Playing with the Etherregen - Quick q

[TimF]

Background... 

So I picked up an Etherregen a while back and found some improvement versus using a wifi connection to my Auralic Femto streamer (will be replaced by an audio PC at some point). Just got a Sean Jacobs DC3 to power the Auralic and Etherregen and have seen major improvements.

 

Questions.

I'm basically looking at whether or not it's worth improving the router:

1. I wondered if it is worth running Optical from my router into the Etherregen? What options are there with this (my router does not have an optical connection as standard)?

2. The router has a very cheap wall wart psu and I'm running a cheap ethernet cable into the Etherregen. Any options worth doing here?

[davide256]

I found the best performance was by isolating all networked audio gear to the  Etheregen and running 1 port to the router purely for DHCP, wifi remote control,

and Internet streaming. Routers are  necessary  but can introduce unpredictable latency if you have to traverse them. By putting your networked gear on same switch

traffic between them will  stay local across the switch.

 

Improving the stock PS to the router is fine for reducing"misbehavior" that adds latency/jitter that matters for streamed services like Qobuz, Tidal, internet browsing

etc. Buying a better router might make more sense if the router cost under $200

[TimF]

I only have one device on the switch Dave that’s the streamer. Outside of a lpsu being useful I am unclear about your answer. My router is aftermarket and not the cheapest ones given out free. 
 

thanks Tim  

[Lobbster]

There are many fans of the Ubiquity EdgeRouter X SFP using a good quality LPSU (EdgeRouter can accept anywhere from 9-26V). Optical can be used to isolate your main network switch (if it has a SFP port) or the EtherRegen. Last time I checked, isolating the home network seemed to be preferred. Isolating the router from vibration is also recommended. Hope that helps.

[davide256]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:14 AM, TimF said:

I only have one device on the switch Dave that’s the streamer. Outside of a lpsu being useful I am unclear about your answer. My router is aftermarket and not the cheapest ones given out free. 
 

thanks Tim  

The local media server  (PC or NAS) that feeds your Auralic streamer  should be directly connected to the EtherRegen.

 

In my  case there are 3 network devices for playback  connected to EtherRegen. I run Powerline Ethernet to the distant router  for WiFi tablet controllers

and Internet Qobuz streaming.

 

NAS => streaming server (main system USB out source)  => Atom endpoint (headphone listening station USB source)

 

 

[TimF]

Hi Dave.. 

 

"The local media server  (PC or NAS) that feeds your Auralic streamer  should be directly connected to the EtherRegen." 

 

There is no PC or NAS feeding the Auralic, it is the single source running Tidal. 

Cheers, Tim

[TimF]

1 hour ago, Lobbster said:

There are many fans of the Ubiquity EdgeRouter X SFP using a good quality LPSU (EdgeRouter can accept anywhere from 9-26V). Optical can be used to isolate your main network switch (if it has a SFP port) or the EtherRegen. Last time I checked, isolating the home network seemed to be preferred. Isolating the router from vibration is also recommended. Hope that helps.

 

Ah ok so run another switch in front of my TP-Link AC2800 router? This has no optical connection so to do that I'd have to put another audio switch into the set up with optical. Is this what you are suggesting?

 

Current set up

TP-Link AC2800 (standard PSU) -> Isorregen (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3) -> Auralic Femto (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3)

 

If I am reading this correctly you are suggesting (this would not support optical)

TP-Link AC2800 (standard PSU) -> Ubiquity EdgeRouter X SFP (with high quality PSU) -> Isorregen (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3) -> Auralic Femto (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3)

 

Thanks, Tim

 

 

 

 

[Lobbster]

No, the EdgeRouter replaces the TPLink Router. What you are describing is using the EdgeRouter as a switch, which doesn't work well. I thought you were looking for another Router option. You can also check out Fiber Media Converters which can plug into your existing router and convert to optical.

 

 

[TimF]

The TPLink is a router and modem combined, it is not just a router, I use it to connect to the internet

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/dsl-modem-router/archer-vr2800/

 

My original q (hope this makes sense now!)

1. I wondered if it is worth running Optical from my router into the Etherregen? What options are there with this (my router does not have an optical connection as standard)?

 

 

[ericuco]

6 minutes ago, TimF said:

The TPLink is a router and modem combined, it is not just a router, I use it to connect to the internet

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/dsl-modem-router/archer-vr2800/

 

My original q (hope this makes sense now!)

1. I wondered if it is worth running Optical from my router into the Etherregen? What options are there with this (my router does not have an optical connection as standard)?

 

 

I have a TP-Link router that I connect via Ethernet to a Mikrotik switch which in turn connects to music system network via fiber.

 

You could also use a Sonore  opticalModule. Cheaper alternative would be a TP-Link MC220L FMC. 

[TimF]

Thanks! This makes sense. Using Sonore opticalModule (or TP-Link MC220L) to put optical into my network. Would you expect a quality improvement from this? I especially ask as I now have the Etherregen powered by an expensive power supply. I have no optical input on the Auralic so I'm basically turning the signal to optical and then back to wire. Results in:

 

TP-Link AC2800 (standard PSU) -> Sonore opticalModule -> Isorregen (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3) -> Auralic Femto (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3)

 

[Lobbster]

Sorry, in that case you can bridge the TP Link to the EdgeRouter and use it as your Router.

 

There are many ways to skin this cat.

 

 

[TimF]

4 minutes ago, Lobbster said:

Sorry, in that case you can bridge the TP Link to the EdgeRouter and use it as your Router.

There are many ways to skin this cat.

Will the EdgeRouter increase overall quality? Becomes...

 

TP-Link AC2800 (standard PSU) -> EdgeRouter -> Isorregen (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3) -> Auralic Femto (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3)

[davide256]

 

2 hours ago, TimF said:

Hi Dave.. 

 

"The local media server  (PC or NAS) that feeds your Auralic streamer  should be directly connected to the EtherRegen." 

 

There is no PC or NAS feeding the Auralic, it is the single source running Tidal. 

Cheers, Tim

From your later post you have the same router I have with an integrated ADSL modem. And the EtherRegen is basically functioning

as an electrical isolator since all traffic must traverse the router if Tidal is your only source. In your shoes I would

 

a) research any recommended network settings by Tidal and verify that they are enabled on the router

b) review user manual, section 10 1 Prioritize Internet Traffic with QoS , see if you can prioritize Internet traffic to the Etheregen/Auralic streamer

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, TimF said:

Would you expect a quality improvement from this?

Instead of utilizing optical network, you would probably achieve better results purchasing a AfterDark King clock, and use your expensive PS to power the clock. 
 

If you must go optical, opticalModule is the only solution. This is because it’s best FMC ever made. You may experience a very minor uplift in SQ. Probably not. It’s more about if you had a problem before, that optical isolation can solve. It’s being reported that a better switch (the opticalModule in your case), will in some systems help SQ.  Some going to the extreme and use two EtherRegen. And report even better SQ. 
 

A possible alternative the opticalModule is the $99 Mikrotik switch. 
Next step is this one https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in#fndtn-downloads configured as router. It may not be a straight forward task as with other routes. 

 

[Superdad]

On 9/26/2021 at 9:41 AM, TimF said:

Current set up

TP-Link AC2800 (standard PSU) -> Isorregen (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3) -> Auralic Femto (powered by Sean Jacobs DC3)

 

Hi Tim:

First I assume that in the above you meant to write EtherREGEN not ISO REGEN (the latter being our USB device).

 

Second, it would be helpful to know if you have one or two Sean Jacobs DC3 power supplies.

And if just one, is it one built with two separate output rails?

And if it does have two separate output rails, you still will want to confirm if those outputs have shared -VE/zero-Volt "grounds" or if they are fully isolated (requiring two transformer secondaries and two sets of rectifier diodes). You can easily check this with a multimeter in continuity/"beep" mode by unplugging the power supply from the wall, unplugging the DC cables from devices, and touching the meter probes to the outer barrel of each output.

If you get a beep then it is a shared "ground" power supply and by using it to power both the EtherREGEN ad the Auralic Femto (attached to the 'B' port) you are defeating the EtherREGEN's special active differential isolation moat ("ADIM").  

In that case you would get better performance by powering the EtherREGEN with its stock supply or a different LPS and leave the Auralic Femto alone on its own DC3.

 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

[Nenon]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

And if it does have two separate output rails, you still will want to confirm if those outputs have shared -VE/zero-Volt "grounds" or if they are fully isolated (requiring two transformer secondaries and two sets of rectifier diodes).

 

All Sean Jacobs power supplies are fully isolated unless specifically ordered otherwise. 

[TimF]

This has been very helpful. Thanks all. I think to summarise, at some point pick up a high end clock. Don’t bother with optical for now.