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Play Classics final calibration: TRT sound 2.4a …no more R&D


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27 minutes ago, Rexp said:

@Mario MartinezWhat a great recording! Seems quite a bit better than your earlier stuff, or am I hearing things?

No, you are not "hearing things" ...It does come out very differently. 

 

It seems that previous calibrations have always been very close to that transparency point but not quite right on it. The correction we made for this new calibration is just as slight as all the previous ones, but the resulting sound is something else.

We came up with this new 2.4a calibration last July and hearing those results I thought we may have achieved our goal but I did not want to post it so quickly because I wanted to make sure.

 

That is why we are posting it now that we are sure this is it. It's our final calibration because we are convince we have hit the bullseye 😀

 

 

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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6 hours ago, firedog said:

Hi Mario-

Just had a chance to start to compare the Iberia - 2.4a to version 2.

The new one sounds great, but it's hard to compare as the dynamic range of the two versions is different.

Both subjectively and objectively. 

I used the DR meter in foobar and see a noticeable difference: DR 13 (v2.4) vs DR 15(v2) overall average, with an even bigger difference on some individual tracks.

 

How do you account for this?

 

The calibration is mainly an equalisation. The purpose of that equalisation is to correct the timbre deformations that the recording chain (Hall acoustics at pickup point, mics, etc…) may have introduced into the recorded sound.

 

Since the recording setup (Hall, pickup point, etc) is always the same we use the same calibration in all the albums.

 

But this calibration has been changing over time because we have been working at it to try to improve it.

 

Over the years we have gone through many versions of this calibration. Calibration 2.0 was developed in 2016. Every new calibration has been slightly different from its predecesor but there are quite a few calibrations between 2.0 and 2.4a.

 

The differences in the equalisation of 2.0 and 2.4a may therefore be big enough to not just produce a different timbre (which is the main purpose of the calibration) but to also affect the level of the peaks of the different recordings.

 

This is important, because those peaks across all our recordings, are the ones that determine the final volume level of the all set (except for the guitar album which is raised 6dB above that).

 

The resulting volume level of calibration 2.4a may well be 2 to 3 dB above the volume level of 2.0, but it is hard to determine exactly how much because that difference might not be evenly distributed across the frequency spectrum.

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

I am not a potential customer, so haven't requested a download,  But if the last phase of 'mastering' is indeed totally eliminated, then the result should absolutely be superior.   This would be what I have fought against since 2011, and what had damaged my interest in 'high fidelity' since the post-mastering process was started in approx the middle 1980s.   The creeping crud has been in most consumer recordings for a long time, and I have found very few truly 'undamaged' recordings from the original mix, or from even the normally perceived mastering process.

 

If the recording is indeed 'pure', that is a great thing for audiophiles who enjoy the genre being talked about here...

It is a wonderful day...

 

 

 

 

Hello John,

 

these giveaways do not have a comercial purpose. You do not have to be a customer to enjoy the offer. We are just interested in getting your feedback.😃

 

If you are curious about the result please let me know and I will be happy to send you a gift code so you can try the master in your system.

 

If you are not a classical music listener, I would still recommend getting the wind sextet (Modern times) or the piano trios (Fanny & Felix Mendelssohn chamber music), I am sure you will enjoy them. 👍

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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15 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

While I love piano music, I have no idea how to use it to evaluate a recording, honestly.  I think it might be easier for me to listen to an ensemble, so I would love a code for Harmonie du Soir chamber music album. Thank you. 

 

Maybe we should look at this from a different point of view. My statement is that our system's sound is transparent. But it would be impossible for you to evaluate its transparency by just listening to one instrument. Yes, it may sound good to you but how can you really know how "true" to the physical instrument that sound is if you really have not had the chance to listen to the real one?

 

I think a better way to evaluate the transparency of the system would be to listen to a playlist of one track of each album. Then you will be hearing all different kinds of instruments one after the other and also some of the same instruments used in different places of the stage.

 

Now, you know there is no mastering or mixing involved, so all instruments are portrayed just the way the system captured them (we did not make any corrections to any particular instrument or range of an instrument) so, if what you are hearing in the playlist sounds natural to you then my theory is that that can only be the result of a transparent recording system.

 

Here is a playlist I made with one example from each album so you can try this approach: http://www.playclassics.com/streaming?g=2898-2887-2870-2852-2839-176-2820-140-130-115-87-16-2796-27-48-75-7-2910&ps=1&pt=1&p=a-135-136&i=a&c=a&o=s&gf=m

 

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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19 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Its okay Mario, i just don't enjoy mp3.

I already uploaded the samples in Master format.

 

I am sending them now so anyone that is curious can try this approach...

 

Edit: its done. Everyone should have the album they chose plus the samples. If I left anybody out please let me know. Enjoy 👍

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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On 10/10/2021 at 5:05 PM, klassikmann said:

I made some measurements comparing calibration 2.4a with older ones with some unexpected results...

 

 

Firedog also inquired about this same issue:

 

And this was the answer: 

 

 

In oder words, this is how we usually proceed: first we apply the same equalisation to all the albums with the sole purpose of restoring the timbre quality, then we evaluate the resulting peak level of the whole set of albums (all the albums regardless of the instruments except for the guitar album) to figure out how much can we raise the volume of the whole set without affecting the dynamic range of the interpretations. This way we manage to have the same "floor level" for all the albums (except for the guitar which is 6dB higher) while retaining the full dynamic range of all the performances. 

 

This final calibration has enabled us to bring the volume level higher than previous ones. But that higher volume level is not a result of dynamic range manipulation. It is a result of a different timbre calibration (or equalisation).

 

In order to demonstrate this, I have uploaded a version of the "El Corpus en Sevilla" and the "Poulenc Sextet Allegro" with no volume adjustment just the timber calibration (or equalisation). The resulting file is 4dB lower than the 2.4a file. You can compare these two files (I have label them -4db) with their corresponding 2.4a version just by lowering 4dB on the 2.4a

 

The -4dB and 2.4a versions should produce the same dynamic range in your room while yielding different results in the DR meter software.


I am sending these files to firedog and Klassikmann, if anybody else wants to download these files please send me a PM.

 

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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May I ask you all a question about something that I do not understand from my perspective?

 

I understand that everyone on this forum (there must be thousands of people here) is interested in high fidelity audio reproduction. I also understand the relationship between better gear - more accurate reproduction. But it seems to me that most people have forgotten that reproduction is just one part of the chain. Accurately reproducing a bad recording is never going to make it into a good one.

 

My question is: have people forgotten that? Are they not aware of this?

 

I sometimes go into other threads to see what people are recommending just to listen to other recordings and compare their production work with ours.

 

Some of the things I encounter are quite astonishing and I am only talking about classical music. People praise recordings that are completely artificial. The type that seem to be most popular is the violin piano type where you could listen to the whole album to find yourself asking at the end: was there a piano playing in it? I can imagine what the pianist himself must have thought when he was fist presented with the results of that recording.

 

I do not know if the cause is a lack of ever having heard the real thing or may be people just find that artificial product more enjoyable. But there is obviously something going on and I feel that I am not getting the grip of it.

 

I strongly believe that our approach is the right one, but seeing how little repercussion it has I feel that our project may be completely offline with the general public.

 

Music lovers from classical music forums will not even try to listen to our albums because our artists are not “famous” plus they would not want to get their ears contaminated with anything other than recordings from big labels, and audiophiles (in their majority, not the 15 of you) are to busy talking about cables and gear to pay attention to the quality of the material they are going to feed their systems with.

 

What is going on? …am I missing something?

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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There is a Spanish cellist that just recorded an album with Sony. I have heard the album to check the technical aspects of the recording. It does suffer from that common effect that makes it seem as if the cello and the piano had been recorded in different spaces and then put together in the mixing table. Plus it seem they have manipulated the dynamics of both instruments separetly placing them at different floor levels with different levels of compression.

 

I would like to contact this artist to offer him the possibility of recording his next Sony project in our studios. This would be a great opportunity to introduce our sound into the market. But if I call him and tell him that we can do a better job he is just not going to believe me, and if I tell him to listen for himself he might not know what to listen for.

 

I do not want to disclose the album info here into the open, but if anyone wants to listen to it please send me a PM and I will send you a link where you can stream it. I would like to know just how obvious you think the difference is, and if you are ok with it I could use your testimonies to try to convince him.

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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On 10/20/2021 at 9:17 AM, Mario Martinez said:

When you have so many mics recording the same instrument at different distances you are setting yourself up for that temporal trap.

 

To me the worst part is how this affects the timbre/color and balance of the instrument (which is the part that is almost always ignored).

 

When you put together the sound of two mics that picked up the same instrument at different distances you are going to have phase problems that are going to affect the whole range of the instrument in different ways

 

Here are some samples I have made to try to illustrate this. They are not actual recordings; I have generated them in the computer to simulate what actually happens in the real world.

 

The purpose of these samples is to show how mixing into one track the sound of two microphones placed at different distances from an instrument artificially alters the timbre/color and balance of that instrument.

 

This sample is the sound that we are going to use as the source material, it would be the real sound of the instrument if you had it in front of you. It is an “A4”. It is composed of 5 harmonics. The color you hear is determined by the structure of its harmonics (power and inharmonicity): Instrument.mp3

 

This other sample is the sound we would get if we were to make a recording placing one mic 7.8 centimetres further away than the other. 7.8 centimetres is half the wave length of the 5th harmonic. That means that by the time the sound reaches the second microphone, the first one is going exactly the opposite direction with regards to this particular frequency. So when you put them together at the mixing table this frequency practically disappears: 7.8 cm apart.mp3

 

This would be the same thing at a distance of 13 centimetres therefore eliminating the 3rd harmonic: 13 cm apart.mp3

 

And the same thing at a distance of 39 centimetres therefore eliminating the 1st harmonic: 39 cm apart.mp3

 

As you can see, none of these recordings have been able to capture the true color of the sound of the original note. They have all altered the timbre into something else. The first one made the note much darker, the second one made it much more nasal, and the third one made if much thinner.

 

But the harm does not stop there. If you were to use the third setup (39 centimetre) to record every single note of the range of this instrument, what do you think would happen? If you are thinking that everything would sound thin then you are in for a surprise.

 

The 39 centimetre setup will cancel out the 440Hz frequency of any sound no matter where that frequency appears within the harmonic structure of the note. For some notes (like our “A4”) that means it will be cancelling the 1st harmonic (therefore sounding thin) but for others, like a “D3”, it will be the 3rd harmonic thus making it sound nasal, or the 5th one (for “F2”) making it sound dark.

 

At the end you will end up with a collage of different timbres distributed along the range of the instrument that not only are incoherent with each other but also untrue to the real color of the source.

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/17/2021 at 5:55 AM, HenryOHenry said:

Hi, Bob. I thought I made clear that I’ve only listened to the Mozart/Beethoven Wind Quintets but after your recommendation I might very well have to buy the Schumann album as well. (If Mario is reading this, maybe he can send me the gift code.)

 

Let me take this opportunity to retract my description of the Wind Quintets record as laid back. I just listened to the Mozart with the volume turned up a little more than I would normally and am not sure that “laid back” is the proper description. It could be that I need to acclimatize to the sonics. It sounds different from what I’m used to, but not sure how.

 

Hi Henry, thanks for the feedback. I sent you a code to download the "Romantic Piano" album.

 

I think you are listening to version 2.4b on both albums (the Mozart and the Schumann). After my last post on October 22nd I started trying something out. I got good results so I decided to update all our albums like we always do (...I know I said I would not update anymore)

 

This new version (2.4b) has been up and running in our servers since last November 12th. Anything downloaded on or after that date would be this new version. I think Henry is the only one that has done that. (you would know for sure because the tracks are tagged with a date and a version number)

 

I understand how "tiring" all this updating can be but, should anyone want to try it, everyone is welcome to update their albums to version 2.4b.

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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2 hours ago, klassikmann said:

@Mario Martinez

I'm interested to update Iberia to 2.4b. In particular because I (and firedog) detected considerable differences not only in terms of measurement data but also clearly audible. So I'm curious to compare the 2.4b calibration with the older ones.

 

Herbert

 

 

Yes, sure, I just sent it to you. Thanks.

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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  • 2 weeks later...

As of yesterday, all albums have been updated to versión 2.4c. The main reason of this last revision is the feedback provided by @rando concerning the soprano album.

 

I only have myself to blame for this, but I think I may have been "not paying attention" to the effect that the various calibrations have had on the voice albums because I was using the instrumental only as a reference.

 

2.4c is the result of that same analysis including both voice albums (soprano and tenor). It should be an improvement on every album (voice and instrumental)

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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  • 1 year later...
8 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I made a donation yesterday (March 13, 2023) to purchase Iberia, but I have not received a download link, nor has anyone from PlayClassics responded to my inquiry. What's going on?

 

Hello 88Keys, this is Mario from Play Classics. It should be an automated process. After you make the donation PayPal should have taken you back to the page of the album. At that point, the blue buttons on the page should read:

"TRT sound master - 24bit 96kHz flac"

"MP3 files - VBR 48kHz"

 

You can go to the page of the album now on the same computer where you made the donation and you should be able to see these buttons. Just click on the button to download whichever file you want (you can download both)

 

If for whatever reason you do not see them please let me know and I will send you a gift code so you can download the album.

 

Thanks, and sorry about the inconvenience.

Mario Martínez

Recording Engineer and Music Producer

Play Classics, classical music at its best

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