Jump to content

Forgive me Father.. aka confession of audio heretic..


sphinxsix
 Share

Recommended Posts


The kingdoms of experience
In the precious winds they rot
While paupers change possessions
Each one wishing for what the other has got
And the princess and the prince
Discuss what's real and what is not
It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden

 

Gates of Eden ~ Dylan

 

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too
Well, uh, outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl..

Hey!

 

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which just shows that people like listening to audio systems for different reasons - I, for one, have no interest in "nice" sound - which is probably why 'audiophile' recordings are the ones least often played by myself ... frankly, they're boring - to me 😜.

 

Guess what? The "Have you ever stood 2 or 3m from a real drum set.? Its sound is merciless, the bass drum seems to punch your stomach with its heavy fist and cymbals' piercing sound makes you wanna vomit...

Same goes for many other instruments - trumpets, saxes etc. " experience is what turns me on - the raw intensity of that impact is magic, is part of the reason why musicians love what they do.

 

A system needs to be able to do that type of stuff, without making you run from the room - if it can, then the "nice stuff" is easy peasy, and shows itself in strong contrast ...

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, fas42 said:

'audiophile' recordings are the ones least often played by myself ... frankly, they're boring - to me 😜.

Same here, fas, been repeating for years that Chesky bros is the most boring label in the world.

OTOH some of classical music on audiophile labels (RR, Telarc) is just fantastic!

 

40 minutes ago, fas42 said:

the raw intensity of that impact is magic, is part of the reason why musicians love what they do.

And sometimes get deaf.

 

42 minutes ago, fas42 said:

A system needs to be able to do that type of stuff, without making you run from the room - if it can, then the "nice stuff" is easy peasy, and shows itself in strong contrast ...

Believe me, my system is much more 'hard hitting' and merciless for the recordings than eg yours and is able to play really loud without distortion or compression (95db sensitivity speakers, my 80W amp is more than enough..).

 

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

Believe me, my system is much more 'hard hitting' and merciless for the recordings than eg yours and is able to play really loud without distortion or compression (95db sensitivity speakers, my 80W amp is more than enough..).

 

 

Depends what you mean by "merciless" 🙂 - can you give an example of something where you would use this word?

 

Yes, the speaker sensitivity and available power should give you tonnes of headroom ...

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I enjoy a good live performance as much as a good recording, the experience is different of course. Regarding ECM, I'd take a live performance over their classical recordings any day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Depends what you mean by "merciless"

I mean.. Well, instead of repeating myself I will quote myself 9_9 (scroll down if you have time)

All the qualities of the speakers describe also qualities of the whole system.

 

 

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

I mean.. Well, instead of repeating myself I will quote myself 9_9 (scroll down if you have time)

All the qualities of the speakers describe also qualities of the whole system.

 

 

 

Thanks!  ... I've read the following posts, and indeed they sound like they perform extremely well - careful construction, and easy to drive to live levels guarantees that they will reveal everything about the recording, and the driving chain - "on the bright side of reality", though, is what I pause at; IME rigs sounding too "bright" is a clue, to me, that that there is possible room for improvement; that's the circumstances where I start to investigate finer areas of a system, to see where further opimisations can be made, 😉.

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you prefer liste

15 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

For decades the live sound has been kind of Holy Grail of the audiophile world.

 

Says who? It seems to me that most audiophiles understand that there is a recording process. What were you expecting exactly? 

 

Audiophiles care about the quality of recordings and the quality of their system. Non-audiophiles care about the quality of the recordings, but are not obsessed about the quality of their systems. 

 

But I don't think anyone is under the illusion that they will recreate live sounds in their living room.if they claim the contrary, it's probably a figure of speech. 

 

That being said, a lot of audiophiles refer to individual instruments sounding "real" or "natural" when played through their system, but that is a different thing than saying the whole recording sounds live. I personally think it's a way of saying that the system does not introduce significant "distortions" vis à vis the recording. How can one tell? This has already been debated at length... 

my blog

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

The OP is spouting nonsense! There's nothing better than sitting in wet clothes, next to a sneezer and cougher, listening to the audience chat and move and rustle, and then paying an enormous amount for a drink and queueing for the rest room, while all time you could only get a seat at the back and off to one side. Live music is the best!

 

🤣🤣🤣

You didn't need to add the emojis...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the only audiophile thing at a live event is the dynamics.  I think that is very hard to reproduce at home.

 

And even though @GregWormald gave the norm, I go to live music looking for the sublime experience:

  • Jon Nakamatsu in Bass Concert Hall just after winning the Van Cliburn Gold Medal
  • Them Crooked Vultures at ACL for their 2nd? 3rd? live show
  • Civil Twilight at ACL on the big stage...who ever heard of them??
  • The first time I saw the Dandy Warhols at one of the first ACL shows...all of 20 of us at that stage
  • The encore of Eddie Vedder's Ukulele tour at Bass concert hall with Glen Hansard and the roadies composing the the band.. 
  • Joe Richardson at an Irish bar across from the Driskill after my wife's company Christmas party...

 

And a few others.  That is what live music is.

QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear R7800 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBT->iFi xDSD->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: Squeeze Commander (DroidX) & iPeng (iPad Air); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: Sony NWZ_ZX1 & ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers  Wish List: New DAC,  SBT replacement; Dream system: Linn EXACT or ATC Active or Big Tubes (KR or Nagra or Shindo or ...)

 

My goal is to use appliances and take home PC out of the chain...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, fas42 said:

"on the bright side of reality", though, is what I pause at; IME rigs sounding too "bright" is a clue, to me, that that there is possible room for improvement; that's the circumstances where I start to investigate finer areas of a system, to see where further opimisations can be made, 😉.

Judging by a review of a journalist who knows them well, they are not brighter than eg contemporary Wilsons, actually have extremely similar balance (I didn't have a chance to directly compare the two). Careful amp (mainly) and source matching (they cannot be shrill or grainy, better not bright or the speakers will mercilessly show that) plus either a big room (35sq.m+) or slightly more dumped acoustically than usual. Eventually subtly EQing curve (JRiver in my case) for some shrill/bright recordings (I actually rarely use it). 

 

7 hours ago, hopkins said:

Says who?

It would be easier to say who doesn't, and it includes this site.

 

7 hours ago, hopkins said:

But I don't think anyone is under the illusion that they will recreate live sounds in their living room.if they claim the contrary, it's probably a figure of speech. 

I don't think it's only a poetical figure in the mouth of many, rather, like I said a Holy Grail of audio :)

 

7 hours ago, hopkins said:

How can one tell? This has already been debated at length... 

That's right.

 

7 hours ago, GregWormald said:

 

🤣🤣🤣

 

6 hours ago, Rexp said:

You didn't need to add the emojis...

I (un?) fortunately can only see square shapes, I guess Chris censored them.

 

20 minutes ago, mfsoa said:

I always wondered why live, unamplified music is considered the ultimate reference when we can do so much better.

That is exactly the question I'm asking. We have at our disposal every possible microphone(s) placement, mix, all the possibilities of DSP and even the possibility of injecting tubes (forgive me Objectivist Father) into a studio gear chain, which eg Analogue Productions do and IMO the result is (probably not of the tubes alone) they make the best sounding remasters on the market. BTW I obviously understand that all those things can also add nasty stuff to the original sound or recording..

 

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

It would be easier to say who doesn't, and it includes this site.

 

Even with the best recording and best equipment it is not physically possible to reproduce the sound waves of a live orchestra through a couple of speakers in your living room. Sorry to break the bad news. 

my blog

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Even with the best recording and best equipment it is not physically possible to reproduce the sound waves of a live orchestra through a couple of speakers in your living room.

Luckily in most cases.

9_9

 

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Luckily in most cases.

9_9

 

 

I'm sorry you have such a bad experience of concert halls and clubs. I really think you are in a minority here. Sure there are concert halls and clubs with bad acoustics, there's nothing new here. There is also more to seing an artist perform live than just audio quality. In conclusion, I don't really understand your problem... 

my blog

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"HE CAME BACK FROM HIS prayer to the cat on his lap. He fed the cat, he let her go out to the moonlight, and he hid in the pages of Abraham. Like one newly circumcised, he hid himself away, he waited in the trust of healing. Faces of women appeared, and they explained themselves to him, connecting feature to character, beauty to kindness. Various families came to him and showed him all the chairs he might sit in. ‘How can I say this gently?’ he said. ‘Though I love your company, your instructions are wasted here. I will always choose the woman who carries me off, I will always sit with the family of loneliness.’ Saying many words of encouragement his visitors departed, and he entered more deeply into his hiding. He asked for his heart to be focused toward the source of mercy, and he lifted up a corner, and he moved a millimetre forward under the shadow of the tabernacle of peace. His cat came back from the moonlight, flew softly to her place on his lap, and waited for him to come back from his prayer."

 

Leonard Cohen, Book of Mercy

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, hopkins said:

I'm sorry you have such a bad experience of concert halls and clubs.

I don't, I love live music, it's just that at home it sounds better on a regular basis.

 

5 hours ago, hopkins said:

I really think you are in a minority here.

I have never minded being in minority :)

 

5 hours ago, hopkins said:

There is also more to seing an artist perform live than just audio quality

Definitely but I can hear more at home than even in the hall regarded as one with very good acoustics.

 

5 hours ago, hopkins said:

In conclusion, I don't really understand your problem... 

Do I sound as if I had a problem.? If so I must have expressed myself in a wrong way :)

Cheers!

 

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, christopher3393 said:

Leonard Cohen

One of few poets whose poems I happened to read in recent years.

Old Jikan is really silent now..

 

 

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Even with the best recording and best equipment it is not physically possible to reproduce the sound waves of a live orchestra through a couple of speakers in your living room. Sorry to break the bad news. 

 

Why do people think this is impossible? It's only sound waves, after all, and the microphones don't run and hide, when capturing the event in the cocert hall, etc. So, just reproduce what the microphones pick up - and it just falls into place ... 🙂

 

As I've said many times, what you get is that everything past the plane of the speakers is replaced by what's on the recording - so, as one example, you could be listening in a tiny room; "looking into" a massive space which could be literally a kilometer deep, if that is what the acoustics of the sound event was. It's not jarring to experience; the mind ignores the space you're listening in, and just takes in the 'projected' illusion.

 

If this doesn't happen for a recording you play, then it's because the accuracy of the playback chain you're hearing it through is not high enough - it's as simple as that ...

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most systems can't do 'intensity' ... they distort too much, are unpleasant to listen to; so someone moves over, fairly quickly, and turns the volume down ... what you have to do is evolve a rig to the point where you want to turn the volume up, even more ... this is the tricky part, of course 😉 - and many people never get to this point ...

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share



×
×
  • Create New...