcoustics Gaia feet w/ Silver 500s yielded tube-like mids with great detail presentation and imaging.

Sum>Frankenstein: Schiit Yggdrasil A2+Shunyata Venom/PS Audio P3 Regenerator+AVOptions Tibia, W4S Remedy/Uptone LPS-1.2, Linn LP12/Hercules II/Ittok/Denon DL-103R, Naim 72/HiCap/250 DR, Tellurium Black II, Monitor Audio Silver 500, Epos, Uptone Audio ISO & EtherREGENs, Witch Hat/Audience/Silnote/ZenWave/Mapleshade/Shunyata/Transparent Audio cables/cords, and nice room w/treatment.

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Thanks so much for all of the suggestions so far. Many of these speakers are on my list to consider. I look forward to further thoughts from members here. 
 

Anyone know if Boenickie’s can be close to the wall?

- Mark

 

Synology DS916+ > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > Netgear switch > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > dCS Vivaldi Upsampler (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 Dual 110 Ohm AES/EBU > dCS Vivaldi DAC (David Elrod Statement Gold power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > Absolare Passion preamp (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > VTL MB-450 III (Shunyata King Cobra CX power cords) > Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker > Kaiser Kaewero Classic /JL Audio F110 (Wireworld Platinum power cord).

 

Power Conditioning: Entreq Olympus Tellus grounding (AC, preamp and dac) / Shunyata Hydra Triton + Typhoon (Shunyata Anaconda ZiTron umbilical/Shunyata King Cobra CX power cord) > Furutec GTX D-Rhodium AC outlet.

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The new Boenicke W22 look amazing:

 

https://boenicke-audio.ch/products/loudspeakers/w22/

 

Of course, your current Kaewero Classics are absolutely drool worthy as well!  I'd guess you would be considering the W8 or W11 due to your new room size?  This reviewer seems to suggest placement too close to the front wall is not optimal, but who knows, could be room dependent (they do have rear-firing tweeters):

 

https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/boenicke3/1.html

 

and in this review, he ends up with the speakers out in the room as well:

 

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/boenicke10/6/

 

 

Home: Melco N1A/2 | EtherRegen+Farad | UltraRendu+Farad | Denafrips Gaia | Denafrips Terminator Plus | Jeff Rowland Coherence II Series 2 pre | Blue Circle Audio BC-202 amp | Raidho XT-1 | 2 Revel Performa3 B112 subwoofers  | PS Audio DS Power Plant 12 

Home Office: IsoRegen+LPS1.2 | Denafrips Iris | Denafrips Venus 2 | Blue Circle Audio SBT preamp|  Eddie Current Zana Deux Super | Hifiman HE-1000SE | PS Audio DS Power Plant 12

Office:  Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE w/preamp module | Blue Circle Audio BC-28 amp | Raidho X-1 | REL T/5x sub

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You might consider these active speakers below running directly out from your Rossini which would allow you to skip the need for an amp or integrated unit. These things will blow your hair back and sound very good in the process.

 

Genelec 8351B "The Ones" (About $4k each)

https://www.genelec.com/8351b

 

They would work well in your room IMO, even close to the front wall. You can add one of their subs later if you felt it was needed.

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I've been impressed by Vivid speakers at shows, and I like the design philosophy of using non-resonant material (Rockport does something similar), so take that for whatever it's worth.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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I suppose it goes without saying, and since I don't buy new speakers very often, I want to encourage you to break new ones in thoroughly before you listen much.

 

I was frankly astounded at how terrible my new speakers sounded for the first 100s of hours. I wanted to cry, scream, get my money back, get my old speakers back, etc. etc. Everything sounded the same terrible. Madonna, Mozart, Metallica, Miles D - all recordings sounded like they were made in the same crappy bubble. OMG you had to be here/hear it.

 

Then after something like two weeks of playing them more or less straight (we were away and I could remote in to my Mac to control the system) 24/7, they "opened up." Wow - okay now! Then there was the saga of finding the right footers, which finally, finally let the transducers do their magic. I say "magic" for the emotional connection they now produce; the "last mile" of delivery. Or, maybe, the first mile of room tuning! ha ha

 

Of course, YMMV. Hope this helps.

Sum>Frankenstein: Schiit Yggdrasil A2+Shunyata Venom/PS Audio P3 Regenerator+AVOptions Tibia, W4S Remedy/Uptone LPS-1.2, Linn LP12/Hercules II/Ittok/Denon DL-103R, Naim 72/HiCap/250 DR, Tellurium Black II, Monitor Audio Silver 500, Epos, Uptone Audio ISO & EtherREGENs, Witch Hat/Audience/Silnote/ZenWave/Mapleshade/Shunyata/Transparent Audio cables/cords, and nice room w/treatment.

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