Any thoughts? JCAT XE issue w/ New Audio Computer Build

[Gator01]

Hi all, 

  Just finished my latest project last week. I wanted to build a computer prioritized for Audiophile standard sound quality, and later on I'll use it as the centerpiece of a whole house server music system. Of course, an important piece of the puzzle to the sound quality I desire would evolve around the JCAT XE. The idea was to build a high quality multi- core (12 core) machine with plenty of fast RAM (64GB @ 3200), in addition to keeping a nearly totally silent machine, well shielded, and attention to providing clean AC power. Basic components: 

 

* MSI 570X Tomahawk Motherboard
* Corsair 750 watt P.S. (RX "Gold" series.)
* PNY RAM 16GB x 4 = 64 GB running at 3200
* Ryzen 9 5900X CPU 12 core/ 24 thread.
* Updated BIOS, updated drivers
* Zotac RTX 3060 GPU (the best GPU I could find under $800!)
* Two Samsung M.2 970 EVO 1TB SSD's- One for Windows 10 Home, the other for a Linux dist. (haven't decided which one yet, but I think I prefer Arch (Manjaro) after using Ubuntu for years.)
* Two Seagate Barracuda SATA 7200 RPM 2TB (ea) drives
* APC: AC power filter
* HQ Player w/ client (for remote control) and Fidelizer
* No network yet, direct connection to Schiit Yggsdrasil DAC 2nd gen. using CHORD USB interconnect cable.

 

 I got the machine completed while I was waiting for my JCAT to arrive. It already sounded amazing, best soundstage in terms of depth, width, and definition. Best bottom end on my setup so far with my 12" SVS subs. Virtually black background. Amazing Dynamic range, especially on the one DSD Sampler I own. Now- the missing ingredient to bring it to ultra- greatness would be the JCAT. It arrived yesterday. I installed it in a spare PCIe slot, plugged in a linear, regulated 5VDC 4Amp power supply I had with my spare gear and made the appropriate cable. Tested fine. Plugged it in, fired up the machine, and I didn't see the usual two lights pop on with the Schiit Audio Yggsdrasil DAC that had been working. Checked to see if the JCat card was properly seated, opened device manager. Card was not visable. Tried a different slot, no change.Checked the BIOS for any PCI settings, nothing except for slot #1, which is the GPU, and that was working fine. Upon my research, I didn't find any known issues with the MSI PCI slots functioning. I did read that JCats haven't needed drivers since Windows 8 and before. I was up till 2AM looking for anything that might help. I took the USB cable and plugged it back into a USB 3.1 slot on the computer. The Yggsdrasil lit right up and played fine. 

   Any ideas or suggestions, hunches, anything?  I also contacted Marcin, I'm hoping he has the answer. But I figured since this card is so popular on this forum, for good reason, this MUST have happened to someone else, and its an easy fix (Hopeful) 

Thanks. Gary 
 

[kilroy]

If you don't see it in DM then the computer doesn't either. I presume you know this but not sure of your understanding, no offense meant. So I can't say specifically but I've built my own servers and also had audio card problems, and it was always either insufficient power for the card/clocks, or drivers. Unless the card is outright defective. But Windows always needs drivers I thought. You might try installing a trial generic USB driver and see if the card shows up. Other than that, don't know. I do know that one sure fire way to get Marcin's attention is to start slamming his products publicly, never fails.

[Gator01]

Hi kilroy, 

  That reference was meant to mean exactly that- the computer doesn't "see" the card, so it obviously can't access it. According to the guide enclosed with the card, and various other research, drivers were required for the JCat cards up until Windows 10. There are third party driver options, but I don't want to try them willy- nilly, most are made for specific pieces of hardware. 

  Marcin has been 100% a gentleman, his products have almost universal praise, I would never slam his products. He has already responded to me to gather a bit more info, and I should hear from him again soon. I believe it's the middle of the night over where he is, so it may be several hours. The power supply is reading 5.1VDC output on my multimeter, and I believe it can run down to 3,3 volts through the SATA input. I may try that when I get home. 

[One and a half]

I've had this problem occasionally with both Jcat usb and net versions with an external supply. Sometimes the external psu goes out and it messes with the JCAT if it's on.

 

Not to put the OP in a bad light, please check the polarity of the connection with a meter. Centre is +5V to the outer. Dumb things can happen. Not 5.6V, 4.3V but either 4.999 or 5.001 is what I would deem acceptable.

 

Switch off the PC, and pull out its AC cable.

Make sure the jumpers are set for external power source. 

Wait.

Energise the 5V supply to the JCAT.

Wait.

Connect the AC cable to the PC, boot from cold and open device manager. 

 

Both JCAT use Windows drivers to load, so no separate drivers to download.

Hope this helps. 

 

[Gator01]

Hi, 

-checked the p.s. output again, just to triple check. It's showing 5.1 vdc on my Simpson meter (no load), tip positive. The little guide that comes with the card says to remove the jumpers if your DAC doesn't require 5V from the USB out. Not knowing for sure. I pulled the jumpers. Carefully reset the card, reconnected AC, and rebooted. Still nothing. I'm assuming I would likely see the "Windows has discovered new hardware" nag,  but it's not discovering anything. Very frustrating.  I should hear back from Marcin very late tonight, I would assume. With the time difference. I'll keep searching. I checked the installation of the Realtek Controller for thr pcie slots, and it's installed and working. 

Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe a driver based on the chipset used in the card.....

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, Gator01 said:

Hi, 

-checked the p.s. output again, just to triple check. It's showing 5.1 vdc on my Simpson meter (no load), tip positive. The little guide that comes with the card says to remove the jumpers if your DAC doesn't require 5V from the USB out. Not knowing for sure. I pulled the jumpers. Carefully reset the card, reconnected AC, and rebooted. Still nothing. I'm assuming I would likely see the "Windows has discovered new hardware" nag,  but it's not discovering anything. Very frustrating.  I should hear back from Marcin very late tonight, I would assume. With the time difference. I'll keep searching. I checked the installation of the Realtek Controller for thr pcie slots, and it's installed and working. 

Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe a driver based on the chipset used in the card.....

Will wait for Marcin then, the card doesn't appear in device manager is not a good sign. Tried it in another computer?

[Gator01]

Hi,

  I've been a busy beaver the last couple of hours. I took the card out again, looked at in on my bench under my magnifier lamp. Two of the prongs (I'm not sure what they are called, the gold electrical lanes) had a silver- ish color, like a solder film on a portion of them. I got my mini screw driver and carefully , lightly scraped that portion, then cleaned the contacts with the good stuff I use on my old radios. Reinstalled, and during boot up the DAC clicked and the three lights came on, meaning I had a connection finally. Since then, I've been paying with HQ Player, it sounds so amazing that I purchased it (it isn't cheap, as you probably know) but now my tablet remote can't find it, and I can't get HQ to load songs from my ssd like it was. It's a shame, the app sounds so fabulous and I've tried a lot, yet the GUI is prehistoric and it is the most finicky app I've ever used in my life. So now I'm teased again, the DAC is ready to play music through the JCat XE, and I can't get any music to it. The HQ app just keeps going back and forth on the blue "loading" indicator, but never loads music into the app. 

 I'm   So,  so happy I got into digital hi-def files. My prehistoric Thorens turntable and my tube gear works first-time,  everytime.

 

 

 

 

 

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, Gator01 said:

Hi,

  I've been a busy beaver the last couple of hours. I took the card out again, looked at in on my bench under my magnifier lamp. Two of the prongs (I'm not sure what they are called, the gold electrical lanes) had a silver- ish color, like a solder film on a portion of them. I got my mini screw driver and carefully , lightly scraped that portion, then cleaned the contacts with the good stuff I use on my old radios. Reinstalled, and during boot up the DAC clicked and the three lights came on, meaning I had a connection finally. Since then, I've been paying with HQ Player, it sounds so amazing that I purchased it (it isn't cheap, as you probably know) but now my tablet remote can't find it, and I can't get HQ to load songs from my ssd like it was. It's a shame, the app sounds so fabulous and I've tried a lot, yet the GUI is prehistoric and it is the most finicky app I've ever used in my life. So now I'm teased again, the DAC is ready to play music through the JCat XE, and I can't get any music to it. The HQ app just keeps going back and forth on the blue "loading" indicator, but never loads music into the app. 

 I'm   So,  so happy I got into digital hi-def files. My prehistoric Thorens turntable and my tube gear works first-time,  everytime.

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, some good work there in cleaning excess crud from the Gold contacts. You should now have a new USB HUB , with four ports IIRC, since two are real and the others are phantoms. 

Can't help you HQPLAYER or the remote tablet,  but try maybe foobar2000 to prove the XE card is working OK.

[Tatomek7]

@Gator01, if you have another 5V PSU, please exchange with current one. I bought LPSU 5V 50W, with two outputs and the current is below, what is stated in specification. I can use only one 5V output and still I have impression it’s below what XE card needs. Jcat XE cards needs really excellent LPSU to show up full potential. 

[Gator01]

12 hours ago, One and a half said:

Hey, some good work there in cleaning excess crud from the Gold contacts. You should now have a new USB HUB , with four ports IIRC, since two are real and the others are phantoms. 

Can't help you HQPLAYER or the remote tablet,  but try maybe foobar2000 to prove the XE card is working OK.

  I finally dragged some music into HQ player around midnight, and it did raise the sound another notch with the JCat. I need to decide if HQ Player is worth the hassle, I can't seem to troubleshoot the inability for the tablet to suddenly lose the connection to the HQ Player. OR, install one of my favorite distros of Linux on my second M2,-- or find an app that works and sounds at least as good as HQPlayer and is built for the 21st century. 

  If abyone has any siggestions for a player/ library/ file server type app that really excels, please let me know what you are using. I've done Foobar, it sounds very good, not quite as good as HQPlayer, and I understand add-ons are required if you want to get the best out of it. That app has issues with a remote controller as well. 

  Audirvana, nice GUI, have had OK luck controlling remotely, I don't think it compares in sound quality to Foobar OR HQPlayer. 

[Gator01]

8 hours ago, Tatomek7 said:

@Gator01, if you have another 5V PSU, please exchange with current one. I bought LPSU 5V 50W, with two outputs and the current is below, what is stated in specification. I can use only one 5V output and still I have impression it’s below what XE card needs. Jcat XE cards needs really excellent LPSU to show up full potential. 

Hi Tatomek, 

  I got it going, the issue was dirty or defective contacts (2 of them.) I don't know if they are gold plated and the two bad contacts didn't hold the plating, or if it was some type of foreign substance, almost looks like an ultra thin layer of solder. But I carefully used a mild abrasive brush and somer contact cleaner, and it works well. I'm sure an $800 or $1000 power supply would probably sound better, but I looked inside this supply, it has decent quality caps, a nice torroidal transformer, and is regulated and supplies linear power, it's really not that bad.

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, Gator01 said:

  I finally dragged some music into HQ player around midnight, and it did raise the sound another notch with the JCat. I need to decide if HQ Player is worth the hassle, I can't seem to troubleshoot the inability for the tablet to suddenly lose the connection to the HQ Player. OR, install one of my favorite distros of Linux on my second M2,-- or find an app that works and sounds at least as good as HQPlayer and is built for the 21st century. 

  If abyone has any siggestions for a player/ library/ file server type app that really excels, please let me know what you are using. I've done Foobar, it sounds very good, not quite as good as HQPlayer, and I understand add-ons are required if you want to get the best out of it. That app has issues with a remote controller as well. 

  Audirvana, nice GUI, have had OK luck controlling remotely, I don't think it compares in sound quality to Foobar OR HQPlayer. 

The main reason for the suggestion to install Foobar2000 is for functionality only, just to make the XE work to the DAC. It's easy to install and add a few tracks to get going for testing. 

As far as which music player sounds best without the steep learning curve, debugging, quirk acceptance, I've yet to find such an application that satisfies to tick all the boxes.

[MarcelNL]

Give Daphile a whirl, you can test fly it from a USB stick. It's a ready cooked Linux distro with LMS (Logitech Media Server) integrated, to my ears it sounds very good, better than foobar audilinux, Euphony etc.

As a complete Linux noob I managed to get it up and running, there is not a whole lot of information other than for installation but it's user friendly enough.

[Gator01]

On 9/12/2021 at 4:32 AM, MarcelNL said:

Give Daphile a whirl, you can test fly it from a USB stick. It's a ready cooked Linux distro with LMS (Logitech Media Server) integrated, to my ears it sounds very good, better than foobar audilinux, Euphony etc.

As a complete Linux noob I managed to get it up and running, there is not a whole lot of information other than for installation but it's user friendly enough.

MarceINL, 

  Will Daphile integrate with an Arch Linux distro? I would really like to build something similar to the software I currently have on Windows (HQPlayer, Fidelize) using Linux, for its lighter weight, lower CPU hogging, etc., but I am having a hard time finding comparable software, and most of the stuff I've found requires compiling from scratch, and I don't know Linux well enough to build those packages. They seem much more difficult than a simple .tar package, which I have had occasional success with. 

[Gator01]

On 9/11/2021 at 4:27 PM, One and a half said:

The main reason for the suggestion to install Foobar2000 is for functionality only, just to make the XE work to the DAC. It's easy to install and add a few tracks to get going for testing. 

As far as which music player sounds best without the steep learning curve, debugging, quirk acceptance, I've yet to find such an application that satisfies to tick all the boxes.

 That's the dillema- I got the JCat to work, as you might of read in this thread, but I have yet to find any software with a quality GUI and amazing sound quality that doesn't require "drag and drop" functionality, and with remote functionality to select material without having to get back up to skip, repeat, or change music selections. The remote for HQPlayer is very finicky, some days it connects and some days it doesn't. Right now, it's not connecting at all. But the HQPlayer sounds so amazing, and has so much versatility with the deep down adjustments, it's my #1 choice by far. After quite a few years can't they do ANYTHING about the player funcionality?  I get flashbacks of Windows 3.1 every time I fire that app up and try to use it. Plus, I bought it and it ain't cheap.

[MarcelNL]

23 minutes ago, Gator01 said:

MarceINL, 

  Will Daphile integrate with an Arch Linux distro? I would really like to build something similar to the software I currently have on Windows (HQPlayer, Fidelize) using Linux, for its lighter weight, lower CPU hogging, etc., but I am having a hard time finding comparable software, and most of the stuff I've found requires compiling from scratch, and I don't know Linux well enough to build those packages. They seem much more difficult than a simple .tar package, which I have had occasional success with. 

As far as I am aware Daphile IS an Arch linux distribution, or contains much of it but with Logitech Media Server included, the combo is an all in one package that rationalizes CPU settings, can switch off USB ports etc, plays music from Ram if you want...I don;t think you need to add or change anything and there are some functions I never looked at.

[MarcelNL]

here; Taiko audio, they make a.o. the Extreme Audio server, speaks about their new dedicated media player software...for now they had replaced Roon etc by a player based on LMS...

Daphile sounds just great, I do not get why not more folks use it,

 

 

[mikicasellas]

On 9/10/2021 at 3:26 PM, Gator01 said:

Hi all, 

  Just finished my latest project last week. I wanted to build a computer prioritized for Audiophile standard sound quality, and later on I'll use it as the centerpiece of a whole house server music system. Of course, an important piece of the puzzle to the sound quality I desire would evolve around the JCAT XE. The idea was to build a high quality multi- core (12 core) machine with plenty of fast RAM (64GB @ 3200), in addition to keeping a nearly totally silent machine, well shielded, and attention to providing clean AC power. Basic components: 

 

* MSI 570X Tomahawk Motherboard
* Corsair 750 watt P.S. (RX "Gold" series.)
* PNY RAM 16GB x 4 = 64 GB running at 3200
* Ryzen 9 5900X CPU 12 core/ 24 thread.
* Updated BIOS, updated drivers
* Zotac RTX 3060 GPU (the best GPU I could find under $800!)
* Two Samsung M.2 970 EVO 1TB SSD's- One for Windows 10 Home, the other for a Linux dist. (haven't decided which one yet, but I think I prefer Arch (Manjaro) after using Ubuntu for years.)
* Two Seagate Barracuda SATA 7200 RPM 2TB (ea) drives
* APC: AC power filter
* HQ Player w/ client (for remote control) and Fidelizer
* No network yet, direct connection to Schiit Yggsdrasil DAC 2nd gen. using CHORD USB interconnect cable.

 

 I got the machine completed while I was waiting for my JCAT to arrive. It already sounded amazing, best soundstage in terms of depth, width, and definition. Best bottom end on my setup so far with my 12" SVS subs. Virtually black background. Amazing Dynamic range, especially on the one DSD Sampler I own. Now- the missing ingredient to bring it to ultra- greatness would be the JCAT. It arrived yesterday. I installed it in a spare PCIe slot, plugged in a linear, regulated 5VDC 4Amp power supply I had with my spare gear and made the appropriate cable. Tested fine. Plugged it in, fired up the machine, and I didn't see the usual two lights pop on with the Schiit Audio Yggsdrasil DAC that had been working. Checked to see if the JCat card was properly seated, opened device manager. Card was not visable. Tried a different slot, no change.Checked the BIOS for any PCI settings, nothing except for slot #1, which is the GPU, and that was working fine. Upon my research, I didn't find any known issues with the MSI PCI slots functioning. I did read that JCats haven't needed drivers since Windows 8 and before. I was up till 2AM looking for anything that might help. I took the USB cable and plugged it back into a USB 3.1 slot on the computer. The Yggsdrasil lit right up and played fine. 

   Any ideas or suggestions, hunches, anything?  I also contacted Marcin, I'm hoping he has the answer. But I figured since this card is so popular on this forum, for good reason, this MUST have happened to someone else, and its an easy fix (Hopeful) 

Thanks. Gary 
 

This is only my own experience:

 

If you don't have a message " USB DEVICE OVER CURRENT" it is quite possibly it is underpowered or you need the W. drivers.

 

 

 

[MarcelNL]

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

here; Taiko audio, they make a.o. the Extreme Audio server, speaks about their new dedicated media player software...for now they had replaced Roon etc by a player based on LMS...

Daphile sounds just great, I do not get why not more folks use it,

 

 

UNable to edit anyome; I forgot to paste the link; 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-402

[One and a half]

16 hours ago, Gator01 said:

. The remote for HQPlayer is very finicky, some days it connects and some days it doesn't. Right now, it's not connecting at all. 

That means it doesn't work at all. Did you try and remove IPV6 from the NICs?

[Gator01]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:02 AM, One and a half said:

That means it doesn't work at all. Did you try and remove IPV6 from the NICs?

 I think I'm getting the hang of it. Maybe it's just the learning curve. I set my music computer and my Android tablet to work just through the LAN. Maybe it's even supposed to be set up that way, I'm not that well versed with that. I had no idea the Ethernet port could be "disabled" and yet the internet still works. I turned the adapter "on." So now HQPlayer seems more dependable. Since the GUI is so horrid (IMHO) it is infinitely more usable through the remote app, which is actually very good. Now we'll see if it fires up when I get home tonight. 

  I should make another thread about this next experiment last night, as I'd like to get other opinions. In my quest to find something that sounds as great as HQPlayer (again, IMHO) I tried JPlay last night. I was horribly dissapointed. I put the settings as recommended for the best sound. It was very sharp in the high end, and a very conjested midrange. The beautiful wide open sound stage was gone, the bass was reduced although fairly clean, it sounded well, "digital." I can kind of compare the sound to the early CD's in the mid- late '80's. Although I looked at a lot of reviews, and it was rather well praised on every one I read. Strange, but just one man's opinion.  

[One and a half]

On 9/16/2021 at 7:30 AM, Gator01 said:

 I think I'm getting the hang of it. Maybe it's just the learning curve. I set my music computer and my Android tablet to work just through the LAN. Maybe it's even supposed to be set up that way, I'm not that well versed with that. I had no idea the Ethernet port could be "disabled" and yet the internet still works. I turned the adapter "on." So now HQPlayer seems more dependable. Since the GUI is so horrid (IMHO) it is infinitely more usable through the remote app, which is actually very good. Now we'll see if it fires up when I get home tonight. 

  I should make another thread about this next experiment last night, as I'd like to get other opinions. In my quest to find something that sounds as great as HQPlayer (again, IMHO) I tried JPlay last night. I was horribly dissapointed. I put the settings as recommended for the best sound. It was very sharp in the high end, and a very conjested midrange. The beautiful wide open sound stage was gone, the bass was reduced although fairly clean, it sounded well, "digital." I can kind of compare the sound to the early CD's in the mid- late '80's. Although I looked at a lot of reviews, and it was rather well praised on every one I read. Strange, but just one man's opinion.  

I wish I could compare HQPlayer with other player software, it's not plausible now. I use Ethernet direct from the Music Server PC to a Lumin renderer via EtherRegen. HQPlayer can transmit over the network to another computer with their own renderer software (NAA-right?) and from there, USB, AES3, coax etc. to a DAC locally. That means the endpoint can only be a computer or a device connected locally, not over the network. I have tried, many times, to use a PC locally to the audio system. Mainly due to failing of isolation of the crud from PC on the AC side (as well as output) PC's are banned from this topology.

 

Roon worked OK for a while, but ideological and cultural differences (as well as muffled SQ) prevents me from using it now. For the last few months trying various 'casting' server and client and control software. Still that's not settled to even 75% satisfaction, use and SQ. To reset listening enjoyment, I pop in an SACD/CD or with a bit of effort, vinyl,  and all is good again, simple, and very effective enjoyment.

 

Part of the challenge with computer audio, is getting the source to sound good, play reliably from 'go', equal to or better than spinning disc. I feel we are close, but the 80/20 rule is totally applicable.  Usability of the player software is also a prime factor, but we are at the mercy of the author's egos.

 

Sorry to hear Jplay didn't work, saved me some time, couldn't really follow the instructions on page 1... and how to apply to a rendering type system. Oh and don't install JPLAY on a Jriver system, talk about two egos fighting :) 

[AudioDoctor]

19 minutes ago, One and a half said:

HQPlayer can transmit over the network to another computer with their own renderer software (NAA-right?) and from there, USB, AES3, coax etc. to a DAC locally. That means the endpoint can only be a computer or a device connected locally, not over the network.

 

The endpoint can be a computer, a raspberry Pi, a Sonore Rendu, an Aqua LinQ, etc... all over the network. I suppose generally, those all meet the definition of a PC. It can also output to a local DAC. I know for sure HQPlayer Desktop can, and would be surprised to learn that Embedded can not.

[AudioDoctor]

You guys know that Jussi/HQPlayer has a client controller, right?

 

You know how to scan the library to let HQPlayer know where to find your music files?

 

[elan120]

3 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

You know how to scan the library to let HQPlayer know where to find your music files?

Is there a way to have HQPlayer link to services like Qobuz?