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Audio reproduction is a matter of taste?


hopkins
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11 hours ago, firedog said:

Nonsense. A distinction without a difference here. Play the two masterings back on the same system and they sound different. Which version of the same recording is more real or more accurate?

That's why your argument is junk, no matter how much you try to dress it up.

Wow, your behaviour continues to decline.

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3 hours ago, Jud said:

 

If it has no filtering, it's an A to A! 😀

 

Of course, the above A to A comment is intended in humor, but even 'clean' analog stuff is minimally filtered as described below.   Even most recent digital recordings have the same limitations:

 

Almost all older commercial/taped analog recordings from the middle 1990s and before have an HF rolloff minimum starting at about 30kHz, and is quite a few dB down at 40kHz.   That rolloff comes from a major HW (NR) component common to most of those recordings.   Somewhere, I have the curves or can recreate them.   This assumes a *perfect* tape deck.  Of course, there are a few recordings that used a different technology, but each NR technology had its' response/quality limitations,

 

Most digital material, if you see 'stuff' much above 20kHz, it isn't actually audio but is noise modulation or signal interference.   You can get 'good stuff' with actual >20kHz detail, but most recordings are junk above 21kHz.

 

The important things when using audio filters are what happens at/below 20kHz, including IMD/sampling products from above 20kHz and time delays from not-linear-phase filters.

These in-band frequency dependent time delays (e.g. group delay) are a major component for hearing a difference between linear phase and not-linear phase filters.   Also. IMD products/sampling wrap-around can also affect <20kHz.

 

Just keep your designs distortion/sample-rate clean, and use not-linear phase filters for sound effects, not for clean signal filtering.   Assuming you can accept the long fixed/stable delay associated with linear phase EQ, then just use those.  Metaphysical engineering isn't needed to get technically good audio.   Sometimes, the metaphysics helps with the subjective experience, but that kind of thing is outside of my scope.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rexp said:

Wow, your behaviour continues to decline.

Wow, no one appointed you forum Nanny.

Read carefully, I insulted his argument, not him. 

Perfectly okay to do that within the rules of the forum. And it's been done many times. Read what's written about MQA, for example.

I respectfully request you examine your own behavior  instead of mine. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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7 minutes ago, firedog said:

Wow, no one appointed you forum Nanny.

Read carefully, I insulted his argument, not him. 

Perfectly okay to do that within the rules of the forum. And it's been done many times. Read what's written about MQA, for example.

I respectfully request you examine your own behavior  instead of mine. 

Absolutely perfect. Insult arguments not people and it’s all good. 

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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16 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Absolutely perfect. Insult arguments not people and it’s all good. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Rexp said:

Wow, your behaviour continues to decline.

Note the irony: In his previous response, Rexp criticized (insulted) me personally and not my argument....

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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At least we have moved from the silly arguments that "we are not in the recording booth so we cannot judge equipment accuracy" to more technical debates about what accuracy is and whether or is posdible in audio. I'm going to take a little time to research some of the statements made here. 

my blog

 

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22 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Your point of view sucks! 

I’m totally cool with that. I also enjoy many people’s company, with whom I disagree very much. I love learning and often learn when people explain why they think what they do, rather than just what they think. 

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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12 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

We do well to realise that insulting an argument is no argument at all.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone.

 

Besides which - condoning this kind of alpha behaviour will hardly promote the culture of the site.


That link didn’t seem to address what I and @firedogwere saying. 

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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11 minutes ago, hopkins said:

At least we have moved from the silly arguments that "we are not in the recording booth so we cannot judge equipment accuracy" to more technical debates about what accuracy is and whether or is posdible in audio. I'm going to take a little time to research some of the statements made here. 

I do think its better to concentrate on those aspects of audio reproduction that can be judged objectively, such as imaging and soundstaging. 

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17 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

We do well to realise that insulting an argument is no argument at all.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone.

 

Besides which - condoning this kind of alpha behaviour will hardly promote the culture of the site.


 

from that link, “Appeal to the stone, also known as argumentum ad lapidem, is a logical fallacy that dismisses an argument as untrue or absurd. The dismissal is made by stating or reiterating that the argument is absurd, without providing further argumentation.”

 

Insulting an argument versus the person is very different from that stated above. @firedog and I aren’t suggesting that arguments are absurd just because. It’s more of an approach saying it’s cool to address someone’s arguments but not them personally. 

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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16 minutes ago, hopkins said:

At least we have moved from the silly arguments that "we are not in the recording booth so we cannot judge equipment accuracy" to more technical debates about what accuracy is and whether or is posdible in audio. I'm going to take a little time to research some of the statements made here. 

I think we have moved from those arguments, not because they are silly but because both sides think the other side’s logic is silly. 

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:


That link didn’t seem to address what I and @firedogwere saying. 

 

Happy to explain.

 

Declaring "Nonsense!" or "Junk!" is not addressing the substantial points of what someone is saying.

 

It is a social deflection. An attempt to depict a person's pov as inferior without saying why.

 

It doesn't travel in courtrooms or universities or anywhere that people do actually "win" arguments.

 

In those places it would be seen "lose it and you lose". Also disruptive as it obfuscates the superordinate function.

 

You set the rules not I. My pov is that the more people insult arguments instead of "explain why they think what they think" (= ultra good) the more the site will look socially anarchic and less inclusive.

 

The link is good. Very good. Absolutely relevant.

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Just now, Iving said:

 

Happy to explain.

 

Declaring "Nonsense!" or "Junk!" is not addressing the substantial points of what someone is saying.

 

It is a social deflection. An attempt to depict a person's pov as inferior without saying why.

 

It doesn't travel in courtrooms or universities or anywhere that people do actually "win" arguments.

 

In those places it would be seen "lose it and you lose". Also disruptive as it obfuscates the superordinate function.

 

You set the rules not I. My pov is that the more people insult arguments instead of "explain why they think what they think" (= ultra good) the more the site will look socially anarchic and less inclusive.

 

The link is good. Very good. Absolutely relevant.

We aren’t saying that. We are saying address the argument not the person. 
 

Tough to get through in this manner of forum communication :~)

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Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

We aren’t saying that. We are saying address the argument not the person. 
 

Tough to get through in this manner of forum communication :~)

 

No. You said insulting the argument is "all good".

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1 minute ago, Iving said:

 

You edited to change what you said completely.

 

Your unedited post demonstrated you didn't understand what I was saying.

 

Now my response looks mis-directed. It wasn't.

I didn’t edit anything. I mistyped the word “are” and changed it to “aren’t” in one post, is that what you’re talking about?

Founder of Audiophile Style

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